Flying Lawyer

Jay SataFor those of a certain age, the famous retort by Mandy Rice-Davies might spring to mind.

Steve Slater is a Liveryman of the Air Pilots. (As are several hundred other people.)
To the best of my knowledge and belief, he played no part whatsoever in the decision to award TCT a Master's Medal.
As I read it, he/she was agreeing with you, and did so in an amusing way.

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Just in case anyone doesn't notice the change of names -

The current Master of the Air Pilots, Capt Peter Benn, did not write the "great feat of aviation" (sic) / "ethos and spirit of adventure which many aviators strive for throughout their careers" (sic) letter. That was written by his predecessor.

It sometimes happens that a Master who awards a Medal has completed his/her year of office before it can be presented. When that happens, as here, the task of presenting it falls to the following Master.


NB:
I merely state the facts.
I intentionally make no comment about them.

Mike Flynn

The question is where do we go from here?

I am not party to the status of the various members of the HCAP.

If Steve Slater is happy his organisation wants to give a navigation award to a dubious couple using GPS in a highly sponsored reality tv show who are we mere plebs to argue? Someone recently said to me the LAA seem obsessed with bending wood!

Philip Whiteman,Dave Calderwood and Ian Seager have avoided this topic.
So we must assume they think it is OK to cheat?

Sqn Ldr Chris Ford wrote the letter below( I am not impressed by anyone who uses titles like that. My youngest son is a Royal Navy Lt and is only 26)


He might want to revisit that letter.

The HCAP might like to check some facts.If lying and cheating is the way women in aviation is promoted then count me out.

Now let us get down to the basics.

TCT has refused point blank to address any questions from various news organisations.

I have a problem not talking about my flying exploits especially after a few beers.

Why would anyone having done that trip not want to bore the pants of everyone?

Ewald has confessed he was on board for "most" of the trips so confirming
Sam Rutherford's allegations.

I just hope the epilogue to this sorry saga is the truth prevails and genuine candidates who really want to 'emulate' historic figures do it in an honest and genuine way.

kghjfg

The thing is, we do all know, the organisations know, the editors know, the TV people know, TCT knows, Ewald knows.

What you are forgetting is that some people prefer money to integrity. Some people prefer fame to integrity.

Some people have to be cautious, even if they do have some integrity. I bet TCT has a very big legal team, if you owned a magazine, would you go up against it? Risk your livelihood and that of others?

I remember when Lewis Hamilton won British Sports Personality thingy, I pointed out to the BBC he was no longer British, he emigrated for tax purposes, I don't think he should be allowed to use the Union flag when he wins either.

Anyway, back to Ewald, he prefers money to integrity, TCT prefers fame and money to integrity.

They are not alone in these views, they never have been, and they never will be. Neither would be a friend of mine. Life is too short to be obsessed about people we cannot change. It's not that they are lying, that's their personalities, you cannot change their personalities. This isn't a nice upstanding member of the community lying, which would distress me.

Of course they sleep well, they are what they are, from the root, and so they do not even think they have done anything wrong.

The funny thing is it is you that is keeping their story alive, the rest of the world is saying "Tracy who?". Ewald has made his money. Was Sam involved btw, was he paid ? Did he keep the money ?

They lied, we all know that, if we ever meet anyone who gets it wrong, we'll correct them. If I meet TCT I'll be polite, otherwise it will reflect on me.

You can only control your own integrity in this life, not that of others.

HCAP obviously know of the deceit. Does anyone believe they are actually honourable ? Do they even ? They'll do nothing, TCT will collect her award. Sad isn't it.

Another one to strike from the "integrity" list. Shame that they are not fussed about integrity with a name like that. Just goes to show what these people are actually like I suppose.

Stanwell

^^^
One of the best posts I've seen in a while.

abgd

Jay:

You posted a letter from someone who knew Tracy well, but perhaps too well to have a completely objective viewpoint. This influences, to some extent, how I interpret it.

Sam's motivation is clearly stated, and understandable.

Much as the facts/links you've posted seem to support your case, I find it disconcerting to watch such a sustained campaign from someone who is anonymous to me and whose motivations are opaque, at least to me. It seems like watching a fight where one person has a arm tied behind his back. I am guessing you have some kind of real-life connection to TCT? Can I suggest it would be only fair to state what it is, and perhaps who you are, unless you have a very good reason not to.

I find myself more sympathetic to TCT's case as a result of this, than I might otherwise be.

Cows getting bigger

Nice redaction of the HCAP letter. Not.

piperboy84

Yeap, me too. Time to spill the beans Jay, or at least tell us your motivation. I have trouble seeing why someone would get so worked up about an old toffy bird telling porky pies about her sporting exploits.

9 lives

It looks like the "facts of the event" have become more clear than those known at the time the letter was written. Oh well... perhaps it will encourage the organization to press for more complete information before making their determination.

We need to keep things in context though; TCT did not murder anyone, she just allowed very fuzzy truth to be perpetuated, presumably for her own aggrandizement. Sad, and of low honour, but worthy of a national inquiry? Not in my opinion....

Time to move on...

S-Works

So when is Jay Sata going to share with us his personal grievance that is causing him to run this vigilante campaign?

I am also stunned that Prune are allowing him to post the contents of a private letter to which he does not have copyright to in a public forum showing his victims address unchecked........

We all think she is a bull****ter, but allowing a vigilante campaign to be run is unacceptable.

Pilot DAR

Posters, we can't have personal/private information presented here. This is a discussion group, we are not a persecution organization. The broad spectrum of information on this topic seems to have been presented and well commented - good discussion. New information may be posted, if it does not invade privacy, nor perpetuate a very personal attack. Perhaps posters would like to link to any published media articles about this venture, and discuss that content. Let's let another venue be investigator/accuser if that needs to happen. I think the point has been made.

flybymike

For some strange reason I agree with Bose-x.

Mike Flynn

I am sorry if I’ve annoyed people, its just something I feel very strongly about (also when I think of others who did much more but received much less).

I have never met TCT or have any desire to.

Just wanted to set the record straight which became more of a mission as it was clear how many people think its okay or at least cant be bothered to do anything about it.

Genghis the Engineer

No we don't think it's okay Jay, just we all recognise that there are far bigger issues in the world to worry about. Certainly to this extent.

G

S-Works

Understandable, but once it became a kangaroo court it lost all credibility.

piperboy84

Jay, you have not annoyed me, but you do have me wondering. Are you sure all this haranguing is just a "strong feeling"? and not anything to do with the perceived wealth, social standing or perhaps pedigree of the subject in question.

Flying Lawyer

bose-xI have disagreed strongly with some of Jay Sata's allegations/assertions in the various TCT threads in this forum and have said so in very forceful terms on occasions.

However, I have no more reason to believe Jay Sata has a personal grievance against TCT than to believe you are motivated by a personal grievance against him when you have criticised him, chosen to accuse him of a "vigilante campaign" and persistently tried to silence him.

S-Works

Nope, no personal grievance at all. But a kangaroo court held in the absence of the accused does not sit well with me at all. Posting private correspondence that shows the accused private details on a public forum does not sit well with me either. Whatever we think of the woman we do not have the right invade her privacy or stir up internet hate campaigns. This was clearly an attempt to create an internet "pile on" and that also does not sit well with me. I am all for fair and even discussion on the subject and am not a fan of her actions but neither have I tried to silence "him" just tried to stop things getting out of hand.

Lets say I don't like you FL and don't like the way you have handled a case, do you think I have the right to post private correspondence showing your home address on an anonymous internet forum?

By all means discuss whats in the public domain but do it without attempting to stir up hatred. We should be able to discuss things in a civilised manner.

However at the end of the day, I still think who cares if she is a bull****ter, walk into any flying club bar and the air is thick with it, this is just one more case of a pilot begging themselves up on a fragile truth for their own sense of self. I find it sad more than anything else and don't think it even deserves oxygen.

I do like your attempt at role reversal though, ever considered becoming a lawyer.....

Flying Lawyer

I stand by what I said.

I would agree with some of what you say if the person concerned was someone who had not put themselves in the public domain and did not court publicity.

Cows getting bigger

To me, the word 'forum' reminds me of school debating societies, parish council meetings etc; somewhere ideas and views can be exchanged. It doesn't bring images of lynch mobs.

S-Works

So you think it perfectly acceptable to post private correspondence showing personal details on a public forum? Now you are a lawyer? Give us your legal opinion on that, I am genuinely interested.