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45 hours military light a/c flying -> PPL

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45 hours military light a/c flying -> PPL

Old 1st Aug 2015, 23:47
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 4
45 hours military light a/c flying -> PPL

Hello all, hope this is the correct area to post rather than the professional training forum!

I've recently come out of the RAF with 45 instructional hours and an additional 12 hours solo under my belt on the Grob Tutor, a single-engine prop aircraft which is a joy to fly (I think, not flown anything else).

The 45 hours include general handling, PFLs, both medium-level and low-level navigation, IF, aeros and formation flying. I'm interested in gaining a PPL and am wondering how these hours can be used to contribute to PPL hours. Word on the street is they can be used but I'd like to hear from someone involved in civilian instruction.

I've found these requirements online:

  • 45 hours total flying time*
  • 25 hours dual instruction*
  • 10 hours of solo flight*
  • 5 hours solo cross country
  • 1 cross country trip at least 150nm, landing at 2 other aerodromes
  • 1 hour instrument appreciation*
  • Class 2 Aviation Medical (completed before flying solo)
  • 9 Multiple Choice Ground Exams
  • Radio Telephany Practical Exam
  • General Handling Skills Test
Asterisked bullets are those which I've achieved with the RAF. Would it just be a case of completing a ConvEx onto the new a/c type, getting a Class 2 medical, completing the exams and then filling in what I haven't done in the air (i.e. the solo cross country and a bigger cross country trip)? I've lurked PPRuNe for years and had a good look around but can't seem to find any info relating to this.

I realise I can just pop into a local flying school and query this, but I wouldn't mind having an idea first.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can impart, chaps.
SPQR92 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 09:17
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lechlade, Glos.UK
Posts: 679
Some of it might count. You need to send your logbook to the CAA with a covering letter.
sharpend is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 09:23
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK, or thereabouts
Posts: 181
This might help

dagowly is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 10:23
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Where in the country are you based? PM if you prefer.
Aubrey. is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 11:33
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: lancs.UK
Age: 72
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Elementary, I know, but for goodness sake copy/scan everything
NEVER EVER trust any jobsworth officialdom.
When they foul-up, it's very easy to "lose" your paperwork or totally deny ever having had it in the first place.

Of course, they're all scrupulously honest,diligent and supremely competent and never ever make mistakes....the previous paragraph is all a figment of my over-active imagination.
cockney steve is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 14:30
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford
Posts: 2,022
RAFFCA would indeed be a good start but NB the OP does not have QSP status (wings) just a bit of experience.
tmmorris is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 14:56
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: I have no idea but the view's great.
Posts: 1,221

Go to the CAA website, download CAP804, look at Part O - that gives details on the Military Accreditation Scheme (MAS).

Hope that's of some use to you; even if all of your experience doesn't count in an administrative sense, it will all count in the air.
J.A.F.O. is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 15:48
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: london
Posts: 240
Out of interest, what type are you planning on completing your PPL training in?

That might make for an interesting discussion in itself.

Last edited by Sillert,V.I.; 2nd Aug 2015 at 16:03.
Sillert,V.I. is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 16:04
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.

I'll be in NW England for a few months and it's in that time period I'll be hoping to get the PPL. Unfortunately I won't be near any RAF flying clubs as advertised on their website, although the MAS information is very useful so thanks for that.

Sillert, interesting question, I don't really know! Having a quick scan of a few local clubs suggests most start training on Cessna 152s and then once qual'd can make use of PA28s etc. A few have Slingsby Fireflys which I know are very similar to Grob Tutors, but I'm unsure whether schools are willing to conduct PPL training in them. Basically, I don't really care; whatever the flying instructors seem to think is best!
SPQR92 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 17:08
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hillside
Posts: 12
Backup logbook

Have smartphone ? Suggest photo every page of logbook(s) as a backup.

I was in similar situation... After some Flying Scholarship & JP hours both civilian & Service flying logbooks despatched from Biggin Hill mailroom to FTS for JP hours/exercises to be validated by Chief Instructor in civvy logbook.
That was early 1987. Both logbooks lost until dropped onto my doormat in late 1999 more than 12 years later & 6 years since I'd left the RAF !

What about NPPL ?
burylad is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 18:25
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford
Posts: 2,022
Most will quote for the cheapest to keep the scary numbers down and that's probably a C152 or PA38, but they are happy to do training in a PA28 if you can pay for it.

There's a civilian variant of the Tutor, Grob G115, and at least Tayside at Dundee, and doubtless others, do train on it. Or the Firefly, as you say - with only a few AEF trips in the Tutor and 10hrs or so Firefly I'm not very qualified to compare but they are broadly similar (having been designed for the same mission of course!)
tmmorris is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 18:59
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,445
SPQR92, unfortunately the idiots at 22Gp have destroyed military accreditation for people in your situation....

...except, that is, for the NPPL, which is a national licence and free from 22Gp interference.

Your route to a Part-FCL PPL(A) should therefore be as follows:

1. Use the accreditation available to you to obtain a NPPL (SSEA).
2. Convert the NPPL to a PPL via a 'virtual LAPL' route. This means meeting both the NPPL-to-LAPL and LAPL-to-PPL conversion criteria without any phyisical need to hold a LAPL.

RAFFCA should know this - I've told them countless times that the military accreditation criteria I originally secured for the NPPL remains in place. See CAP 804 Part II Section 5 Part A Appendix 1 Pages 5-6.
BEagle is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 19:36
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Here and there
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I concur with BEagle's advice above. I've responded to a similar enquiry via e-mail today and provided exactly the same advice.

ifitaintboeing is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2015, 22:22
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Great advice gents (and ladies if applicable), thanks for taking the time to respond.

For those 'in the know', basically I'll be leaving my UAS at the end of the month and have a January IOT start date so looking to keep things ticking over until the helmet fires start once again on EFT and beyond! I've always thought a PPL would be good to have anyway, to appreciate the civilian side of flying and also so I can take mates up now and then.

You've given me some good starting points so thanks for that, and I'll go photocopy my logbook a few times first thing tomorrow!
SPQR92 is offline  

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