Requirements for logging P1 hours on a plane that is not your usual school?
Admittedly I don't know the finer points of aircraft operations in the UK but I cannot help wondering this situation has been over thought.
So far as any near misses/incidents/accidents go I would think the CAA are only concerned with whether or not the P in C was appropriately qualified to be the P in C. They're unlikely to get involved in the contractual details of the hireage.
However the real issue is that the aircraft owner/operator (by operator I mean school or aero club) must know who is flying their aircraft. Much in the same way if you hire a rental car, the rental company wants to know who will be driving it. Member or not they will want to know. I'd imagine they will have a process for authorising a non member to fly their machines. At the very least a check circuit or two.
I'd imagine any unauthorised flight by a member or non member would be breaking the school/club rules and put the insurance at risk and in the event of an accident will likely be personally liable
In my opinion the lack of approval doesn't disqualify them logging the hours. Whether or not they wish to create evidence they broke the school or club rules is another matter.
I'd say any club member who let a non member fly without authorisation is putting themselves at risk as well.
So far as any near misses/incidents/accidents go I would think the CAA are only concerned with whether or not the P in C was appropriately qualified to be the P in C. They're unlikely to get involved in the contractual details of the hireage.
However the real issue is that the aircraft owner/operator (by operator I mean school or aero club) must know who is flying their aircraft. Much in the same way if you hire a rental car, the rental company wants to know who will be driving it. Member or not they will want to know. I'd imagine they will have a process for authorising a non member to fly their machines. At the very least a check circuit or two.
I'd imagine any unauthorised flight by a member or non member would be breaking the school/club rules and put the insurance at risk and in the event of an accident will likely be personally liable
In my opinion the lack of approval doesn't disqualify them logging the hours. Whether or not they wish to create evidence they broke the school or club rules is another matter.
I'd say any club member who let a non member fly without authorisation is putting themselves at risk as well.
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Admittedly I don't know the finer points of aircraft operations in the UK but I cannot help wondering this situation has been over thought.
So far as any near misses/incidents/accidents go I would think the CAA are only concerned with whether or not the P in C was appropriately qualified to be the P in C. They're unlikely to get involved in the contractual details of the hireage.
However the real issue is that the aircraft owner/operator (by operator I mean school or aero club) must know who is flying their aircraft. Much in the same way if you hire a rental car, the rental company wants to know who will be driving it. Member or not they will want to know. I'd imagine they will have a process for authorising a non member to fly their machines. At the very least a check circuit or two.
I'd imagine any unauthorised flight by a member or non member would be breaking the school/club rules and put the insurance at risk and in the event of an accident will likely be personally liable
In my opinion the lack of approval doesn't disqualify them logging the hours. Whether or not they wish to create evidence they broke the school or club rules is another matter.
I'd say any club member who let a non member fly without authorisation is putting themselves at risk as well.
So far as any near misses/incidents/accidents go I would think the CAA are only concerned with whether or not the P in C was appropriately qualified to be the P in C. They're unlikely to get involved in the contractual details of the hireage.
However the real issue is that the aircraft owner/operator (by operator I mean school or aero club) must know who is flying their aircraft. Much in the same way if you hire a rental car, the rental company wants to know who will be driving it. Member or not they will want to know. I'd imagine they will have a process for authorising a non member to fly their machines. At the very least a check circuit or two.
I'd imagine any unauthorised flight by a member or non member would be breaking the school/club rules and put the insurance at risk and in the event of an accident will likely be personally liable
In my opinion the lack of approval doesn't disqualify them logging the hours. Whether or not they wish to create evidence they broke the school or club rules is another matter.
I'd say any club member who let a non member fly without authorisation is putting themselves at risk as well.
Apart from anything else, you are effectively 'fiddling' one or other club out of much need membership fees and check flight(s).
If this is a regular thing, both join both clubs. You may be able to come to an agreement re the need for a check flight if you can show you have been flying the same type at the other club. In my experience, some clubs are flexible re the time needed between flights of different types if the member is known to them and is reliable, competent and safe.
If this is a regular thing, both join both clubs. You may be able to come to an agreement re the need for a check flight if you can show you have been flying the same type at the other club. In my experience, some clubs are flexible re the time needed between flights of different types if the member is known to them and is reliable, competent and safe.
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It has already been established that the hiring circumstances have no relevance to being P1 or the logging of P1 it's the potential financial/moral etc problems of doing what has been suggested.
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Scoobster
Purely in the interest of widening your "aviation" knowledge....
The world famous Parker Pen company produced a fountain pen called the P-51.
There is also a WW2 fighter called the P-51 Mustang - a fraudster from times past allegedly inflated his yearly hours by simply writing in P-51 flights that never took place
Hence the phrase..........
Purely in the interest of widening your "aviation" knowledge....
The world famous Parker Pen company produced a fountain pen called the P-51.
There is also a WW2 fighter called the P-51 Mustang - a fraudster from times past allegedly inflated his yearly hours by simply writing in P-51 flights that never took place
Hence the phrase..........
Not heard it used in that context though so cheers
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So, within the rules, but taking the piss slightly, I rented an aircraft P1 on the basis of having flown elsewhere within the required period, with the needed instructor's signature, entirely within the rules ... but the flying elsewhere had been in a floatplane. And you don't get much crosswind practice in a floatplane, unless you choose to make it a specific exercise, as the whole point is to suss out where the wind is coming from and land into wind. So I did make rather a mess of the resulting crosswind landing, not having flown a landplane for quite some time.
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I personally find that the membership fees are often not high enough to warrant not becoming a member if you're planning on flying with friends on occasions and want to share legs.
I also personally find that check flights are never wasted! Yesterday I did a check flight in a plane very similar to the one I normally fly, but it had slightly different start procedures, and when I got to the PFL, having not done one for over 3 months in this type of plane, it was really good to be reminded of a few tricks that you can't use on the slower planes I have been flying during the summer.
Every flight is an opportunity to learn and become safer - why not take the hour checkout? If nothing else it'll make sure you're comfortable in their plane!
I also personally find that check flights are never wasted! Yesterday I did a check flight in a plane very similar to the one I normally fly, but it had slightly different start procedures, and when I got to the PFL, having not done one for over 3 months in this type of plane, it was really good to be reminded of a few tricks that you can't use on the slower planes I have been flying during the summer.
Every flight is an opportunity to learn and become safer - why not take the hour checkout? If nothing else it'll make sure you're comfortable in their plane!
