US IR for UK IMC qualified pilots
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US IR for UK IMC qualified pilots
I'm tempted to get an IR at some time in the future. Getting one in the UK under JAA is expensive and difficult (because you can only do CPL/IR's at the moment and I don't really want a CPL) so I think I'd be more likely to go to the States and get one there. I've got an IMC rating (although I never use it because my aeroplane isn't equipped with enough gadgets). Has anyone out there done a similar thing? How difficult are IR's to get in comparison to an IMC? How much does it cost, and how useful is it to be able to fly airways in this country anyway?
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The course is about the same as an IMC (assuming you did that IMC in the UK - and not over here).
Few more hours, of course, but not more to it.
Cost, I have no idea...e-mail a few schools - or look on their websites.
Value in the UK?? Depends on what you want to fly. If you fly G reg aircraft then it will give you IMC rating privileges - which you already have. Nothing else.
If you fly N reg aircraft, you can fly it in any airway anywhere in the World.
If you do not have access to an N reg aircraft - it is probably worthless (to you).
Few more hours, of course, but not more to it.
Cost, I have no idea...e-mail a few schools - or look on their websites.
Value in the UK?? Depends on what you want to fly. If you fly G reg aircraft then it will give you IMC rating privileges - which you already have. Nothing else.
If you fly N reg aircraft, you can fly it in any airway anywhere in the World.
If you do not have access to an N reg aircraft - it is probably worthless (to you).
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I know to use the privileges of a US IR you need to fly an N registered aeroplane (ooops sorry, airplane), but from what I've heard, it isn't that expensive to keep an aeroplane on the N register. I have also heard that being on the N register also helps with some maintenance costs as well.
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The course is about the same as an IMC (assuming you did that IMC in the UK - and not over here).
You have to complete the FAA written exams, which are not too hard if you know your onions, then you'll be given an oral exam which can be a bit of a bitch, followed by the skills test. Prior to the skills test the examiner will ask you to plan an IFR cross country trip, which he normally goes through with you and may use for the basis of the oral exam...When it comes to the skills test be prepared for anything as there is no set order for things to happen. For my test, I flew from Long Beach to Cable / Brackett IFR, shot the VOR approach into Brackett, executed missed approach, cancelled IFR and was asked to carry out steep turns, followed by unusual attitudes, then holding procedures, then a 5 DME arc around SLI vortac, ILS into Fullerton or somewhere, missed approach, VOR into LGB. The whole flight took around 2 hours.
Me and my mate went over last October and it basically took us 3 weeks to get the IR. It was hard work though, we both had virtually nil instrument time, and were short of FAA cross country time. Before you take the IR check ride you need to have 50 hours cross country (over 50 nm from point of departure to destination airport), so a lot of our training was carried out cross country (saw a lot of nice restaraunts though). My hardest day was leaving LGB at 16:00, flying IFR to Phoenix, then returning....7 hours of flying IFR, I think I got home at about 2-3am....
As far as costs go, you're looking at $75 / hour for aircraft rental and another $30 / hr for the instructor. If you already have instrument time, which you do, then this can count towards the 40 hrs. Also the FAA state that up to 20 hrs of the 40 hours can be completed in an approved training device (simulator), which costs around $30 per hour plus the instructor. On top of this you have a $75 written exam fee, plus a $300 skills test fee. I did all my training in an aircraft rather than the sim, which I'm glad about, the exposure we got to the US ATC / IFR system has been invaluable.
Total cost for me, around $4500, probably less for you. And I have just read another thread which states the JAA will give credit for an ICAO IR holder against the JAA IR, so if in the future you decide to go for the JAA one, the costs will be a lot less. In the meantime though the CAA will issue the IMC rating for free (well £64)....
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EA
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RR
It is now possible to do the IR writtens rather than the CPL writtens because some training organisations now have the courses available for PPL/IR under JAA. I understand that these may be done by distance learning. The PPLIR website (pplir.org) has lots of useful stuff on flying IFR in Europe.
It is now possible to do the IR writtens rather than the CPL writtens because some training organisations now have the courses available for PPL/IR under JAA. I understand that these may be done by distance learning. The PPLIR website (pplir.org) has lots of useful stuff on flying IFR in Europe.
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USA IR E-Z , time for a re-think
In terms of time , money and hassel the IR in the USA is the easy option but if you think that it will be easy in terms of flying skills then think one more time !.
The FAA do not give these things away in corn flake packets.
The exam is very practical and unlike the CAA flight test that you know what is going to happen next and is full of theoretical bull the FAA flight test demands that you think on your feet in real time.
My test ran like this .........all engines ILS......one engine NDB and GA to divert to an airport that I had never seen .....one engine hold and NDB to a GA .......return to first airport with a VOR with a circle to land (single engine of course !).
This seems to be the way of the FAA the flight engineer exams also had the lack of bull and the strong emphasis on the practical.
The FAA do not give these things away in corn flake packets.
The exam is very practical and unlike the CAA flight test that you know what is going to happen next and is full of theoretical bull the FAA flight test demands that you think on your feet in real time.
My test ran like this .........all engines ILS......one engine NDB and GA to divert to an airport that I had never seen .....one engine hold and NDB to a GA .......return to first airport with a VOR with a circle to land (single engine of course !).
This seems to be the way of the FAA the flight engineer exams also had the lack of bull and the strong emphasis on the practical.
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As others above have said, it is NOT the easy option. I did the FAA IR in Florida earlier this year, and the standards are way higher than the IMC rating. How they compare with the JAA IR I don't know (not having the spare sack of gold to pay for all the extra training that requires). The FAA IR is certainly based on practical piloting skills and situational awareness.
The oral is about as tough as any exam you will ever do, and the flying requires you to demonstrate *everything* in the Practical Test Standards. Even the JAA IR doesn't do that.
If you have an N-reg aircraft, it gives you the same privileges as a JAA IR in a G-reg. And you don't read of US commercial aircraft getting into difficulties because the FAA IR is so "easy", do you!
The oral is about as tough as any exam you will ever do, and the flying requires you to demonstrate *everything* in the Practical Test Standards. Even the JAA IR doesn't do that.
If you have an N-reg aircraft, it gives you the same privileges as a JAA IR in a G-reg. And you don't read of US commercial aircraft getting into difficulties because the FAA IR is so "easy", do you!
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R-R
Having gone with Keef to Naples Air Center in Florida to (successfully) get the FAA/IR inFeb this year I can agree with most of what's been said.
Iwas expecting to knock it off in 10 days or so having had a UK IMC rating for 8 years, leaving me a few days for some aeros or a twin (JAA) rating, but I wasn't prepared for the exacting thoroughness of the instructors.
Its not that it's difficult, its just that 'nearly good enough' wasn't good enough for the instructors.
In the end I took the whole fortnight, even with allowances for my UK/IMC hours.
I was fortunate to have five days in real IMC, thanks to some unseasonal Florida weather, with 40 kt headwinds on the cross-country, and a close encounter with a lightning bolt while in an \IMC NDB hold at Fort Myers.
I fly a UK reg a/c in UK with no plans for US reg change.
So was it 'useless' ( to quote above) for me.
Sure wasn't --- it improved my IMC flying 100 fold, and my IMC confidence by a similar figure.
Probably because, unlike the IMC test where you get a choice of procedures, in the FAA/IR you know you're going to get the whole damn lot, so it concentrates the mind beautifully.
A few tips.
Do the writtens exam over here before you go (I used Tom Hughston of American Flight Training at Norwich.) And do a mock exam first. This highlights any big gaps: Tom will then give you an hour or so ground school, prior to the real test. Allow at least a half day and about GBP90.00 (Pass rate is 75%.)
But before you do that , realise that the exam is not a Micky Mouse pushover;
Do some serious reading first, TomMarchado's book is a serious light read, and the Asa books give questions from the FAA/IR exam database.(published annually)
Know you way around the USA Continental map: it can be a bit depressing in a timed exam to be asked to comment on a weather feature over Nebraska when you've no bl**dy idea where Nebraska is.
Get as high a score as you can in the written test as your 'Pass' certificate which you have to take with you has a code number on it for each question you cocked up, which your oral examiner will see and these can legitimately form part of the oral.
Go to a good school in USA and wait till your instructor says you are ready to do the Oral and Flight test.
Each can last up to two hours and each can be terminated instantly at any stage by the examiner.
Did I regard it as a useful exercise of time- you bet your sweet bippy I did.
Total cost, including good hotel accomodation about USD4,800.00
(some schools offer cheaper appartment accomodation, but I like my creature comforts (Eh, Keef?)
I personally recommend Naples Air Center, but wherever you go read the US Visa regulations: we just slipped in under the wire: now its much more stringent.
And when you get the FAA/IR just point out to the 'its only worth a JAA IMC brigade' that there are shed loads of US airline pilots in the sky as I type with the self same rating so it can't all be bad.
Whatever you do - enjoy!
Safe flying
Cusco
Having gone with Keef to Naples Air Center in Florida to (successfully) get the FAA/IR inFeb this year I can agree with most of what's been said.
Iwas expecting to knock it off in 10 days or so having had a UK IMC rating for 8 years, leaving me a few days for some aeros or a twin (JAA) rating, but I wasn't prepared for the exacting thoroughness of the instructors.
Its not that it's difficult, its just that 'nearly good enough' wasn't good enough for the instructors.
In the end I took the whole fortnight, even with allowances for my UK/IMC hours.
I was fortunate to have five days in real IMC, thanks to some unseasonal Florida weather, with 40 kt headwinds on the cross-country, and a close encounter with a lightning bolt while in an \IMC NDB hold at Fort Myers.
I fly a UK reg a/c in UK with no plans for US reg change.
So was it 'useless' ( to quote above) for me.
Sure wasn't --- it improved my IMC flying 100 fold, and my IMC confidence by a similar figure.
Probably because, unlike the IMC test where you get a choice of procedures, in the FAA/IR you know you're going to get the whole damn lot, so it concentrates the mind beautifully.
A few tips.
Do the writtens exam over here before you go (I used Tom Hughston of American Flight Training at Norwich.) And do a mock exam first. This highlights any big gaps: Tom will then give you an hour or so ground school, prior to the real test. Allow at least a half day and about GBP90.00 (Pass rate is 75%.)
But before you do that , realise that the exam is not a Micky Mouse pushover;
Do some serious reading first, TomMarchado's book is a serious light read, and the Asa books give questions from the FAA/IR exam database.(published annually)
Know you way around the USA Continental map: it can be a bit depressing in a timed exam to be asked to comment on a weather feature over Nebraska when you've no bl**dy idea where Nebraska is.
Get as high a score as you can in the written test as your 'Pass' certificate which you have to take with you has a code number on it for each question you cocked up, which your oral examiner will see and these can legitimately form part of the oral.
Go to a good school in USA and wait till your instructor says you are ready to do the Oral and Flight test.
Each can last up to two hours and each can be terminated instantly at any stage by the examiner.
Did I regard it as a useful exercise of time- you bet your sweet bippy I did.
Total cost, including good hotel accomodation about USD4,800.00
(some schools offer cheaper appartment accomodation, but I like my creature comforts (Eh, Keef?)
I personally recommend Naples Air Center, but wherever you go read the US Visa regulations: we just slipped in under the wire: now its much more stringent.
And when you get the FAA/IR just point out to the 'its only worth a JAA IMC brigade' that there are shed loads of US airline pilots in the sky as I type with the self same rating so it can't all be bad.
Whatever you do - enjoy!
Safe flying
Cusco
Last edited by Cusco; 25th Jun 2002 at 01:02.
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Now, now, boys and girls - I get the impression that a momentary action of self-defence may be called for here.
Words are being twisted - or misread, either deliberately or accidental.
When I said about the FAA I/R course being about the same as a UK IMC (done in the UK, with a UK instructor [who understands the rating you are training for]) - I meant in terms of (flying) workload and skills required - and I still stick by that. Before Cusco and Keef etc. start squealing that they have both an FAA I/R and a UK IMC, so do I - and a UK I/R, too.
What I didn't say was that the groundschool is much harder - and this is partly due to lack of experience with Federal airspace and procedures. Before your IMC courses and tests you probably built up some (however little) flight experience in the UK - and you are (hopefully) familiar with things like Lapform 214 and 215. Over here, there is none of that - and, as suggested by Cusco, you get zapped with geographically based questions - not easy for us Limeys.
The CAA flight test assumes you are acting as pilot in command - hence you get a briefing before hand of the flight profile, so that you can have a mental picture of what you are trying to do....and you get to choose the approach - just as you would if you really were PIC. If that approach is not available you figure it out for yourself.
A and C - could I ask you two things?? Genuine questions - not trying to catch you with anything. Firstly what "theoretical bull" did you encounter when you did your own CAA IMC test - and secondly, what aircraft type did you use for the test...can I slide in a third question.....what altitude did you go down to on one engine during the approaches, before the Go Around??
Back to the plot.....Romeo.....you comment in your initial posting at not having many gadgets to play with. So why an instrument rating then?? You need a full IFR kit (two altimeters and FM immune radios) to go play in the airways............and some de-icing equipment would be nice (if not anti-icing) if you want to use UK airways - which was your original question.
You also ask
and that is what prompted the reply "worthless".
The training , I have to agree with Cusco, is invaluable - but you asked about the rating and that, I believe, is worthless for what you want to do with it
Skills - yes....value - none. You need to have the right aircraft, with the right kit, the right experience - and THE NEED to fly the aircraft in IMC. If you are staying at PPL level is it really worth the cost of completing a foreign instrument rating for your pleasure flying around the UK in an ill equipped aircraft??
I don't devalue the FAA I/R in the slightest - it works perfectly well, and I agree with the principle of "why don't all the American airplanes crash at Heathrow" argument...........but I don't see it having a USE in your PPL folder.
Do the training, by all means - you can learn a tremendous amount..........but why learn to fly a single engine approach in a twin engine aircraft into Fort Myers when you are going to fly single engine aircraft around the UK?? Heathrow is, I believe, the only airfield within the London and Scottish FIR's (which is the only place your IMC is valid), that you cannot legally fly into under IMC conditions without a full blown Instrument Rating - and I'm pretty sure that if you needed to do it in an emergency, they would let you go there anyway.
TRAINING - invaluable. RATING - worthless (for what YOU want to do with it).
You haven't yet started on the questions of keeping it current???
Words are being twisted - or misread, either deliberately or accidental.
When I said about the FAA I/R course being about the same as a UK IMC (done in the UK, with a UK instructor [who understands the rating you are training for]) - I meant in terms of (flying) workload and skills required - and I still stick by that. Before Cusco and Keef etc. start squealing that they have both an FAA I/R and a UK IMC, so do I - and a UK I/R, too.
What I didn't say was that the groundschool is much harder - and this is partly due to lack of experience with Federal airspace and procedures. Before your IMC courses and tests you probably built up some (however little) flight experience in the UK - and you are (hopefully) familiar with things like Lapform 214 and 215. Over here, there is none of that - and, as suggested by Cusco, you get zapped with geographically based questions - not easy for us Limeys.
The CAA flight test assumes you are acting as pilot in command - hence you get a briefing before hand of the flight profile, so that you can have a mental picture of what you are trying to do....and you get to choose the approach - just as you would if you really were PIC. If that approach is not available you figure it out for yourself.
A and C - could I ask you two things?? Genuine questions - not trying to catch you with anything. Firstly what "theoretical bull" did you encounter when you did your own CAA IMC test - and secondly, what aircraft type did you use for the test...can I slide in a third question.....what altitude did you go down to on one engine during the approaches, before the Go Around??
Back to the plot.....Romeo.....you comment in your initial posting at not having many gadgets to play with. So why an instrument rating then?? You need a full IFR kit (two altimeters and FM immune radios) to go play in the airways............and some de-icing equipment would be nice (if not anti-icing) if you want to use UK airways - which was your original question.
You also ask
and how useful is it to be able to fly airways in this country anyway?
The training , I have to agree with Cusco, is invaluable - but you asked about the rating and that, I believe, is worthless for what you want to do with it
Skills - yes....value - none. You need to have the right aircraft, with the right kit, the right experience - and THE NEED to fly the aircraft in IMC. If you are staying at PPL level is it really worth the cost of completing a foreign instrument rating for your pleasure flying around the UK in an ill equipped aircraft??
I don't devalue the FAA I/R in the slightest - it works perfectly well, and I agree with the principle of "why don't all the American airplanes crash at Heathrow" argument...........but I don't see it having a USE in your PPL folder.
Do the training, by all means - you can learn a tremendous amount..........but why learn to fly a single engine approach in a twin engine aircraft into Fort Myers when you are going to fly single engine aircraft around the UK?? Heathrow is, I believe, the only airfield within the London and Scottish FIR's (which is the only place your IMC is valid), that you cannot legally fly into under IMC conditions without a full blown Instrument Rating - and I'm pretty sure that if you needed to do it in an emergency, they would let you go there anyway.
TRAINING - invaluable. RATING - worthless (for what YOU want to do with it).
You haven't yet started on the questions of keeping it current???
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When I said about the FAA I/R course being about the same as a UK IMC (done in the UK, with a UK instructor [who understands the rating you are training for]) - I meant in terms of (flying) workload and skills required - and I still stick by that.
Per your statement, the freshly minted IMC pilot has the same flying skills as the freshly minted FAA IR pilot. How do you reconcile the fact that the IMC requires 15 hours and the FAA IR 40 hours?
Do you think you could ship the new 15 hood hour IMC guy over to the US and he would be able to pass the FAA IR PTS?
I simply just don't believe a guy with 15 hours under the hood could pass the practical englishal described.
My personal opinion is that you can teach the procedures in 15-20 hours, but not to FAA PTS standards. That takes a bit longer, and of course you spend 10 hours (lets say) on the x-countries.
I also think that single engine IFR in the weather found in England is quite reasonable. Plenty of places in the US have worse flying weather than the UK, and if you are not an idiot or very unlucky you will do fine.
Heathrow is, I believe, the only airfield within the London and Scottish FIR's (which is the only place your IMC is valid), that you cannot legally fly into under IMC conditions without a full blown Instrument Rating
I don't have a CAA IMC rating, and probably never will, but from what I read on the Net, the privileges it grants within these areas don't appear to be "true IMC". From what I find, visibility has to be above 3km. That means you have to be clear of clouds, can probably also see the ground, and so you are not totally on instruments. Take off and landing visibility with an IMC below cloud is 1800m. If that is correct you certainly cannot fly in clouds, unlike an FAA IR can in controlled airspace, including that around an airfield field. I can even fly with just a FAA private pilots licence in an airfield environment with less visibility!! (Special VFR, 1.6km visibility, clear of clouds).
If I misread anything you said or misunderstand IMC privileges then I will be delighted to stand corrected.[
Per your statement, the freshly minted IMC pilot has the same flying skills as the freshly minted FAA IR pilot. How do you reconcile the fact that the IMC requires 15 hours and the FAA IR 40 hours?
Do you think you could ship the new 15 hood hour IMC guy over to the US and he would be able to pass the FAA IR PTS?
I simply just don't believe a guy with 15 hours under the hood could pass the practical englishal described.
My personal opinion is that you can teach the procedures in 15-20 hours, but not to FAA PTS standards. That takes a bit longer, and of course you spend 10 hours (lets say) on the x-countries.
I also think that single engine IFR in the weather found in England is quite reasonable. Plenty of places in the US have worse flying weather than the UK, and if you are not an idiot or very unlucky you will do fine.
Heathrow is, I believe, the only airfield within the London and Scottish FIR's (which is the only place your IMC is valid), that you cannot legally fly into under IMC conditions without a full blown Instrument Rating
I don't have a CAA IMC rating, and probably never will, but from what I read on the Net, the privileges it grants within these areas don't appear to be "true IMC". From what I find, visibility has to be above 3km. That means you have to be clear of clouds, can probably also see the ground, and so you are not totally on instruments. Take off and landing visibility with an IMC below cloud is 1800m. If that is correct you certainly cannot fly in clouds, unlike an FAA IR can in controlled airspace, including that around an airfield field. I can even fly with just a FAA private pilots licence in an airfield environment with less visibility!! (Special VFR, 1.6km visibility, clear of clouds).
If I misread anything you said or misunderstand IMC privileges then I will be delighted to stand corrected.[
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Keef/Cusco
Now that you've got the IR (an ambition of mine one day), are you attempting to keep it - both in terms of passing the checkrides to keep it legally valid and in keeping your skills in practice? How easy is it to keep an FAA IR valid in the UK?
Now that you've got the IR (an ambition of mine one day), are you attempting to keep it - both in terms of passing the checkrides to keep it legally valid and in keeping your skills in practice? How easy is it to keep an FAA IR valid in the UK?
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How easy is it to keep an FAA IR valid in the UK?
As easy as it in the US, though doubtless somewhat more expensive. Here is a user friendly guide, you can find the FARs on the faa.gov web site. Just complete the requirements and log it. No need to do it in US airspace or in an N reg plane.
IFR Currency Requirements
As easy as it in the US, though doubtless somewhat more expensive. Here is a user friendly guide, you can find the FARs on the faa.gov web site. Just complete the requirements and log it. No need to do it in US airspace or in an N reg plane.
IFR Currency Requirements
Every six months you need to perform at least six instrument approaches, holding procedures, and intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigation systems. Failing that, you have, as was the case with the old regs, another six months to get current before having to take an instrument proficiency check. During that six months you may not file IFR.
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I have just renewed mine and opted for a full weekend with the aforementioned Tom Hughson up at Norwich, he certainly put me through the mill but bloody good fun and I certainly came away exhausted afterwards! You dont have to do it this way if you shoot the approaches yourself within 6 months as its self certifying but I just love pain
Gonewest - you may want to read the thread in 'Wannabes' as the rating is actually very usful now - the goalposts have been moved. You now get credit for holding an ICAO foreign IR rating!!! No point spending £12k on one here anymore!!!
And if you arent going that far up the ratings ladder its still useful as you can get hold on N reg hire aircraft and file IFR outside UK airspace such as during trips to France, not all of us fly in circles round the local airfield.
Julian.
Gonewest - you may want to read the thread in 'Wannabes' as the rating is actually very usful now - the goalposts have been moved. You now get credit for holding an ICAO foreign IR rating!!! No point spending £12k on one here anymore!!!
And if you arent going that far up the ratings ladder its still useful as you can get hold on N reg hire aircraft and file IFR outside UK airspace such as during trips to France, not all of us fly in circles round the local airfield.
Julian.
I don't have a CAA IMC rating, and probably never will, but from what I read on the Net, the privileges it grants within these areas don't appear to be "true IMC". From what I find, visibility has to be above 3km. That means you have to be clear of clouds, can probably also see the ground, and so you are not totally on instruments. Take off and landing visibility with an IMC below cloud is 1800m. If that is correct you certainly cannot fly in clouds, unlike an FAA IR can in controlled airspace, including that around an airfield field. I can even fly with just a FAA private pilots licence in an airfield environment with less visibility!! (Special VFR, 1.6km visibility, clear of clouds).
If I misread anything you said or misunderstand IMC privileges then I will be delighted to stand corrected.
If I misread anything you said or misunderstand IMC privileges then I will be delighted to stand corrected.
An IMC-rated pilot in classes D to G airspace is limited only by the restriction that the visibility for take-off and landing must be at least 1800 m. Flight can certainly be in IMC, and in cloud. Apart from the visibility restriction, it differs from the privileges of the IR only in that IFR in classes A to C are not permitted (as well as a slightly quirky increase in vis for SVFR to 3 km).
The details are in Schedule 8 of the ANO.
Moral: Don't believe everything you read on the Net.
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A couple of additional thoughts. Firstly as we all know the IMC rating is strictly only valid in the UK (although I have heard rumours yet to be confirmed that the Germans and French may take a different view). Therefore if you can operate on the N reg at least you can continue to fly in lower airspace in poorer conditions even if you are not able to operate airways because of lack of aircraft performance or of de/anti icing etc. Secondly there are those occasions in the UK where the flight can be executed more comfortably and safely in class A that would otherwise not be available.
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Its very easy to keep the FAA IR current. All you need is you and your pilot mate. So long as you have 6 approaches, navigation by use of navaids, and holding procedures in you log book for the past 6 months, then you are current. You fly under the hood while your mate keep a good look out. And if your mate happens to be flying under the FAR's the time he or she spends as safety pilot can count as PIC for them.
Painless really.
Cheers
EA
Painless really.
Cheers
EA
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GoneWest - nice rhetoric, but wrong.
I did the IMC rating, and used it in anger and frequently (deliberately). That IN NO WAY prepared me for what I was expected to do in terms of accuracy of flying for the FAA IR.
The "US geography and charts etc differences" are minor compared with the "quality of flying" requirements. Maybe NAC and the FAA examiner I had weren't typical - I dunno - but they certainly expected far better than the IMC rating examiner and renewal CFIs here.
Yes, I do plan to keep the FAA IR current. Most trips of any distance with another of our group, I take my hood and do the necessary tracking, holds, approaches, etc.
The plan - soon- is to put the group aircraft onto the N-reg, which will mean we can fly IFR outside the UK.
I did the IMC rating, and used it in anger and frequently (deliberately). That IN NO WAY prepared me for what I was expected to do in terms of accuracy of flying for the FAA IR.
The "US geography and charts etc differences" are minor compared with the "quality of flying" requirements. Maybe NAC and the FAA examiner I had weren't typical - I dunno - but they certainly expected far better than the IMC rating examiner and renewal CFIs here.
Yes, I do plan to keep the FAA IR current. Most trips of any distance with another of our group, I take my hood and do the necessary tracking, holds, approaches, etc.
The plan - soon- is to put the group aircraft onto the N-reg, which will mean we can fly IFR outside the UK.
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IMC Rating outside the UK
Pre-JAA, Germany had a rating called a CVFR (Controlled VFR) which was needed to fly in - I think - Class D and higher airspace. I don't know if it still exists under JAA.
Anyway, an IMC rating was accepted, in those days, as being equivalent to a CVFR rating.
I've not heard anything about CVFR or IMC since JAA. Bookworm is the only person I know who might...
Anyway, an IMC rating was accepted, in those days, as being equivalent to a CVFR rating.
I've not heard anything about CVFR or IMC since JAA. Bookworm is the only person I know who might...
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I know one thing and thats that after 15 hours into the IR course I did not feel ready to be let lose in full IMC conditions!
The FAA IR is a damn good course and I was lucky to do a lot of it actual IMC conditions. Its is also bloody hard and I think to say its the same as the IMC is either being economic with the truth or they cut a lot of your course out! I was undertaking new exercises every day as well as brushing up on previously practiced ones, how you can do that in 15 hours I will never know.
The FAA IR is a damn good course and I was lucky to do a lot of it actual IMC conditions. Its is also bloody hard and I think to say its the same as the IMC is either being economic with the truth or they cut a lot of your course out! I was undertaking new exercises every day as well as brushing up on previously practiced ones, how you can do that in 15 hours I will never know.
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bookworm
I'm pleased to be able to delight you then!
Thankyou!
Also thanks for pointing me to the definitive source on the internet HSMO.
Having read that I admit to being confused, but that's fine. Not only is the SVFR visibility rules a quirk, the whole airspace classification system seems strange, but that's fine too! I have flown in hard IMC in class E airspace in the UK (with suitably rated individual in G reg plane), and not liked the fact that I am responsible for separation in clouds, but I guess that's how it goes.
I get the impression that the "powers that be" are being pragmatic with the English weather so they have allowed people to fly in clouds. As long as you don't "mix it" with the big boys and hurt somebody in their "positively controlled" airspace they don't appear to be too worried. I guess its a tacit admission that the IMC is sub ICAO IR, or else they would let IMC holders play in the airways
Can I ask a stupid question? What is the definition of a control zone? Is that just somewhere you need a clearance to enter, like an airway (is that class B in the UK???) Would class D airspace around a towered field be a control zone?
regards
I'm pleased to be able to delight you then!
Thankyou!
Also thanks for pointing me to the definitive source on the internet HSMO.
Having read that I admit to being confused, but that's fine. Not only is the SVFR visibility rules a quirk, the whole airspace classification system seems strange, but that's fine too! I have flown in hard IMC in class E airspace in the UK (with suitably rated individual in G reg plane), and not liked the fact that I am responsible for separation in clouds, but I guess that's how it goes.
I get the impression that the "powers that be" are being pragmatic with the English weather so they have allowed people to fly in clouds. As long as you don't "mix it" with the big boys and hurt somebody in their "positively controlled" airspace they don't appear to be too worried. I guess its a tacit admission that the IMC is sub ICAO IR, or else they would let IMC holders play in the airways
Can I ask a stupid question? What is the definition of a control zone? Is that just somewhere you need a clearance to enter, like an airway (is that class B in the UK???) Would class D airspace around a towered field be a control zone?
regards