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Pathetic (ii)

Old 21st Feb 2018, 17:53
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Pathetic (ii)

As predicted, the "Pathetic" thread didn't live long - disappeared while I was answering to it. As usual, with no explanation in the least, let alone a word of apology. So be it - bye bye for me too.

Now let's see how many seconds this one will stand.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 18:14
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You're playing in another chaps sandpit. His sand, his rules. You could always start your own forum.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 18:19
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Okay, I'll reply to this one (though another mod may choose to delete it!).

I am accountable for the deletion of both threads which have triggered this discussion. I have carried out the instructions provided to me, using my judgement. My first criteria being: Do I want to read it?

Accountable? Yes, often, and in the case of the earlier thread, I volunteered a PM to the thread starter, saying that I had to delete the thread, and why. It seems others have assumed that I had not done that, and acted from behind a veil of anonymity. Nope, posters can PM me if they have a concern - I have never not replied a PM, with a considered response.

I have no personal agenda here, I'm just doing what I said I would, and helping PPRuNe to be a place where readers can read about aviation in as positive, and helpful a light as possible. I'm just a regular person, not being paid to do this - but I know what the guidelines are, and I know what I don't like reading.

Posters are welcome to post, but not required to do so. If you choose to, please post things which attempt to not offend anyone.

As mentioned by a poster, those who choose to not post are, of course, free to follow that course of action. If the motivation to post was to contribute and disseminate wisdom, it will be the readers who will loose most from the withholding of a wise and learned post. PPRuNe cares, but will not reduce standards in trade for posts.

I will leave this thread open for polite posts, should anyone wish to make a comment, from which we can do better. Another mod could choose to delete this thread, and I'll respect that if it happens. I could choose to lock the thread, if posters are rude or unconstructive.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 19:05
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I did not receive the courtesy of a PM when my posts were deleted. And I had no idea who had deleted them, so how could I PM the deleter with my concerns?

Some posters seem to be able to put down others on here, with a robust rebuttal not allowed (and robust was certainly deserved in the case of the condescending one who posted false innuendo against me). My reward for simply complaining of 'no right of reply' when my rebuttal was just deleted without explanation? A ban!

This is unacceptable.

I will continue to read PPRuNe for the posters who are worth a read. My own contributions to threads have ceased. Whether that bothers you or not I frankly don't care. I've had enough.
Shaggy Sheep Driver is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2018, 19:11
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Now SSD, not to blow smoke up your ass, but Iíve had some good advice and pointers from you over the years and hope youíll reconsider.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 19:34
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@Pilot DAR: one of the comments I tried to post in the earlier thread, but could not because it disappeared while I was typing, was my appreciation for the very correct and polite behaviour of one and exactly one moderator. No need for details, I hope and trust. Please keep up the good work, and I hope your example may inspire your fellow-moderators. For the good of all concerned.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 19:51
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Ditto on that Jan. And while weíve got PDís attention may I enquire as to how the recovery is coming along ? I trust youíre on the mend.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 21:06
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
Accountable? Yes, often, and in the case of the earlier thread, I volunteered a PM to the thread starter, saying that I had to delete the thread, and why. It seems others have assumed that I had not done that, and acted from behind a veil of anonymity. Nope, posters can PM me if they have a concern - I have never not replied a PM, with a considered response.
That works both ways.

We, the punters, don't know that it was you as a particular Moderator were responsible for deleting a thread. In other words, there is a 'veil of anonymity' at your end also.

Equally, those posters in a thread who were not the thread starter, and hence did not receive a 'courtesy' PM from you, will have had no explanation as to the reason their posts were summarily discarded.

PPRuNe does have a reputation over several years for heavy-handed and often arbitrary moderation. I don't think your post helps with that.

I suggest that is illuminating that I think the above is fair comment, based on considerable experience - yet I also now suspect that the likelihood of me receiving a ban is pretty high.
hoodie is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2018, 23:09
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Yes, I agree that it's not possible to reply or PM each poster when something they were involved in has had to be deleted. Perhaps theirs was the shining post of quality on a poor thread - sorry, stuff happens. No, SSD did not get a PM from me, 'cause frankly, "pathetic" and then a flaming post falls below my threshold of enthusiasm.

It is uncommon for comment on deletions (and frankly, I may be "guided" in the background that I should not have indulged this). But, I can empathize with feeling jilted, when a post you made, which you genuinely thought was good, is deleted, it's even happened to me!

Correct, posters can't know which mod deleted something. If I'm politely asked, and I did, I'll "man up". If it was not me, I'll stand quietly with the other mods as a team. Sorry, that's the way the system works.

But, all in all... people, it's just comments on the internet! Can we not be nice to each other? You're not so important, that what you think you'd like to say must surpass all other's comments for importance. Or, maybe it is... and I get it wrong and delete it, life will go on! I say that as an expert in life going on - as P84 alludes, I spent 100 days in hospital, after the PF had a bad day last summer, and we crashed. Being able to walk again is nice, and two weeks ago, I borrowed a 172 and an instructor, and satisfied myself that indeed, I can still fly - happily, well. There's more recovery to do yet though...

So, I have time to keep an eye on the posts. Let's post as though we would like the new readers to think that we're proud of aviation, and generally support our fellow pilots... okay?
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 23:29
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PD, a good post! I can fully sympathise with your PoV. As a moderator on a relatively small car forum a few years ago I was subjected to a hate campaign on there, on FB and in person after I was wrongly accused of banning one individual for continually and defiantly breaking the forum rules. Although I deleted some offending posts I didn't ban him, I didn't actually have the authority to do so. The forum owner and administrator applied the ban after warning said individual, but the hate campaign against myself continued. The forum was eventually closed down by the owner because it became too troublesome for him to administer.
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 01:17
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Good to hear you're on the up DAR.
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 08:32
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Thank you for taking the time to give such a considered response, Pilot DAR. It is much appreciated.

It's the arbitrary unexplained bannings from some anonymous Mods that get backs up; I think most will appreciate why threads/posts sometimes disappear even if we don't always like it.

I too am very pleased to hear things are improving with you. ATB.
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 18:48
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An internet forum is not democratic, it is a private medieval principality.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 17:33
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And may I express my appreciation for this thread _not_ having been removed.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 19:25
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I missed the original thread, and am completely mystified, as, I suspect, many others will be.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 20:03
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PPRuNe does have a reputation over several years for heavy-handed and often arbitrary moderation. I don't think your post helps with that.
You're playing in another chaps sandpit. His sand, his rules. You could always start your own forum.

Both very valid points.
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 10:32
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Originally Posted by Maoraigh1 View Post
I missed the original thread, and am completely mystified, as, I suspect, many others will be.
Me too, though can try and guess!
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 14:09
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Firstly, can I thank the Mods for allowing this thread to live? I think it is only healthy for the members of a forum such as this to engage with the Mods about what is, and is not, acceptable. The following is written in a positive spirit and is not just me having a whinge.

Whilst acknowledging the right of the Mods to control content in accordance with the rules: I agree with a previous poster that simply having a post, or even an entire thread, removed without explanation is wrong in a society founded on the principle of freedom of expression, regardless of who owns the sand pit.

As I say: I accept entirely that there are circumstances in which content needs to be controlled. As an example, there was a thread running on another forum that was in danger of crossing a legal boundary. The Mods there removed all of its content, put in its place a single short post explaining what had been done and why, and then locked the thread.

IMHO, and in the words of the immortal Mr Punch: ďThatís the way to do it!Ē
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 16:17
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People are indeed free to express themselves, though it is not the duty of private media to enable that expression. Freedom of expression in its most basic form is for street corners. Poster here have agreed that the content may be controlled.

Sometimes I will PM a poster or thread starter to explain why I have removed a post or thread. However, that is a courtesy, not a promise, the task could be too large, or maybe I just don't want the argument. Certainly, the thread is not going to be the place where a mod will explain the deletion of a post, that will just lead to a vortex of emotion! The fact that I might PM a poster is by no means a commitment that this is PPRuNe policy, or other mods might do it, it's just me trying to be nice.

Really, my first and primary criteria in considering a post for deletion is: Would I read that post, in context, to my 14 year old daughter? If it's rude/unkind/racist etc, probably not! After a life changing accident, I easily remind myself that we contribute here to be a part of a nice group, so why not be nice!
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 17:08
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People are indeed free to express themselves, though it is not the duty of private media to enable that expression
You are right: it is not ďa dutyĒ. But having facilitated the expression, the extent to which it is then restricted should be minimised.

Sometimes I will PM a poster or thread starter to explain why I have removed a post or thread. However, that is a courtesy, not a promise, the task could be too large, or maybe I just don't want the argument.
I donít see how the task can be too large. Also, whilst not a promise, it should be only in exceptional circumstances - and I canít think what they might be - that such explanation is withheld. If the post is inappropriate, it will be obvious to everybody. With respect: if you arenít prepared to justify the decision (i.e. donít want the argument!) then I would respectfully suggest letting someone who is prepared to do that do the job as moderator.

Certainly, the thread is not going to be the place where a mod will explain the deletion of a post
I agree. In that case, the poster should have the courtesy of an explanation by PM. If an entire thread is deleted, then en explanation under the original thread title should be given.

As ever: these are intended to be positive suggestions and not confrontational arguments.
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