Biggin Hill PPR
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I've just used the new PPR system for the first time and must say I think it's a pain 
The problem isn't that they want PPR on incomings, and a proper book out on outgoings: I can understand that. It's the web based method that I dislike.
Mostly, I imagine it will work OK; but, as opposed to the systems at other similar airports where you call up and speak to a human being, the email acknowledgement you get tells you that you should normally receive an acceptance or rejection in half an hour but, if it takes longer than 2 hours to see one of their FAQs. That means you can't rely on flying in or out at short notice.
Frankly, I think it's an over-complicated and clunky system that should be re-thought.
The problem isn't that they want PPR on incomings, and a proper book out on outgoings: I can understand that. It's the web based method that I dislike.
Mostly, I imagine it will work OK; but, as opposed to the systems at other similar airports where you call up and speak to a human being, the email acknowledgement you get tells you that you should normally receive an acceptance or rejection in half an hour but, if it takes longer than 2 hours to see one of their FAQs. That means you can't rely on flying in or out at short notice.
Frankly, I think it's an over-complicated and clunky system that should be re-thought.
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I don't agree: I can understand why they need PPR, and think that the system they introduced was probably done in the way that they did it because they thought it would be efficient. From a pilot's perspective, at least, IMHO it isn't.
My home airport, Cambridge, introduced PPR for VFR flights a while ago to help them cope with ATC staffing issues and, despite a fair bit of criticism both here and on other fora, the system they introduced which requires a simple phone call direct to ATC works well.
As stated above: I think the new system at Biggin is probably intended to achieve this efficiently, but just doesn't work as envisaged. I have good reason to believe that it's not popular with a large proportion of the people at Biggin and can't imagine that it's a big hit with other pilots either.
Given the nature of Biggin's traffic, I would expect that a significant part of their traffic is IFR on a flight plan which circumvents the requirement for PPR anyway; so I don't think that workload is much of a reason for implementing the requirement for PPR it in the way that they have.
As a long term frequent user of Biggin (and I can't speak highly enough of the service I always get from them!
) I've written to the person responsible for the new system to suggest a rethink. If others here share my dislike of the new system, can I suggest that they do the same instead of, or in addition to 
, just commenting here?
My home airport, Cambridge, introduced PPR for VFR flights a while ago to help them cope with ATC staffing issues and, despite a fair bit of criticism both here and on other fora, the system they introduced which requires a simple phone call direct to ATC works well.
As stated above: I think the new system at Biggin is probably intended to achieve this efficiently, but just doesn't work as envisaged. I have good reason to believe that it's not popular with a large proportion of the people at Biggin and can't imagine that it's a big hit with other pilots either.
Given the nature of Biggin's traffic, I would expect that a significant part of their traffic is IFR on a flight plan which circumvents the requirement for PPR anyway; so I don't think that workload is much of a reason for implementing the requirement for PPR it in the way that they have.
As a long term frequent user of Biggin (and I can't speak highly enough of the service I always get from them!
) I've written to the person responsible for the new system to suggest a rethink. If others here share my dislike of the new system, can I suggest that they do the same instead of, or in addition to , just commenting here?
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I would expect that a significant part of their traffic is IFR on a flight plan which circumvents the requirement for PPR anyway; so I don't think that workload is much of a reason for implementing the requirement for PPR it in the way that they have.
What I am try, and failing, to get across is the mistaken belief that they're introducing PPR for the usual workload reasons. They're not. They're introducing PPR as one of several methods to discourage SEPs at the airport.
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What I am try, and failing, to get across is the mistaken belief that they're introducing PPR for the usual workload reasons. They're not. They're introducing PPR as one of several methods to discourage SEPs at the airport.
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What I am try, and failing, to get across is the mistaken belief that they're introducing PPR for the usual workload reasons. They're not. They're introducing PPR as one of several methods to discourage SEPs at the airport.
On one occasion, when the weather went really bonkers, they even moved my aircraft off the apron where it was parked into a hangar without my having to ask and didn't charge a penny for doing so. Before I departed, still in pouring rain, they told me to do my external checks in the hangar, and then towed me out sitting in the plane so I wouldn't get wet.
All that said: I still think the new PPR system sucks!
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Well I've just done as you suggest and can only see that suggestion made specifically about Biggin by one poster other than you and then without much in the way of supporting detail.
Whilst going through the thread, I came across this comment of yours:
Actually, to give just two examples of airports I use frequently, at both Cambridge and Prestwick it works exactly like that.
Whilst going through the thread, I came across this comment of yours:
No-one is suggesting a flight plan typically negates the need for PPR elsewhere. Only at Biggin.
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Grief... Fine. Have it your way.
Take it up with alex90 and chevron
I will second Chevvron on his reply, PPR is one thing, a flight plan is a completely different thing.
Simply filing a flight plan does not constitute a request for PPR; if you don't believe me, try filing a flight plan into Farnborough without PPR!
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With respect: I didn't say that filing a flight plan ALWAYS negates the need for PPR; I was disagreeing with your point that it's ONLY at Biggin. I simply gave two examples where it's different and am sure there are lots of others.
As for flying into Farnborough: given the landing fees there, I think it will be a long time before I want to do that
As for flying into Farnborough: given the landing fees there, I think it will be a long time before I want to do that
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What all this highlights is that in the UK we have a chaotic lack of a system for determining whether or not we can use a particular aerodrome. The only law that I can determine is that one must have the land-owner's permission to use that land. This might be a 'blanket' permission making everyone welcome without any pre-condition or radio call (I've landed at more than one strip with no-one in attendance or ANY kind of specific permission simply because the land-owner has let it be known that one can do so) right up to the other end of the scale where anything short of a full emergency, hell will freeze over before you could get in with a SEP. It seems in some parts of the world, you just call a few miles out and in you come (can't believe that REALLY works at EVERY aerodrome in the United States, but that's what some people seem to suggest).
Personally, I always call ahead by phone just to make sure the place is open, weather's OK etc. Sometimes they just say 'don't need your details, just call on the radio' but at least I've a reasonable expectation of conditions. That's notwithstanding that the aircraft in front of me blocks the runway with a burst tyre causing me to divert to my planned alternate, of course!
Ref. Biggin Hill, I've been flying in and out of the place for the past 35 years; mostly for maintenance and it's always been a busy place needing some planning and forethought. I've never seen it as a place where you can just say 'oh, I think I'll pop across to Biggin on the Bump for a cuppa'.
TOO
Personally, I always call ahead by phone just to make sure the place is open, weather's OK etc. Sometimes they just say 'don't need your details, just call on the radio' but at least I've a reasonable expectation of conditions. That's notwithstanding that the aircraft in front of me blocks the runway with a burst tyre causing me to divert to my planned alternate, of course!
Ref. Biggin Hill, I've been flying in and out of the place for the past 35 years; mostly for maintenance and it's always been a busy place needing some planning and forethought. I've never seen it as a place where you can just say 'oh, I think I'll pop across to Biggin on the Bump for a cuppa'.
TOO
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'oh, I think I'll pop across to Biggin on the Bump for a cuppa'
Although I would disagree that "it's always been a busy place needing some planning and forethought" but then again that is where I learnt so perhaps I am a little bias!
With regards to flight-plans & PPR - I have always considered both to be completely different from one another. Some places work with one or both, some don't. Biggin says that it does not require PPR if a flight plan has been filed then it doesn't! But other places will...(and do) Doesn't it sound silly though, to file a flight plan without the knowledge that you are allowed to land there?
