CT's authority to police pilots
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CT's authority to police pilots
When the cross wind is pushing up against the aircrafts demonstrated limits,my capabilities/comfort level or gets close to maximum of the rudders authority to hold aligned in a side slip I sometimes use the width of the runway to reduce the crosswind component by 10 or 20 degrees depending on the runway width on take off and landing. I've always wondered how the tower at controlled fields view pilots using such techniques or if they even care if pilots turn 27 into "25" for TO & landing. Any ATC folks on here got an opinion.
Last edited by piperboy84; 1st Oct 2017 at 11:43.
Wouldn't bother me - if you're cleared to land or take-off, the runway's yours. How you use it is up to you. Saw this technique used several time on Tiree for arrival & departure. Just don't break any edge lights ! ;-)
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I once landed pretty much across the main runway at my local, controlled, airfield in a horrendous crosswind. Mind you, it was 'out of hours', I was the only idiot flying and if there was anyone in the tower watching they were decent enough to say nothing.
In any case I was prepared to accept any sort of bollocking after the event as long as I was safely on the ground to take the bollocking.
In any case I was prepared to accept any sort of bollocking after the event as long as I was safely on the ground to take the bollocking.
No problem; done it myself in microlights many times.
Controllers and AFISOs will be aware how strong the crosswind is and in my opinion, shouldn't object to the practice; we had one pilot at Farnborough who used to do it in a Canberra, but unfortunately there'll still be the odd one or two controllers/FISOs usually those with no flying experience who might still object.
Controllers and AFISOs will be aware how strong the crosswind is and in my opinion, shouldn't object to the practice; we had one pilot at Farnborough who used to do it in a Canberra, but unfortunately there'll still be the odd one or two controllers/FISOs usually those with no flying experience who might still object.
That reminds me when I collected one of Her Majesty's finest SA Bulldogs from Prestwick a few years ago (well probably 45 actually). I asked what the cross wind limit was. They told me that was not one. They had flown it in 45 knots X & suggested that if it was more, then as the short field landing VAT was 55 knots, I should land across the runway at right angles giving me a ground speed of 10 knots. I also remember landing a Chippy once in 50 kts, a vertical landing as it turned out, but taxying was out of the question until the wing-walkers turned up. Even then, I needed 2 on each wing.
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Getting accustomed to pulling up gliders with my 150 hp Supercub, of course I thought I knew it all....and was unhappy to see a more experienced tug pilot landing in a very cross wind indeed....with MY AEROPLANE!
I suggested he drop the tow rope first and then please land on the intowind runway. He said IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOW I DO IT YOU CAN FLY IT YOURSELF!!
unplugged his headset and stomped off.
So I had to do the next takeoff. Pulled up the K21 glider, dropped the rope in a quiet corner, and landed on the into wind runway. Only the wind had got up so much I didn't dare to taxy back, but just sat there like a lemon until help arrived and they pushed it backwards into the hangar. Any more launches that day had to be winch launches.
I suggested he drop the tow rope first and then please land on the intowind runway. He said IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOW I DO IT YOU CAN FLY IT YOURSELF!!
unplugged his headset and stomped off.
So I had to do the next takeoff. Pulled up the K21 glider, dropped the rope in a quiet corner, and landed on the into wind runway. Only the wind had got up so much I didn't dare to taxy back, but just sat there like a lemon until help arrived and they pushed it backwards into the hangar. Any more launches that day had to be winch launches.
with MY AEROPLANE!
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thank gawd they don't police what you do with a runway with an aircraft.
Blues and two's as you pull into stand.
"You the PIC?"
"yep"
"your nicked for sexual assault of a runway"
Blues and two's as you pull into stand.
"You the PIC?"
"yep"
"your nicked for sexual assault of a runway"
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As the OP, "police" was probably not the best choice of title, what I was getting at was when the tower clear you to land on 27, do they mean 27 and not you making up your own heading for landing and if you or the plane aren't capable of doing what you're cleared for then you need to piss off somewhere else. Cartmans opinion of when your cleared to land "it's your runway to use how you want" clarifies the issue for me.
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ATC have no knowledge about what your operating limits are.
For most light aircraft its a maximum demonstrated crosswind that's in the book not a limit.
For commercial stuff there are aircraft restrictions, crew restrictions, performance restrictions.
These may change with country of registration, country of AoC, maint state etc etc.
its not really its your runway which allows you to do what you like, its more ATC have no knowledge or legislation to say anything. I will qualify that to civilian controllers and runways in the UK. The rules are slightly different with mil fields in the UK. But all they will do is submit a MOR on you and when it hits the CAA it will get logged for statistical purposes and you will hear nothing about it.
Once your outside the Uk you will have to check the local AIP.
For most light aircraft its a maximum demonstrated crosswind that's in the book not a limit.
For commercial stuff there are aircraft restrictions, crew restrictions, performance restrictions.
These may change with country of registration, country of AoC, maint state etc etc.
its not really its your runway which allows you to do what you like, its more ATC have no knowledge or legislation to say anything. I will qualify that to civilian controllers and runways in the UK. The rules are slightly different with mil fields in the UK. But all they will do is submit a MOR on you and when it hits the CAA it will get logged for statistical purposes and you will hear nothing about it.
Once your outside the Uk you will have to check the local AIP.
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Piperboy,
Have you not watched Kev teaching his gyrocopter students the intersection landing?
Much less inconvenient than having to recover an aircraft after a c***ed up cross wind landing.
BTW the crop has now been cut for you.
Have you not watched Kev teaching his gyrocopter students the intersection landing?
Much less inconvenient than having to recover an aircraft after a c***ed up cross wind landing.
BTW the crop has now been cut for you.
submit a MOR on you
- When ATC file a report it is for safety reasons, and it is such a pain to file these days that it is likely to be something they feel strongly about.
- I have never know a report to be filed on a pilot (at a push, I can imagine some Alleged Breach of Air Navigation Legislation scenarios) it will be filed on an event. We're just not there to get involved in whether someone is appropriately qualified or flying within the limits of the aircraft. If a pilot seems in some way iffy, then generally some authority other than the CAA would be first port of call.
- If it is an MOR, then it is mandatory.
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The normal one from the Mil ATc is for landing under military minimums.
Thier mins were something like 750m and the civi's were 550m for the ILS.
Every time you landed less than 750m they would submit one.
It was a while ago so it might have stopped now. its been years since I have flown into that field.
Thier mins were something like 750m and the civi's were 550m for the ILS.
Every time you landed less than 750m they would submit one.
It was a while ago so it might have stopped now. its been years since I have flown into that field.
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Agree with the posters here. It's captains discretion.
However, if I were to do anything non-standard, and it's not too much bother, I would inform ATC beforehand. I can just visualise their hand moving towards that big red "crash alarm" button otherwise.
The people in the tower are human too. I would not want them to worry about me unnecessary.
However, if I were to do anything non-standard, and it's not too much bother, I would inform ATC beforehand. I can just visualise their hand moving towards that big red "crash alarm" button otherwise.
The people in the tower are human too. I would not want them to worry about me unnecessary.
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BTW the crop has now been cut for you.
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Usually you get a "clear to land" and they are not interested in what exactly you do, it is your own responsibility. Even more, if you cut corners to change landing vector, don't tell in the radio if it is controlled or RMZ. You may face stupid questioning afterwards.
But, some towers are more relaxed than others. Just a few days ago we had quite some crosswind and my home field asked me on approach whether I would prefer to use the perpendicular taxiway for landing instead ... no problem, if it is a standard procedure at the airport.
But, some towers are more relaxed than others. Just a few days ago we had quite some crosswind and my home field asked me on approach whether I would prefer to use the perpendicular taxiway for landing instead ... no problem, if it is a standard procedure at the airport.
I suspect that if you landed at somewhere like Liverpool, lined up with one of their Rapid Exit Taxiways, you might have to explain which part of your Landing was 'Landing' and which part was 'Taxiing'.
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