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After 5 hours...

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

After 5 hours...

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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 07:15
  #121 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
Tailwheel flying, like driving manual transmission, is it's own reward in operating pleasure. Take whatever opportunity you can to gain that experience.
Sounds fun, butI think I will wait until I have reliably good directional control at touchdown - otherwise it could get expensive!

Interesting comments about student pilots not using all the rudder range they have available, but believing that they are. I may be suffering from that syndrome, will try to really kick it about on approach to make sure I have the full feel.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 08:50
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Only one first solo.

Only one time you are alone in the air by yourself for the first time - all subsequent solos (different types etc.) remain subsequent, ie not first...

Last edited by Sam Rutherford; 3rd Jan 2019 at 09:27.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 20:56
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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A comment regarding flap use. I recommend you read the aircraft's pilots operating handbook or flight manual in the section labelled Normal Procedures and see what it says with respect to flap settings for a "normal" approach. Based on my rather sketchy memory of the 172M manual I think it will say something like: "flaps 0 degrees to 40 degrees as required". That means you may use any flap setting you want and not put the aircraft out of limits assuming you have the airspeed under control. Of course, your instructors word is LAW when it comes to operating your aircraft. Does your aircraft have the 3 position flap toggle switch (up travel, neutral and down travel) or the notched gate (a jagged slot with kinks for each flap setting)? If it is the former I fully understand your instructors motive for getting you to use 20 degrees. I am blessed with big hands so I use my right thumb to push and hold the throttle fully open while using the fingers to toggle the flaps up when doing touch and goes in the clubs 172M. A third hand would be nice to have in those situations but we make do.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 22:24
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Regarding the original poster’s comment about feeling isolated during training (#105), I think the best part of learning to fly is that you become part of a club forever. Even before finishing my PPL, I could talk to any other pilot from student to veteran, glider, fast jet, rotary, recreational, airline or whatever and still have that camaraderie and sense of belonging. It really is a very special experience. Even though I don’t fly now, I will always be a pilot- albeit a very rusty one right now!! And I am very grateful to all the instructors and other pilot friends who encouraged me to persevere and finish my training. Good luck, and enjoy every minute of it!
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 02:22
  #125 (permalink)  
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Of course, your instructors word is LAW when it comes to operating your aircraft.
You should certainly pay close attention to what your instructor tells you about flying. However, it is important to recognize that the flight manual is actually the most authoritative document about operating the aircraft. The information in the flight manual was gathered by factory or regulator test pilots, and is approved as a part of the type design. For a greater understanding of this process (and some really entertaining reading) I highly recommend "Cessna, Wings for the World" by Thompson. He was a Cessna test pilot, and the stories he relates in that book are both enlightening, and entertaining. There are many answers in there to questions most pilots have not yet thought of.

Contrary to frequent discussion, wheelplane Cessnas are easily and safely capable of a full power overshoot with full flaps extended, it's a requirement for certification. If you need to go around, even after a bounce, open the throttle, and fly the aircraft away safely. As time and workload permit, retract the flaps to the climb, then retracted settings, there's no rush. If the aircraft would not climb away with full flaps, it would not be certified. In particular, older electric flap Cessnas had a nasty habit of blowing a fuse (pre circuit breakers) when the flaps were retracted. This happened to me a couple of times, and I assure you that changing a fuse is far too high a workload to be considered during an overshoot. You just climbed away with (or nearly so) flaps, and dealt with it at a safe altitude - you did confirm the presence of spare fuses as a part of your pre flight check - right? Yes, I once did takeoff and fly home with full flaps, 'cause I did not have a replacement fuse. It was slow, but I had no problem.

Of course, fly the aircraft as stated in the flight manual, and in accordance with good training, but know that around the edges, there are still margins of safety for you - Cessnas are not fire breathers.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 11:25
  #126 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by flyinkiwi View Post
A comment regarding flap use. I recommend you read the aircraft's pilots operating handbook or flight manual in the section labelled Normal Procedures and see what it says with respect to flap settings for a "normal" approach. Based on my rather sketchy memory of the 172M manual I think it will say something like: "flaps 0 degrees to 40 degrees as required". That means you may use any flap setting you want and not put the aircraft out of limits assuming you have the airspeed under control. Of course, your instructors word is LAW when it comes to operating your aircraft. Does your aircraft have the 3 position flap toggle switch (up travel, neutral and down travel) or the notched gate (a jagged slot with kinks for each flap setting)? If it is the former I fully understand your instructors motive for getting you to use 20 degrees. I am blessed with big hands so I use my right thumb to push and hold the throttle fully open while using the fingers to toggle the flaps up when doing touch and goes in the clubs 172M. A third hand would be nice to have in those situations but we make do.


The manual says:

Wing flaps -- as desired!


It is the 3-position toggle flap selector.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 13:07
  #127 (permalink)  
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The manual says: Wing flaps -- as desired!
Well... the flight manual will say a little more than that, how much more depending upon the year of the 172.

Referring to the flight manual for a 172S (the more recent, and more rigorous):

In section 2, Limitations: Approved Takeoff Range - 0 to 10, Approved Landing range - 0 to 30. And, there are speed limitations for flaps. It actually is the law that you fly the aircraft within its limitations.
Section 3, Emergency Procedures, has a number of references to specific flap position for emergency situations.
Section 4, Normal Procedures, mentions flap position in several places, and has a paragraph devoted to flap settings.
And, Section 5, Performance, has many references to flap position, as it relates to performance (how much runway you're going to need).

So yes, the 172 has a lot of freedom as to the flap position you may select, and advice on how much for when - but it's not open ended, so you have to read and understand the flight manual to know.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 07:20
  #128 (permalink)  
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Well, I seem to have made a step improvement. Landings are now reliably OK and suddenly I seem to have the thinking time and the view of the runway that I need. Use of the rudders is still not optimal - but I am hopeful that will come now. In fact now, I am heartily sick of circuits and think I would benefit from doing something different.

I don't know what changed, I am not aware of doing anything particularly different, I just seem to be more in control. However, one thing that I did which I am sure helped a great deal, was to very deliberately take time to prepare for the next session - go over check lists, and think through the process. Last year I was racing to and from lessons and not doing much in between. This may sound strange, but I am used to finding stuff coming easily to me and always being 'good' at whatever I try! Admitting that I need to put some serious work, thought and prep into flying is my 2019 resolution! I know that sounds arrogant, but I think that I just was not allocating sufficient 'life bandwidth' to making this happen, and hoping to get through by my natural genius !
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 11:28
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Been reading this thread for a while and some very good information. I'm starting my NPPL (M) lessons in just over a week and suffice it to say I'm very excited. I've been studying the theory for over a month with the aim of getting a head start.

OP, good luck with your imminent solo!
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