Can you help me read this Aerodrome guide please?
gerardflyagain,
I would recommend that you get a dedicated C152 model although I cannot recommend one. I would also strongly recommend that you take on board reverserbucket and genghis's comments that your initial training should be instructor led. Perhaps FS would be useful to practice some of the exercises you are being taught but staying strictly within the scope of each lesson and not trying to preempt your instructor at all.
I do not have a Track IR and Gertrude is quite right that, for circuit work, you do need to look sideways easily. I always use "real cockpit mode" so I can look sideways reasonably easily. I get over it by identifying landmarks for my turning points and I think this is a good habit to develop anyway, especially when there are noise sensitive areas within the circuit. It also keeps you looking out of the window.
My son has a 3D version of FSX which uses Google Earth scenery and it is awesome but wearing the special goggles tends to make me feel giddy.
I would recommend that you get a dedicated C152 model although I cannot recommend one. I would also strongly recommend that you take on board reverserbucket and genghis's comments that your initial training should be instructor led. Perhaps FS would be useful to practice some of the exercises you are being taught but staying strictly within the scope of each lesson and not trying to preempt your instructor at all.
I do not have a Track IR and Gertrude is quite right that, for circuit work, you do need to look sideways easily. I always use "real cockpit mode" so I can look sideways reasonably easily. I get over it by identifying landmarks for my turning points and I think this is a good habit to develop anyway, especially when there are noise sensitive areas within the circuit. It also keeps you looking out of the window.
My son has a 3D version of FSX which uses Google Earth scenery and it is awesome but wearing the special goggles tends to make me feel giddy.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EGLD has a suffered a couple of fatalities in my time although not from this school, however they have had a couple of accidents, one of which involved a student on his first solo:
https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...BUFY_01-95.pdf
https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...BUFY_01-95.pdf
I think I'd be inclined not to hold a survivable accident 22 years ago against them. tPC at Denham in my experience of half a dozen years dropping in and one course there, are exceptionally safe in the way they run with adequately well looked after aeroplanes.
G
G
"it's the backwards reading magnetic compass that I have trouble getting my head around. Maybe it's easier for sailors?"
I am an ex ships master. We don't use Backwards reading magnetic compasses, we use (as a back up) one that reads "the right way round". I passed my PPL a couple of years ago. I can assure you reading a C152 magnetic compass was not intuitive!
I am an ex ships master. We don't use Backwards reading magnetic compasses, we use (as a back up) one that reads "the right way round". I passed my PPL a couple of years ago. I can assure you reading a C152 magnetic compass was not intuitive!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
... I always use "real cockpit mode" so I can look sideways reasonably easily. I get over it by identifying landmarks for my turning points and I think this is a good habit to develop anyway, especially when there are noise sensitive areas within the circuit. It also keeps you looking out of the window.
My son has a 3D version of FSX which uses Google Earth scenery and it is awesome but wearing the special goggles tends to make me feel giddy.
My son has a 3D version of FSX which uses Google Earth scenery and it is awesome but wearing the special goggles tends to make me feel giddy.
I generally look left and identify where I think 90degrees is. I then try to fly it visually, and then check on the instruments how far off I was. This is I hope, at least, training me to look outside primarily.
Do you mean your son has an oculus rift? Can you elaborate? I've used a rift and am convinced it will make a massive positive impact on flight simming. Unfortunately I can't get it for now as I'd need a new PC.
EGLD has a suffered a couple of fatalities in my time although not from this school, however they have had a couple of accidents, one of which involved a student on his first solo:
https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...BUFY_01-95.pdf
https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...BUFY_01-95.pdf
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Genghis
Quite, that wasn't my intent - I was providing an example of the risk associated with solo flying based on gerard's flippant comment about obituaries and the risk of complacency. I agree, very safe, properly and professionally run school. You would find it difficult to find better value for money in my view.
That's true although the description of the conditions earlier in the day provide insight into what may have been a contributing factor, however the interview with the PIC was only revealing in terms of how little could be recalled hence no conclusion could be drawn. The second solo was almost as eventful as the first but that's another story.
Sad to say, as many here are genuinely trying to offer some possibly misguided wisdom, but I think it is becoming clear that this thread is degenerating into flightsiming rather than one concerned with practical flying. In fairness, the OP did only ask how to read the aerodrome plate rather than seeking insightful guidance into how to proceed meaningfully with his PPL course
I think I'd be inclined not to hold a survivable accident 22 years ago against them. tPC at Denham in my experience of half a dozen years dropping in and one course there, are exceptionally safe in the way they run with adequately well looked after aeroplanes.
...the AAIB couldn't work out the cause of the power loss either
Sad to say, as many here are genuinely trying to offer some possibly misguided wisdom, but I think it is becoming clear that this thread is degenerating into flightsiming rather than one concerned with practical flying. In fairness, the OP did only ask how to read the aerodrome plate rather than seeking insightful guidance into how to proceed meaningfully with his PPL course
Yessss, I read two possible handling factors there. One was that conditions were certainly conducive to carb icing, the other was that the pilot adjusted the mixture to try and sort the engine out. What adjustment was there to make given it should be fully rich throughout the circuit of any UK airfield given our very low density altitudes?. A third is the fact that the carb had been off the aircraft very recently - and we all know that if stuff is going to go wrong, it's most likely to go wrong just after maintenance.
But ultimately - godnoze !
G
But ultimately - godnoze !
G
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wasn't meaning to make light of what I know is a very serious activity. I was just trying to lighten the tone in the thread, given that, frankly, it's felt borderline hostile towards me at times, even though I'm sure it was well intentioned.
So back to the original question, am I right to think that my solo flight would follow the blue arrows and be at a maximum height of 1000ft throughout?
So back to the original question, am I right to think that my solo flight would follow the blue arrows and be at a maximum height of 1000ft throughout?
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Oop North, UK
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Give the guy a break.
Also of course, understanding that difference will help him do exactly what he asked for in the first place, understand the plate properly!
Last edited by foxmoth; 10th Mar 2016 at 16:25.
Rest assured that during the initial stages of your lessons you will become very familiar with that blue circuit as drawn on that airfield chart. Most first solo flights consist of a single take-off, circuit and landing, using the procedures as set out in the manuals and techniques as taught to you by your instructor.
The maximum altitude relates to the fact that the airspace above is used by the London CTR and because of this you will not be allowed above 1000' relative to sea level. As Denham is at 249' your circuit altitude is probably something like 700' above aerodrome level, or 949' with the altimeter set to the local QNH. With such a restriction in place and only 50' of leeway, you'll most likely find that learning to stick to one altitude will become a recurring theme during circuit training.
Enjoy your lessons!
The maximum altitude relates to the fact that the airspace above is used by the London CTR and because of this you will not be allowed above 1000' relative to sea level. As Denham is at 249' your circuit altitude is probably something like 700' above aerodrome level, or 949' with the altimeter set to the local QNH. With such a restriction in place and only 50' of leeway, you'll most likely find that learning to stick to one altitude will become a recurring theme during circuit training.
Enjoy your lessons!
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: LHBS
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
am I right to think that my solo flight would follow the blue arrows
In your first solo flight, you would most likely fly that traffic pattern.
But before that, you would fly this so many (maybe 100-150) times with your instructor, that you will know it by heart.
Your first instructional flight (non-solo) will probably be in the Local Flying Area, where the instructor will show your the boundaries, landmarks, restricted zones etc.
Gerard
By now you may have realized that lots of people on here seem to know what they're talking about. Some of them do, some of them think they do, some of them are guessing and some just plain get it wrong. Most of them are pilots, some are instructors (with varying levels of qualifications and experience), some are examiners and a few have never flown. Some have been at it long enough to know that they still don't know everything, possibly not even enough to respond to some posts. It's possible that the wisest don't even come on here. There, I just put myself in my place.
What I'm trying to say is, throughout your flying life, be careful who you believe.
By now you may have realized that lots of people on here seem to know what they're talking about. Some of them do, some of them think they do, some of them are guessing and some just plain get it wrong. Most of them are pilots, some are instructors (with varying levels of qualifications and experience), some are examiners and a few have never flown. Some have been at it long enough to know that they still don't know everything, possibly not even enough to respond to some posts. It's possible that the wisest don't even come on here. There, I just put myself in my place.
What I'm trying to say is, throughout your flying life, be careful who you believe.
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can I just chip in, that during my first circuit days, the instructor always used a few local landmarks that will not be easy to spot on Flight Sim (even if you've bought the scenery add-on).
We had loads of little tricks, for example, "when those two lakes line up on your left-hand side, it's time to turn base". Lots of other small prompts as well such as "on final, you want to cross those power lines at approx 600ft QNH and then if you're happy with the approach select the final stage of flap".
So, what I'm trying to say, is that if you start trying to follow that blue line on flight sim you're probably wasting your time and will need to "unlearn" it all when you start circuit bashing in real life. By all means have a play around on flight sim after the lesson, but not before.
We had loads of little tricks, for example, "when those two lakes line up on your left-hand side, it's time to turn base". Lots of other small prompts as well such as "on final, you want to cross those power lines at approx 600ft QNH and then if you're happy with the approach select the final stage of flap".
So, what I'm trying to say, is that if you start trying to follow that blue line on flight sim you're probably wasting your time and will need to "unlearn" it all when you start circuit bashing in real life. By all means have a play around on flight sim after the lesson, but not before.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My £0.02
Hi gerardflyagain,
I learned to fly relatively late (first trial lesson at the age of 34, well, 3 days short really) and have tortured MSFS since I was 24. Although not nearly as experienced as most posters (just PPL(A)+IR(R) and some 260 flying hours) I can now say: These. Are. Two. Totally. Different. Worlds. Not easy to admit after wasting 10 years landing B737s on autoland.
The first time when MSFS genuinely helped me in real flying learning was at the later stages of my IR(R) course (used to be called IMC rating). Instrument flying was somehow better simulated on a flat screen with me sitting on a stationary chair, than visual flying, as instrument one requires you to (a) concentrate on instruments, (b) ignore the sensory "feelings" altogether (so it doesn't matter that much that you're sitting on a chair and not flying). In visual flying, although looking around can be simulated (and I have 3 screens) it simply isn't the same thing. No amount of kit, force feedback and graphics power will emulate a lookout during a steep turn when you're pulling 2g at the same time.
But that's just my 2p - it's your time, money and life, and your choice whom you believe, as others say.
Back to your original question. Your first solo flight will mostly likely be a single circuit to land, along the solid line, at altitude (not height) of 1000'. Further to that, your solo cross-country (which may be your 5th or 10th solo flight, time will tell) is likely to involve leaving the circuit after the first turn, along the dashed line, and via the relevant VRP. By then, you will know both VRPs by heart and have nightmares about the circuit exit and re-entry, due to having flown them with your instructor so many times.
At early stages of learning I was very similar - tried to do an awful lot between the lessons and couldn't wait for the next one. Fortunately my instructor was able to pacify me and convince me that if I really have the urge to do something, reading about the relevant exercise in Vol. 1 of my PPL textbook set was the best thing to do before next lesson. It was indeed.
I learned at Stapleford and am yet to visit Denham. Maybe one day.
Enjoy every minute of your flying course!
/h88
P.S. Thread drifting and perceived (rarely actual) hostility are inherent features of PPRuNe. You can't have the forum without these, just like you can't have a spin without a stall.
I learned to fly relatively late (first trial lesson at the age of 34, well, 3 days short really) and have tortured MSFS since I was 24. Although not nearly as experienced as most posters (just PPL(A)+IR(R) and some 260 flying hours) I can now say: These. Are. Two. Totally. Different. Worlds. Not easy to admit after wasting 10 years landing B737s on autoland.
The first time when MSFS genuinely helped me in real flying learning was at the later stages of my IR(R) course (used to be called IMC rating). Instrument flying was somehow better simulated on a flat screen with me sitting on a stationary chair, than visual flying, as instrument one requires you to (a) concentrate on instruments, (b) ignore the sensory "feelings" altogether (so it doesn't matter that much that you're sitting on a chair and not flying). In visual flying, although looking around can be simulated (and I have 3 screens) it simply isn't the same thing. No amount of kit, force feedback and graphics power will emulate a lookout during a steep turn when you're pulling 2g at the same time.
But that's just my 2p - it's your time, money and life, and your choice whom you believe, as others say.
Back to your original question. Your first solo flight will mostly likely be a single circuit to land, along the solid line, at altitude (not height) of 1000'. Further to that, your solo cross-country (which may be your 5th or 10th solo flight, time will tell) is likely to involve leaving the circuit after the first turn, along the dashed line, and via the relevant VRP. By then, you will know both VRPs by heart and have nightmares about the circuit exit and re-entry, due to having flown them with your instructor so many times.
At early stages of learning I was very similar - tried to do an awful lot between the lessons and couldn't wait for the next one. Fortunately my instructor was able to pacify me and convince me that if I really have the urge to do something, reading about the relevant exercise in Vol. 1 of my PPL textbook set was the best thing to do before next lesson. It was indeed.
I learned at Stapleford and am yet to visit Denham. Maybe one day.
Enjoy every minute of your flying course!
/h88
P.S. Thread drifting and perceived (rarely actual) hostility are inherent features of PPRuNe. You can't have the forum without these, just like you can't have a spin without a stall.