C172 Spin Safety
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C172 Spin Safety
Hello,
I am having a lot of trouble trusting airplanes. I used to have problems trusting instructors too, but my current instructor is very capable and has been super patient with me while I try to get back in the air again. The airplane is spin certified, and the back seats have even been taken out to help shift the CG forward. The instructor is good with spins and teaches them to other trainee instructors, so I'm not concerned about the piloting aspect.
My main concern is that even with everything done correctly, and a thorough preflight, the wings will still fold up during recovery. Even steep turns make me uncomfortable because I can't stop thinking that something is going to go wrong. The instructor is in no way pushing me to spin, it's entirely something I am wanting to do because I think it is a big step towards getting myself comfortable with flying again.
I am trying to master each situation that I could find myself in regardless of how the situation occurs, so I've gone through the basics a bunch, and I'm intending to go through x-control stalls and other different combinations of inputs to make sure I can recognize and recover from any bad control inputs or situations. Spins are one of those major things that I can't stop stressing about when I'm in the pattern and such (I don't mean just being aware of them, I mean I am legitimately constantly expecting the worst to happen).
My concern with flying is very illogical, and that bothers me a lot. I know that there's no reason to be concerned in a lot of these situations because I'm ahead of the airplane, but it doesn't stop me from assuming that I'll be in the next NTSB report.
If anyone has any experience or advice on this type of thing, I'd love to hear it. If the scheduling works out, I will probably be spinning tomorrow, so hopefully the wings stay attached.
regards,
ASweetOldMan
I am having a lot of trouble trusting airplanes. I used to have problems trusting instructors too, but my current instructor is very capable and has been super patient with me while I try to get back in the air again. The airplane is spin certified, and the back seats have even been taken out to help shift the CG forward. The instructor is good with spins and teaches them to other trainee instructors, so I'm not concerned about the piloting aspect.
My main concern is that even with everything done correctly, and a thorough preflight, the wings will still fold up during recovery. Even steep turns make me uncomfortable because I can't stop thinking that something is going to go wrong. The instructor is in no way pushing me to spin, it's entirely something I am wanting to do because I think it is a big step towards getting myself comfortable with flying again.
I am trying to master each situation that I could find myself in regardless of how the situation occurs, so I've gone through the basics a bunch, and I'm intending to go through x-control stalls and other different combinations of inputs to make sure I can recognize and recover from any bad control inputs or situations. Spins are one of those major things that I can't stop stressing about when I'm in the pattern and such (I don't mean just being aware of them, I mean I am legitimately constantly expecting the worst to happen).
My concern with flying is very illogical, and that bothers me a lot. I know that there's no reason to be concerned in a lot of these situations because I'm ahead of the airplane, but it doesn't stop me from assuming that I'll be in the next NTSB report.
If anyone has any experience or advice on this type of thing, I'd love to hear it. If the scheduling works out, I will probably be spinning tomorrow, so hopefully the wings stay attached.
regards,
ASweetOldMan
I've done a bit in 172's, including the permitted 'aerobatic' manouevers, (wingovers) and spins.
The aircraft at the weight you're flying it is certified in the utility category, which means it is capable up to 4.4G.
There is a required 50% safety margin, I believe.
I've never heard of a 172 in-flight break-up. The type has a reputation for ruggedness (like most of the Cessna high-wing stable.)
Every time I've spun a 172 at forward CoG, it has to be held in to the spin. If full aft wheel and into spin rudder isn't maintained, or a bit of power maintained, it will simply fall out of the spin into a spiral dive. Recovery is utterly conventional. It's a lady.
Hope that helps.
The aircraft at the weight you're flying it is certified in the utility category, which means it is capable up to 4.4G.
There is a required 50% safety margin, I believe.
I've never heard of a 172 in-flight break-up. The type has a reputation for ruggedness (like most of the Cessna high-wing stable.)
Every time I've spun a 172 at forward CoG, it has to be held in to the spin. If full aft wheel and into spin rudder isn't maintained, or a bit of power maintained, it will simply fall out of the spin into a spiral dive. Recovery is utterly conventional. It's a lady.
Hope that helps.
I think you are worrying unecessarily. The 172 is a very strong aircraft and in my experience, spins well and recovers nicely.
I remember having read many times in the past that there had never been an in-flight breakup of a strut-braced Cessna. A quick search found this post by Pilot DAR, who is a well-respected PPRuNe contributor:
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...ml#post6366874
Here's an interesting maximum load factor comparison:
Cessna 172 +3.8g -1.52g
Boeing 737 +2.5g -1.00g
PS I see that Tarq57 beat me to it by a minute.
I should add that a spin with a properly-handled recovery is a very low-g maneuver.
I remember having read many times in the past that there had never been an in-flight breakup of a strut-braced Cessna. A quick search found this post by Pilot DAR, who is a well-respected PPRuNe contributor:
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...ml#post6366874
Here's an interesting maximum load factor comparison:
Cessna 172 +3.8g -1.52g
Boeing 737 +2.5g -1.00g
PS I see that Tarq57 beat me to it by a minute.
I should add that a spin with a properly-handled recovery is a very low-g maneuver.
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Also remember that when you actually recover from the spin (assuming it is a spin not a spiral) you will only just be above the 1g stall speed, so not actually going very fast, you will probably need to hold the nose down for a second or so to get the speed for the pull out or you may getba secondary stall, you should not really need much more than a 2.5 - 3 G pull to exit either.
Surprised he wants the CoG forward as less likely to spin properly like that!
Surprised he wants the CoG forward as less likely to spin properly like that!
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ASweetOldMan,
This is actually fairly common, and I have often seen this in people, some so bad that they physically become unable to to board commercial airliners.
I think you are managing to beat others with the fact that you understand the irrationality of your inner argument. Unless you have seen shoddy maintenance on the plane that you are flying, then why worry?
Something that may help get your mind at ease, is the fact that the C172 (amongst others on the scene) are very well built, easy to maintain, robust and I cannot recall any catastrophic structural failures relating to wings on any C172, and the few that I have found were directly linked to bad maintenance, with clear visible signs for months (not hours) that things aren't quite right.
During the spin the g load is essentially one so there is no excess
loading. But during the recovery you can generate 2 or more g’s depending on how aggressively you pull out of the dive. In the utility category (which yours is in) my C172 POH states that I can pull +4.4Gs to -1.5Gs. These limits have considerable margins (for certification) which have been thoroughly tested. Even at the upper limit (which I doubt you'll ever pull), and beyond that, there is no certitude of the wing "breaking off" as you say. There may be damage, which may require maintenance.
So you would likely be pulling less than 50% of the certified G force of the aircraft, as well as of course considerably less than the absolute limit.
Try to look at the facts and figures - and realise that there is no more risk in spinning a plane, as there is just getting in one. Especially if you do not think that piloting skills is an issue!
I hope this helps, and good luck with the spins!
Best Wishes,
Alex
This is actually fairly common, and I have often seen this in people, some so bad that they physically become unable to to board commercial airliners.
I think you are managing to beat others with the fact that you understand the irrationality of your inner argument. Unless you have seen shoddy maintenance on the plane that you are flying, then why worry?
Something that may help get your mind at ease, is the fact that the C172 (amongst others on the scene) are very well built, easy to maintain, robust and I cannot recall any catastrophic structural failures relating to wings on any C172, and the few that I have found were directly linked to bad maintenance, with clear visible signs for months (not hours) that things aren't quite right.
During the spin the g load is essentially one so there is no excess
loading. But during the recovery you can generate 2 or more g’s depending on how aggressively you pull out of the dive. In the utility category (which yours is in) my C172 POH states that I can pull +4.4Gs to -1.5Gs. These limits have considerable margins (for certification) which have been thoroughly tested. Even at the upper limit (which I doubt you'll ever pull), and beyond that, there is no certitude of the wing "breaking off" as you say. There may be damage, which may require maintenance.
So you would likely be pulling less than 50% of the certified G force of the aircraft, as well as of course considerably less than the absolute limit.
Try to look at the facts and figures - and realise that there is no more risk in spinning a plane, as there is just getting in one. Especially if you do not think that piloting skills is an issue!
I hope this helps, and good luck with the spins!
Best Wishes,
Alex
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Not saying anything that the others haven't already said, but maybe suggesting another way to think about it-
Remember that the airplane itself is quite happy in the spin. It can go on spinning all day without the loads increasing. That if there is enough sky for it to descend through. Spins are only dangerous because if they are allowed to carry on they end in the ground. The airplane doesn't know that, but you do.
Spins aren't dangerous. Letting them continue until you hit the ground is dangerous. So practice them high up and fly well when close to the ground so you don't spin.
Remember that the airplane itself is quite happy in the spin. It can go on spinning all day without the loads increasing. That if there is enough sky for it to descend through. Spins are only dangerous because if they are allowed to carry on they end in the ground. The airplane doesn't know that, but you do.
Spins aren't dangerous. Letting them continue until you hit the ground is dangerous. So practice them high up and fly well when close to the ground so you don't spin.
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If the POH says +4.4g, then it will have had to withstand +6.6g in a static certification test as a minimum before the wing breaks. Pulling +6.6g in a C172 in flight would be a tall order.
I remember an old timer instructor once told me that you could climb a C172 up to it's ceiling, dive it straight at the ground at full power and still never get close to pulling the wings off it! A bit of an exaggerated claim but probably not far off the mark. They are very well built.
I remember an old timer instructor once told me that you could climb a C172 up to it's ceiling, dive it straight at the ground at full power and still never get close to pulling the wings off it! A bit of an exaggerated claim but probably not far off the mark. They are very well built.
From your post you indicate you are getting back into flying. Have you had a previous experience flying that scared you? (spin training? stalling? aerobatics etc?).
If there is an area in operating the aircraft in which you feel decidedly uncomfortable it may need to be dealt with gently and with some time and exposure until you can move beyond it.
How do you feel when practicing stalling? If you are unhappy there perhaps spinning should wait a bit longer until you feel confident stalling? That is no big deal. Practicing stalling (on a gentle progression of aggressiveness) helps make for good landing skills as you get used to slow speed flight and control so it is not wasted time.
Humans are not as rational as we would like to believe. Fear can be overcome by appropriate increasing exposure that doesn't put you into a strong "out of control" (figuratively not literally) feeling.
You may know rationally the wings won't be damaged when spinning. That won't necessarily stop your thoughts unless you have become emotionally confident they won't.
That all said, having a constant (but well mastered) apprehension about what things can go wrong (and correspondingly working to mitigate those risks) makes for a good attitude to flying. And a good attitude to preflight inspections
If there is an area in operating the aircraft in which you feel decidedly uncomfortable it may need to be dealt with gently and with some time and exposure until you can move beyond it.
How do you feel when practicing stalling? If you are unhappy there perhaps spinning should wait a bit longer until you feel confident stalling? That is no big deal. Practicing stalling (on a gentle progression of aggressiveness) helps make for good landing skills as you get used to slow speed flight and control so it is not wasted time.
Humans are not as rational as we would like to believe. Fear can be overcome by appropriate increasing exposure that doesn't put you into a strong "out of control" (figuratively not literally) feeling.
You may know rationally the wings won't be damaged when spinning. That won't necessarily stop your thoughts unless you have become emotionally confident they won't.
That all said, having a constant (but well mastered) apprehension about what things can go wrong (and correspondingly working to mitigate those risks) makes for a good attitude to flying. And a good attitude to preflight inspections
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I've spun a C152 and a Pa38 and the C152 is a pussy cat which will recover from a spin by itself (if trimmed full aft it may pitch up and stall/spin again otherwise it will come out of the spin and become a spiral dive)
The PA38 no,.. you need to use proper spin recovery. (and don't look at the tail) entry is quite sporty!!!!
C172 spins I would imagine are the same, just a bit heavier! take a look out either side window... those things a struts!!!! and that is a lot of strength!!!.
Just remember spins are nothing to be afraid of as long as you use proper recovery. DO NOT pick a wing up using aileron, this will make it worse :-) use the rudder and use the now increasing speed to return to level flight then you can start picking up the wing if your wing low either side.
Some aircraft will go flat in the spin if power is applied but you need to read the POH and talk to your instructor about that, I don't think power on in a spin is an issue in C172
So after saying all that... I had an issue with the wingdrop stall in a PA38 during my flight training. I had a bad day once and ended up snapped onto my back and completing a loop to return to level upright flight.
I persevered (you had to demonstrate this in the flight exam) by breathing and briefing what was going to happen in my mind... don't let people rush you, breath, become clam, talk through even allowed what's going to happen and what the recovery is. Your going to initiated the spin so you know what pop rudder will be. you know the wings are going to stay just where they are. once you do a few they become quite fun! and you'll be really proud of yourself.
And last but not least...why spin? if you don't like it there is no legal requirement (in NZ anyway) to demonstrate spin recovery. learn how not to get into one (low speed full control deflection high angle of attack, like a REALLY poor turn to final) and you'll be fine!
FK73
The PA38 no,.. you need to use proper spin recovery. (and don't look at the tail) entry is quite sporty!!!!
C172 spins I would imagine are the same, just a bit heavier! take a look out either side window... those things a struts!!!! and that is a lot of strength!!!.
Just remember spins are nothing to be afraid of as long as you use proper recovery. DO NOT pick a wing up using aileron, this will make it worse :-) use the rudder and use the now increasing speed to return to level flight then you can start picking up the wing if your wing low either side.
Some aircraft will go flat in the spin if power is applied but you need to read the POH and talk to your instructor about that, I don't think power on in a spin is an issue in C172
So after saying all that... I had an issue with the wingdrop stall in a PA38 during my flight training. I had a bad day once and ended up snapped onto my back and completing a loop to return to level upright flight.
I persevered (you had to demonstrate this in the flight exam) by breathing and briefing what was going to happen in my mind... don't let people rush you, breath, become clam, talk through even allowed what's going to happen and what the recovery is. Your going to initiated the spin so you know what pop rudder will be. you know the wings are going to stay just where they are. once you do a few they become quite fun! and you'll be really proud of yourself.
And last but not least...why spin? if you don't like it there is no legal requirement (in NZ anyway) to demonstrate spin recovery. learn how not to get into one (low speed full control deflection high angle of attack, like a REALLY poor turn to final) and you'll be fine!
FK73
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From your post you indicate you are getting back into flying. Have you had a previous experience flying that scared you? (spin training? stalling? aerobatics etc?).
If there is an area in operating the aircraft in which you feel decidedly uncomfortable it may need to be dealt with gently and with some time and exposure until you can move beyond it.
How do you feel when practicing stalling? If you are unhappy there perhaps spinning should wait a bit longer until you feel confident stalling? That is no big deal. Practicing stalling (on a gentle progression of aggressiveness) helps make for good landing skills as you get used to slow speed flight and control so it is not wasted time.
Humans are not as rational as we would like to believe. Fear can be overcome by appropriate increasing exposure that doesn't put you into a strong "out of control" (figuratively not literally) feeling.
You may know rationally the wings won't be damaged when spinning. That won't necessarily stop your thoughts unless you have become emotionally confident they won't.
That all said, having a constant (but well mastered) apprehension about what things can go wrong (and correspondingly working to mitigate those risks) makes for a good attitude to flying. And a good attitude to preflight inspections
If there is an area in operating the aircraft in which you feel decidedly uncomfortable it may need to be dealt with gently and with some time and exposure until you can move beyond it.
How do you feel when practicing stalling? If you are unhappy there perhaps spinning should wait a bit longer until you feel confident stalling? That is no big deal. Practicing stalling (on a gentle progression of aggressiveness) helps make for good landing skills as you get used to slow speed flight and control so it is not wasted time.
Humans are not as rational as we would like to believe. Fear can be overcome by appropriate increasing exposure that doesn't put you into a strong "out of control" (figuratively not literally) feeling.
You may know rationally the wings won't be damaged when spinning. That won't necessarily stop your thoughts unless you have become emotionally confident they won't.
That all said, having a constant (but well mastered) apprehension about what things can go wrong (and correspondingly working to mitigate those risks) makes for a good attitude to flying. And a good attitude to preflight inspections
During runup the vacuum pump was dead and the attitude indicator was flopped over (although I recall the HSI being functional somehow). The weather wasn't great that day. I'm pretty sure it was VFR on takeoff, but there were lots of huge thick clouds with gaps between them. I asked if it was still safe to fly, he said it was, and he was an instrument instructor, so I had no reason to doubt him. Anyway, we took off and were just cruising around between clouds, and the instructor said we could do instrument approaches at a nearby airport. I again asked if it was safe to do, and he said it was.
He talked to ATC and they vectored us towards some gigantic clouds. I was a little bit nervous because we didn't have an attitude indicator, so I pointed out the clouds to him and he said it was fine because we had our VSI and TC. Anyways, we go into IMC, and all is well, and we are just doing what ATC says. Eventually, he gave the controls to me and gave me a basic rundown on flying partial panel, and watched me for a bit while I turned to the heading the ATC said to, and then he went to fidgeting with his iPad and ForeFlight or whatnot.
One big problem is that I had done literally thousands of hours of (personal, not certified) simulator flying when I was young (all I wanted to do when I got old enough was to fly, so I spent all my christmas money, birthday money, etc, on simulator equipment and software). The TC in my flight simulator (X-Plane) would indicate the rate of turn until the little airplane on the TC was nearly vertical in each direction. This did not mirror reality where there are apparently bumpers/stops only a few millimeters after the standard rate turn markings.
Anyways, I saw that the TC was past the standard rate turn markings, but I didn't really care all that much because I was maintaining altitude, and I didn't care a ton if the turn was slightly faster than standard rate. Well, I was keeping aileron input in because that was what appeared to be holding the rate of turn in (when in reality it was just jammed against the stop), so the plane kept rolling further and further which I was completely unaware of.
I saw that the vertical speed was starting to move down past like -500fpm and so I pulled back a bit and looked over at my turn coordinator again and focused on that for a bit, and then I guess the instructor looked up from his iPad and he saw the vertical speed and immediately took control, which prompted me to look back at the vertical speed which was way in the negative. He pulled back and the vertical speed moved back to like -300fpm before dropping back down again right away, so he pulled back harder, and it moved back to like +100fpm or something before dropping back down again. He pulled even harder the next time and for longer, and then the stall horn went off so he pushed forward, and I think we stabilized out some time after that.
At some point, I stopped looking at the vertical speed and looked at the GPS and some other instruments, but I don't recall a ton after that. At some point through, he had started talking with ATC, and some time after we leveled off (still in IMC, but headed away from the mountains at least), the ATC asked about souls and fuel, which was disconcerting to hear. We ended up getting out of the clouds, and he asked if I wanted to take control, but I didn't. After that, my friend threw up in the back seat, and I was trying to get him to not feel bad about it.
We landed and I told the instructor I was going to call my parents to come pick me and my friend up, and he didn't want me to. I called anyways, and my parents knew that flying scared me a lot, so they thought I was just over-reacting and so they didn't want to drive like 2-3 hours to get me, so I got stuck flying back. On the flight back, the instructor wanted me to sit in the right seat so he could sit in the left.
At this point, the weather was a lot worse, it was starting to rain, and there were only a few points where the ridge line didn't go into the clouds, so he wanted to go right away. We ended up flying back, and we threaded the needle between the lowest parts of the ridge line and the cloud bottoms, and stayed right below the clouds all the way back (I think we were at pattern altitude or close to that). The rain and visibility was so bad that I couldn't figure out where we were or where the airport was, even after flying in that same area for like 45 hours.
Anyways, we landed and parked, and I drove my friend home. I do remember thinking during the drive that it was not even a good day to drive because of how windy and rainy it was, and how hard it was to see. I stopped flying for a long time, and I was his last (or one of) student before he quit flying and flight instruction entirely.
I don't really know why I put the whole story out there, but maybe it will help someone else so they can learn from my mistakes. I still get super anxious when I go through the story or talk about it, but I think it's one of the main reasons why I hate G-Forces and don't trust airplanes at all.
regards,
ASweetOldMan
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The main reason I am interested in spinning is because I have slowly been becoming more and more comfortable with flying (from just flying around to slowly progressing through stalls with slowly increasing intensity, etc). I have found that my general anxiety while flying has reduced drastically as I become more and more comfortable with the situations I am super worried about (spins in the pattern, stalls on takeoff, etc). Once I know I am completely confident in recognizing the signs of such a situation, and am completely confident in recovering from that situation, I don't worry about it at all compared to how it was when I started.
I am really happy with how far I've come, and I am just pushing on until I am actually comfortable with flying. I know that I will not feel comfortable flying until I can master all of the situations I am really concerned about, and can gain faith in the airplane's ability to handle those situations without some sort of structural failure.
I am really happy with how far I've come, and I am just pushing on until I am actually comfortable with flying. I know that I will not feel comfortable flying until I can master all of the situations I am really concerned about, and can gain faith in the airplane's ability to handle those situations without some sort of structural failure.
Matey, you didn't make any mistakes.
If what you relate is how it happened, that instructor should be banned from taking the lift, let alone flying an aircraft.
All the mistakes were his. You were all rather fortunate he didn't end up pranging you all. It's seriously bad airmanship, (not to mention illegal, I think) to deliberately enter IMC without a functioning vacuum pump, or other vital equipment for IFR flight. To compound it by offering you a seriously inadequate briefing about partial panel instrument flight (which would usually be two or more fully briefed, separate lessons, conducted in VMC) and to then faff around with an ipad...frankly it's beyond belief. (But I do believe you.)
I would be extremely surprised if you were to have a repeat type of flight to that one. I'm not at all surprised you're a bit nervous about flying as a result from it.
If what you relate is how it happened, that instructor should be banned from taking the lift, let alone flying an aircraft.
All the mistakes were his. You were all rather fortunate he didn't end up pranging you all. It's seriously bad airmanship, (not to mention illegal, I think) to deliberately enter IMC without a functioning vacuum pump, or other vital equipment for IFR flight. To compound it by offering you a seriously inadequate briefing about partial panel instrument flight (which would usually be two or more fully briefed, separate lessons, conducted in VMC) and to then faff around with an ipad...frankly it's beyond belief. (But I do believe you.)
I would be extremely surprised if you were to have a repeat type of flight to that one. I'm not at all surprised you're a bit nervous about flying as a result from it.
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Thanks. Yeah that was something I found interesting. When I called a prior instructor to tell him about this situation (the day after), he kept rephrasing what I was saying because he thought I meant something else, and it seemed like it took a while for him to realize how it actually was instead of thinking I was trying to explain a different situation. I also noticed this when I was telling my current instructor about the situation.
Usually, people interpret it as me saying that we lost our vacuum while in IMC, or that I was practicing partial panel in VMC under the hood or something. I don't blame anyone for not believing it.
One of my biggest issues is that I seem to treat every tiny bump or burst of wind as an emergency situation. For example, when I am climbing out after takeoff, if the speed drops even a bit, my mind is racing and I'm trying to diagnose the situation and my first thought is always that I've gotten way too slow and am going to stall (even when I am going 65-75). As a result, I'm basically white-knuckling it the entire climbout. Last flight though, I didn't, so I'm very happy about that!
The IMC situation actually happened years ago, and I am at a completely different school in a completely different state now. My current instructor is awesome, and I feel kinda bad sometimes because I will get extremely stressed and then afterwards, when I reflect on the situation, I will see that there's no reason to be stressed. I am guessing it's probably stressful being my instructor because I will go from calm to super, super stressed in a very short amount of time over events that have no reason to cause stress (even just a wing dropping from turbulence).
I should have time tomorrow, so I can come and post an update after the flight if I manage to spin. Thanks all for the insight on this situation.
regards,
ASweetOldMan
Usually, people interpret it as me saying that we lost our vacuum while in IMC, or that I was practicing partial panel in VMC under the hood or something. I don't blame anyone for not believing it.
One of my biggest issues is that I seem to treat every tiny bump or burst of wind as an emergency situation. For example, when I am climbing out after takeoff, if the speed drops even a bit, my mind is racing and I'm trying to diagnose the situation and my first thought is always that I've gotten way too slow and am going to stall (even when I am going 65-75). As a result, I'm basically white-knuckling it the entire climbout. Last flight though, I didn't, so I'm very happy about that!
The IMC situation actually happened years ago, and I am at a completely different school in a completely different state now. My current instructor is awesome, and I feel kinda bad sometimes because I will get extremely stressed and then afterwards, when I reflect on the situation, I will see that there's no reason to be stressed. I am guessing it's probably stressful being my instructor because I will go from calm to super, super stressed in a very short amount of time over events that have no reason to cause stress (even just a wing dropping from turbulence).
I should have time tomorrow, so I can come and post an update after the flight if I manage to spin. Thanks all for the insight on this situation.
regards,
ASweetOldMan
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To make sure you don't stress the aircraft:
Be absolutely certain that during the spin you hold the controls deflected to their stops, to avoid getting into a spiral.
Install a G meter somewhere inside the cockpit, you can get them reasonably cheap second hand
This should relieve your fears in making sure you don't overstress the structure
There is one imponderable, as many pilots are flying club aircraft, and if it is spinned regularly, there is no way to ascertain that it was not abused. However I have never ever heard of a 172 losing it wings...
Go pratcise in an aerobatic aircraft, it has oversized controls optimised for slow flight and spin recovery and it withstands loads up to 6 g's
Be absolutely certain that during the spin you hold the controls deflected to their stops, to avoid getting into a spiral.
Install a G meter somewhere inside the cockpit, you can get them reasonably cheap second hand
This should relieve your fears in making sure you don't overstress the structure
There is one imponderable, as many pilots are flying club aircraft, and if it is spinned regularly, there is no way to ascertain that it was not abused. However I have never ever heard of a 172 losing it wings...
Go pratcise in an aerobatic aircraft, it has oversized controls optimised for slow flight and spin recovery and it withstands loads up to 6 g's
Old Man... that story is jaw dropping. I am not surprised you feel nervous. What that instructor did to a student pilot, just post solo is appalling. As FKiwi said - you did nothing wrong and should have nothing to do with a training outfit that allows that level of incompetence and complete lack of professionalism.Flying is not meant to be like that. Find a school with an older, experienced instructor who loves teaching people to fly. Tell them your story and why you are nervous. You need good competent instruction to put that experience behind you. What was done to you was akin to an assault IMO. You were right to be scared. And with a passenger in the back... that could have easily have ended very nastily
No wonder you are nervous. Take it easy. There are cowboys out there but it is most definitely not the norm in aviation. Steer clear of cowboys.
@ jonkster, I think it was me that said that rather than FKiwi. Not that it matters.
@Sweet Old Man...By the way, there is absolutely no hurry to get any spin training done, unless you feel compelled to... as a sort-of 'get back on the horse' therapy.
Some of us flew for a few months, or even years, before undertaking such training.
If you think it will help, go for it. It may well give you a big confidence lift. Don't be too worried though if it doesn't. There's plenty of time.
What you are describing amounts to, in my mind, as a form of PTSD. Try not to be overly concerned at having a normal (white knuckle) reaction to something that your head is telling you is relatively minor. Sure, your head is right, but the reaction is pretty normal, given what that guy put you through.
@Sweet Old Man...By the way, there is absolutely no hurry to get any spin training done, unless you feel compelled to... as a sort-of 'get back on the horse' therapy.
Some of us flew for a few months, or even years, before undertaking such training.
If you think it will help, go for it. It may well give you a big confidence lift. Don't be too worried though if it doesn't. There's plenty of time.
What you are describing amounts to, in my mind, as a form of PTSD. Try not to be overly concerned at having a normal (white knuckle) reaction to something that your head is telling you is relatively minor. Sure, your head is right, but the reaction is pretty normal, given what that guy put you through.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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This thread is nothing to do with spin safety, it started due to general anxiety. The two are different. Mr Cessna builds strong(ish) aircraft. They are capable of taking a lot of punishment. Providing you don't mistreat or mishandle them too much they will normally stay in one piece. So to the OP, firstly may I suggest that you have no choice other than to trust Mr Cessna and his products. Secondly, I'm glad to hear you have found an instructor you can trust. By all means de-sensitise yourself to spinning by regularly doing them but you may need more professional psychological help on the ground to overcome your overall fear of flying. Bump, bangs, thuds and the unexpected are always around the corner and most of the time you have "quickly do nothing" to deal with them. Not until that is learnt will you be happy in an aircraft.
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Last edited by Piltdown Man; 8th Mar 2017 at 10:22.