Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

Question on PPL Hours crediting

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

Question on PPL Hours crediting

Reply

Old 3rd Jun 2016, 14:00
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 3
Question on PPL Hours crediting

Afternoon All!

I'm new to this forum so would like to say a big hello and ask for your help.

I'm a PPL student, doing it as a hobby (no intention to change career or anything), I've been taking lessons at Rochester EGTO since about April and very much enjoying flying with Skytrek. I'm hoping the longer term to find a share a nice little plane and get some proper aviators so I fit in better at the airfield.

In 2001 (at the tender age of 17) I was lucky enough to get an RAF Flying Scholarship, which included 20 hours of training with Tayside Aviation, Dundee (civilian training school). These were probably two of the best two weeks I've ever had, lots of flying, boozing and enjoying the company of fellow students!) oh to be 17 again!

It has since taken me 15yrs or so to get in a position where flying is a realistic (just about affordable) hobby to take up.. having had five or six lessons this year it is all gradually coming back to me!

Anyway, I have my old log book from 2001 which is pretty basic (hours logged, aircraft, type, Dual / Solo etc) but all signed and stamped by Tayside.

I can see nothing in CAP804 / FCL210.A that suggests my old hours from 2001 can't be credited against the EASA PPL 45hr requirement. In 2001 I followed a JAR syllabus flying SEPs (C152, as now).

I did ping an email to the CAA licensing bods to confirm this and they've sent me back a form 'SRG2137' and suggested I'd need to apply for an 'exemption' and pay £53. Anyone got any idea what I'd be applying for an 'exemption' from? the form gives me no clues at all.

They also tell me there's an Information Notice to be released this week on the crediting of hours pre-2012. I'm no lawyer and I appreciate this is a legal minefield, but am I missing something obvious in the regs?

It wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd prefer to avoid the situation of applying for my license and then being told I'd need to complete another £3 - 4k worth of hours before I can fly off into the sunset with the mrs (...and then promptly return back within 30mins of civil twilight..) ..obviously this assumes I can do the whole thing on minimum-ish hours anyway, which is by no means a given.

I've asked the CAA chap to clarify, but wondered if anyone had any similar experience on this point?

Any help gratefully received.

Thanks!

Pat
Preedy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jun 2016, 16:35
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,364
Regulation 1178/2011, Article 9

1. In respect of issuing Part-FCL licences in accordance with Annex I, training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation in accordance with the Joint Aviation Authorities requirements and procedures, under the regulatory oversight of a Member State recommended for mutual recognition within the Joint Aviation Authorities’ system in relation to the relevant JAR, shall be given full credit provided that the training and testing were completed by 8 April 2016 at the latest.
Consequently, on the face of it, no training completed prior to 8 April 2012 can now be credited for the issue of an EU licence. However, the UK CAA is very good at finding ways around the regulations when it wants to so I should wait for the promised IN.
BillieBob is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jun 2016, 16:50
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 3
Thanks for the quick reply BB. Appreciate it.

Having reread Article 9 I think I now see what is getting at.. if you started on a JAR course pre 2012 it all qualifies as long as the testing is completed pre 2016.

I guess its Article 9 that I would be asking for an exception from under art.14 (4) of Reg 216/2008.

Simple this innit..!

Worse case is I'll qualify with 65 or more logged hours and be a better pilot as a result..
Preedy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jun 2016, 20:50
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England
Posts: 3,371
Originally Posted by Preedy View Post
Worse case is I'll qualify with 65 or more logged hours ...
... as did many of us. Not very far from average, that
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2016, 10:19
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 510
There's a form for that:


http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG2137enabled.pdf
MrAverage is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2016, 11:24
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 24,931
Thanks to AOPA discussing the problem directly with the right people at the CAA, the Authority has agreed to permit PPL flight training conducted before 2012 to be credited towards the Part-FCL PPL or LAPL. The regulatory method being that the student pilot must apply for a '14(4)' exemption before taking the Skill Test.

Currently, this exemption takes about 10 working days to process and is then valid for 2 months. So don't apply too early - and make sure that you've got the exemption in your sweaty paws before taking the Skill Test!

So we've probably saved several people several £K as a result?
BEagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2016, 13:19
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 7,148
How does that apply to people who are converting from ICAO PPLs? Especially those with less than 100hrs?
S-Works is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jun 2016, 15:20
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 24,931
'That' only refers to ab initio flight training pre-Apr 2012.

As far as I'm aware, existing 3rd country conversion criteria for pilots who already hold pilot licences remain in place.
BEagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 5th Jun 2016, 09:00
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 7,148
Thanks. Still penalising licence holders on conversion then.
S-Works is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 08:10
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 216
wasnt there some thread somewhere on PPRuNe, that the training hours would be valid for an NPPL, then convert that to a LAPL then do what is necessary to
convert to an EASA PPL.
memories of px is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 09:23
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 510
..........see my reply to your post in the Instructor section..........
MrAverage is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 11:35
  #12 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 57
Posts: 3,782
Worse case is I'll qualify with 65 or more logged hours and be a better pilot as a result..
That's the spirit! A PPL is a stepping stone along your progress to be a safe and skilled pilot, it is not the end point. Don't be in a rush for a piece of paper, be planned and methodical about gaining and maintaining the skills to be a safe pilot. Along the way of that process, someone will hand you a PPL. Even with that, the learning is still just beginning. Though my fixed wing flight test (1978) is a bit fuzzy in recollection now, my second PPL flight test (helicopter) is more fresh - I learned things that flight! It was just another lesson, with a fellow ticking boxes as I flew it. So don't fixate on the number of hours in your logbook and pieces of paper, but rather your growth in skill. Once you're a few years in, with a larger number of hours, 20 "old" hours won't seem that important for your log anyway, just enjoy the memories!
Pilot DAR is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 20:59
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 804
Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Thanks to AOPA discussing the problem directly with the right people at the CAA, the Authority has agreed to permit PPL flight training conducted before 2012 to be credited towards the Part-FCL PPL or LAPL. The regulatory method being that the student pilot must apply for a '14(4)' exemption before taking the Skill Test.

Currently, this exemption takes about 10 working days to process and is then valid for 2 months. So don't apply too early - and make sure that you've got the exemption in your sweaty paws before taking the Skill Test!

So we've probably saved several people several £K as a result?
I have a student now who has done 11 odd hours on some sort of RAF scholarship from 5 years ago, would that count towards PPL?
BigEndBob is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jul 2018, 07:57
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by BigEndBob View Post
I have a student now who has done 11 odd hours on some sort of RAF scholarship from 5 years ago, would that count towards PPL?
Was it at Dundee? If so send me a PM
TangoAlphad is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2018, 00:09
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lancashire
Age: 34
Posts: 23
Is exemption form SRG2137 still valid and the agreement still in place?

I have 32 hours spanning the past 18 years but never got the chance to finish and complete a skills test, now, as life comes to a stable settle, I have just signed back up at my local FTO. We were having the discussion about my hours. Obviously, I have no vision of jumping back in and completing a skills test in 20 hours, but, if I made it to a point where the CFI was happy with my skills and was confident in me, some of those hours may be useful. I am going to take the form in with me and see if they have encountered it, but if anyone has further info to help me (Parts, annexes and articles that require exemption from, etc), all info would be appreciated.

Regards all out there!
AreWeNearlyThere is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2018, 15:08
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 932
Originally Posted by AreWeNearlyThere View Post
Obviously, I have no vision of jumping back in and completing a skills test in 20 hours
Why on earth not? 20 hours should be plenty, unless you have major confidence issues. It's all buried in there - I took my PPL test after a gap of 12 years and it took me 3.9 hours
rudestuff is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service