Expert in the Right Seat
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Expert in the Right Seat
Good day!
I recently flew my first XC as PIC since getting my PPL. Actually, it was my first time away from my home aerodrome in this country so I brought along an expeiranced pilot "buff". Neadless to say, I had a torterous flight. It starts off with small things, "do you know why the fuel is blue?", "what is the maximum oil quantity she can hold?"...I really don't give a hoot! I just want an pleasure flight.
En-route...where are ya going? To the first waypoint....but you should be flying north....no, that's it ahead of us...oh, I haven't flown here for a long time.
Engine settings...2400RPM, further questioning on why I don't operate at 2500RPM - errrh!!!
Landing - "ok now, I want you to fly her in with power on until touch down", "you're not my instructor, relax", "are we the expert now??"
Has anyone expeiranced this wannbe expert phoenomehna before?
Cheeers
VT
I recently flew my first XC as PIC since getting my PPL. Actually, it was my first time away from my home aerodrome in this country so I brought along an expeiranced pilot "buff". Neadless to say, I had a torterous flight. It starts off with small things, "do you know why the fuel is blue?", "what is the maximum oil quantity she can hold?"...I really don't give a hoot! I just want an pleasure flight.
En-route...where are ya going? To the first waypoint....but you should be flying north....no, that's it ahead of us...oh, I haven't flown here for a long time.
Engine settings...2400RPM, further questioning on why I don't operate at 2500RPM - errrh!!!
Landing - "ok now, I want you to fly her in with power on until touch down", "you're not my instructor, relax", "are we the expert now??"
Has anyone expeiranced this wannbe expert phoenomehna before?
Cheeers
VT
Join Date: Jul 2001
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They say a PPL is a license to learn - I think you learnt something on that flight 
.
But seriously, I've yet to fly with another pilot. I've arranged to fly with another member of the group I share an aircraft in the near future. I'm inexperienced and he is out of practise, so I'm hoping that we shall be complimentary to each other and not as annoying as your 'co-pilot' was.
There was an "I learned about Flying..." article in Pilot Magazine awhile aback about a Pilot who took a some other Pilots up in the air with him, and had problems. I forget the nature of the problems but it's easy to see how another Pilot could very easily interfer with the safe progress of a flight from an inexperienced Pilot's point of view. I think you were perhaps lucky you only had your enjoyment of the flight ruined.
Best wishes in finding a more suitable passenger.
. But seriously, I've yet to fly with another pilot. I've arranged to fly with another member of the group I share an aircraft in the near future. I'm inexperienced and he is out of practise, so I'm hoping that we shall be complimentary to each other and not as annoying as your 'co-pilot' was.
There was an "I learned about Flying..." article in Pilot Magazine awhile aback about a Pilot who took a some other Pilots up in the air with him, and had problems. I forget the nature of the problems but it's easy to see how another Pilot could very easily interfer with the safe progress of a flight from an inexperienced Pilot's point of view. I think you were perhaps lucky you only had your enjoyment of the flight ruined.
Best wishes in finding a more suitable passenger.
Sounds like a bit of an ar$e to me
I've rarely flown with a pilot as a passenger but when I have they had the good grace not to be critical of my standards / methods
Good luck with future passengers. Try doing what I do, take a 4 year old flying with you. They just enjoy the various sensations of flying
I've rarely flown with a pilot as a passenger but when I have they had the good grace not to be critical of my standards / methods
Good luck with future passengers. Try doing what I do, take a 4 year old flying with you. They just enjoy the various sensations of flying
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VORTIME.
eeek. Sorry to hear about that flight....youd be amazed at how many PPLs/CPLs believe they are an instructor..
Did you know the guy on the ground much before hand? if not my recommendation is get to know someone a little before flying with them - or get a recommendation from someone who has flown with them...ask people what they are like. Was there a large age difference? Just curious.
Give a captains brief on departure - make sure they KNOW you are PIC and have the controls and they should NOT touch anything unless asked to do so.
More importantly NEVER let them ride the controls - ESPECIALLY the rudder pedals - you cant see them so this makes it harder...I was flying with an instructor once who forgot he was on the pedals (we thats what he told me) I gave them a kick to find no movement - lots of apologies and one retracted leg later the pedals moved again!!! Taught me a valuable lesson though...if you dont know where the feet of the peeps next to you are then you may find out at a critical moment...
The worst time for me as an instructor has been on those flights where i really do wish to just go along as pax and ENJOY it - Im so busy normallyinstructing/flying myself its nice to sit back relax and ENJOY the flight. The worse has been going flying with someone you have just done a club check on...its very hard to switch instuctor mode off - but im learning and my 'students' have been very understanding - they are all excellent peeps anyway! At least as an instructor i know where to keep my hands! (firmly in my lap and NOT on the controls...)
Hope you find a more aimiable friend to fly with - may I suggest that what you need is not someone greatly more experienced than you - but slightly more experienced...thus avoiding know-it-all syndrome (well sort of)...
Hope this helps,
FF
eeek. Sorry to hear about that flight....youd be amazed at how many PPLs/CPLs believe they are an instructor..Did you know the guy on the ground much before hand? if not my recommendation is get to know someone a little before flying with them - or get a recommendation from someone who has flown with them...ask people what they are like. Was there a large age difference? Just curious.
Give a captains brief on departure - make sure they KNOW you are PIC and have the controls and they should NOT touch anything unless asked to do so.
More importantly NEVER let them ride the controls - ESPECIALLY the rudder pedals - you cant see them so this makes it harder...I was flying with an instructor once who forgot he was on the pedals (we thats what he told me) I gave them a kick to find no movement - lots of apologies and one retracted leg later the pedals moved again!!! Taught me a valuable lesson though...if you dont know where the feet of the peeps next to you are then you may find out at a critical moment...
The worst time for me as an instructor has been on those flights where i really do wish to just go along as pax and ENJOY it - Im so busy normallyinstructing/flying myself its nice to sit back relax and ENJOY the flight. The worse has been going flying with someone you have just done a club check on...its very hard to switch instuctor mode off - but im learning and my 'students' have been very understanding - they are all excellent peeps anyway! At least as an instructor i know where to keep my hands! (firmly in my lap and NOT on the controls...)
Hope you find a more aimiable friend to fly with - may I suggest that what you need is not someone greatly more experienced than you - but slightly more experienced...thus avoiding know-it-all syndrome (well sort of)...
Hope this helps,
FF
I once had the pleasure of positioning an aircraft across the UK with a 100hr PPL who did not know that I was a 1000hr+ instructor. He assumed he was more experienced than I for some reason.
Needless to say the flight was a fun experience. For the first 100nm he endlessly corrected my minor infractions. Approaching East Mids I was able to rather promptly climb above 8/8ths STC speculating we would "find a hole" at destination.
It was amusing watching the VFR warrior skirm in his seat until I told him at the IF that I held an IR and the following approach would be conducted to minimas.
No matter how experienced you are in aviation you should remember that the bloke across the club room in the scruffy trousers is probably John Farley and by opening your mouth you are only inviting your foot to enter.
WWW
Needless to say the flight was a fun experience. For the first 100nm he endlessly corrected my minor infractions. Approaching East Mids I was able to rather promptly climb above 8/8ths STC speculating we would "find a hole" at destination.
It was amusing watching the VFR warrior skirm in his seat until I told him at the IF that I held an IR and the following approach would be conducted to minimas.
No matter how experienced you are in aviation you should remember that the bloke across the club room in the scruffy trousers is probably John Farley and by opening your mouth you are only inviting your foot to enter.
WWW
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Most of my students think they are footrests once the nosewheel lifts off the ground! A good bootful of rudder once in a while makes em pay attention. "If we're supposed to be climbing straight ahead, how come we're turning????"
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CRM principles start during your first lesson - e.g. we should all understanding during lesson one how to transfer control. The cockpit of any plane is not the place for smart-ass comments from the PIC, SIC, an instructor or a passenger. Nothing wrong with any pilot questioning the actions of another pilot, IMO, but you have to do it in the correct manner. And isn't that one of the things that CRM (or just getting along with other people) is all about?
The Original Whirly
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VORTime,
Not much new to add really. Don't fly with someone like that. If he's behaving like that he knows very little about flying, however many hours he has. Yes; I've had it happen, thought at the time it was because I was female; maybe it was, or maybe some people just like to throw their weight around. But the cockpit's not the place to do it. Advice or suggestions from a more experienced pilot are fine; anything else is not. I fly a lot with a friend who's a 2000+ hour instructor; she would never ever do anything like that, and she asks very politely if I want any help if I'm PIC, even in situations where I'm really struggling (a crosswind landing on Inisheer's short undulating runway in turbulence comes to mind. ) Keep away from this guy!
Not much new to add really. Don't fly with someone like that. If he's behaving like that he knows very little about flying, however many hours he has. Yes; I've had it happen, thought at the time it was because I was female; maybe it was, or maybe some people just like to throw their weight around. But the cockpit's not the place to do it. Advice or suggestions from a more experienced pilot are fine; anything else is not. I fly a lot with a friend who's a 2000+ hour instructor; she would never ever do anything like that, and she asks very politely if I want any help if I'm PIC, even in situations where I'm really struggling (a crosswind landing on Inisheer's short undulating runway in turbulence comes to mind.
) Keep away from this guy!
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Whirlybird, strange you mention Inisheer - the flight carried us in that direction but we had a nice loooooong runway to land on!!
Were you just visiting or from this part of the world?
Were you just visiting or from this part of the world?
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Flew with three experienced cub / taildragger pilots this weekend. All were the model of decorum and let me get on with it, offering advice only when I requested it. Don't fly with this person or anyone like them again, because even if it isn't dangerous it will sap your confidence something rotten.
Try the PFA coaching scheme?
QDM
Try the PFA coaching scheme?
QDM
