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CAA revalidation by experience when abroad

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CAA revalidation by experience when abroad

Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:38
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Question CAA revalidation by experience when abroad

My SEP rating expires end of this month. I'm based in Switzerland, with an EASA PPL from the UK CAA.

I have to get form 1119E signed and send it off to the CAA, right?

Do I have to submit the form before my SEP rating expires, or can it arrive after the expiry date?

Does the examiner have to sign if before the expiry date? (Of course I fulfilled all revalidation criteria before the expiry date, I'm just asking about the date of the actual signature.)

How can I find a suitable CAA examiner here in Switzerland? The head of an FTO cannot certify revalidation, right?

Thanks,

Michael
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 23:57
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I have to get form 1119E signed and send it off to the CAA, right?
Yes. Find the form here:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1119E%20FFenabled1.pdf

Do I have to submit the form before my SEP rating expires, or can it arrive after the expiry date?
You can submit the form after the event.

Does the examiner have to sign if before the expiry date? (Of course I fulfilled all revalidation criteria before the expiry date, I'm just asking about the date of the actual signature.)
Yes. He/She must sign the Rating in the Licence before it runs out.

How can I find a suitable CAA examiner here in Switzerland? The head of an FTO cannot certify revalidation, right?
Any EASA Examiner can sign the revalidation.


MJ

Ps. Be aware that there is a mistake on the form you need to correct before filling it in.

Total Flight Time in proceeding 12 months: ........Hours Total Flight Time as PIC in proceeding 12 months: .......... Hours
Should read:

Total Flight Time in the 12 months preceding the expiry of the Rating: ........ Hours. Total Flight Time as PIC in the 12 months preceding the expiry of the Rating: .......... Hours.

MJ

Last edited by Mach Jump; 19th Jan 2015 at 00:39. Reason: Punctuation.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 07:29
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Thanks for info! Now I just have to find an EASA examiner in Switzerland.

Cheers,

Michael

Update: I was told by the CAA that the EASA examiner has to email CAA's testnotification email address before signing anything. The other information given by MJ was confirmed.

Last edited by Zonkor; 19th Jan 2015 at 07:56.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 12:11
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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SEP revalidation

Not sure where you are in Switzerland but try speaking to the club at Birrfeld. I did my SEP revalidation there , although it was integrated as part of a conversion to a new aircraft type. Same basic flight test as in the UK, but CAA insisted that I sent the form and instructors credentials for the sign off ( ie: would not accept the on line submission) but that was no drama once I had the right info.
Birrfeld is a great club, with a nice fleet for hire.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 21:34
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Freefly170: Are you saying that the revalidation by experience can be done online instead of submitting a paper copy of form SRG1119E? If so, could you please give me the link? (I seem to always get lost on the CAA web page.)
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 21:36
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EASA examiner must be SEP examiner?

Ok, I found an EASA examiner. However, he isn't an SEP examiner, but for TMG rating and gliders. Is he still able to issue me the certificate of revalidation?
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Old 27th Jan 2015, 14:48
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Zonkor, no the revalidation cannot be done on line you have to submit the paperwork to CAA and will probably also have to send across the credentials of your EASA examiner , at least that's what I was requested to do (I had to send his license and medical details). It all rather seemed to defeat the point of having a "harmonized" European process.
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Old 27th Jan 2015, 15:24
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As long he has Ground Examiner status he should be able to do it. If he is not a UK examiner he would have to have undertaken formal (non) UK CAA examiner familiarisation. (Unless that rule changed recently)
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Old 27th Jan 2015, 20:43
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There are no Ground Examiners with EASA examiner privileges (yet).

ifitaint...
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Old 28th Jan 2015, 07:04
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I'm slightly confused. One examiner I know has separate Flight and Ground Examiner Authority. Another has Flight only. A third has Ground only. I have seen all three sets of documents and they're all contained in EASA licences.
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Old 28th Jan 2015, 14:25
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Note (3) on a Ground Examiner authorisation states they are not permitted to sign a Certificate of Revaldiation in a Part-FCL licence.

ifitaint...

Last edited by ifitaintboeing; 28th Jan 2015 at 14:26. Reason: iThing autocorrect
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 17:44
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Red face Careful!

In the meantime, I got the revalidation by experience signed by a German EASA examiner.

HOWEVER, after 9 days, I finally received a reply to my inquiry (with the word "URGENT" in the subject) with the CAA. The response is a bit baffling to me, to say the least:

Thank you for your email regarding the revalidation of your SEP rating by experience.

I confirm a non UK examiner is not able to revalidate an SEP rating by experience on a licence. This can only be undertaken by an appropriately authorised UK examiner or by the UK CAA. The rating must be revalidated on the certificate of revalidation before the rating has expired. Therefore if your SEP rating expires on 31st January it would need to have been revalidated on your licence by the appropriate examiner or the UK CAA on or before 31st January.

If this requirement cannot be met you will need to meet the rating renewal requirements by attending an ATO to undertake any refresher training the access you require. After which you will need to pass a proficiency check. This can be undertaken by any Part FCL examiner, they must however comply with information notice IN 2014/114

IN-2014/114: Procedures for Examiners Holding Part-FCL Certificates Issued by Countries Other than the UK | Publications | About the CAA

All information provided is based on the requirements and regulation as at the date of this email. Our telephone operators will respond to routine administration enquires, however technical enquiries should be submitted in writing. Our telephone lines are open from 8.30am and 16.30pm.
Your co-operation is appreciated.
Reading section 6.2 of that document:

Unless specifically authorised by the UK CAA, examiners holding Part-FCL examiner certificates issued by countries other than the UK are not permitted to endorse the certificate of revalidation of a UK-issued licence, Where the examiner notifies the intent to conduct a proficiency check or assessment of competence in accordance with the procedure under paragraph 4 of this Information Notice, the e-mail from the CAA confirming notification will include an authorisation permitting the examiner to endorse the revalidation page of the licence. This authorisation will be valid once only and will be for the specific renewal/revalidation of the qualification for the particular licence holder being examined. Where the non-UK examiner is not authorised to endorse the licence, the application for revalidation/renewal must be made to the CAA enclosing evidence of compliance with the renewal requirements.
What the?! This is contradicting everything I've heard so far, including from the CAA personell and licensing hotline. (They told me that just an email by the examiner to testnotification is necessary to get an authorization.)

Is my revalidation valid or not?

Thanks,

Michael
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 19:10
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What the?! This is contradicting everything I've heard so far
I don't think it is:

All Licensing Action remains under the jurisdiction of individual member staes of EASA.

In IN-2014/114 the UK CAA clearly states that any EASA Examiner can conduct a Skill Test, LPC, etc on a UK Licence Holder.

However they also clearly state that a non-UK Examiner is not entitled to take any administrative action on behalf of the CAA.

Revalidating by experience only involves administrative action, so a non-UK Examiner may not sign your Licence.

Given that it is only the UK CAA (as far as I know) that extends administrative privileges to its Examiners this is not unreasonanble.

Is my revalidation valid or not?
I would suggest not.

You would need to either find a UK Examiner to sign your paperwork or send it all off to Gatwick for the CAA to undertake the administrative action required.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 20:45
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Has anybody ever managed to fax or email in licensing document to the CAA (SRG1119B in my case)? If I express-mail them tomorrow, they'll probably arrive on the 31st still. Will that be sufficient for a successful revalidation?

-----------------

@Level Attitude:

That's all well, but please consider this:

1. I wrote an email to testnotification and fclweb to ask if the non-UK EASA examiner I found may issue the certificate of revalidation. I put the word "URGENT" in the subject. I received a reply 9 days later, one day before my license expires (see below). So much about urgent.

2. I called the CAA licensing hotline two weeks ago and was advised that any non-UK EASA examiner can issue the certificate of revalidation. Non-UK examiners just have to send an email to testnotification to get approval to do that.

3. I sent a separate written inquiry to testnotification, only to get an examiner's authorization as response. Confused about that, I sent another request for clarification, which I haven't gotten a response so far.

4. The examiner himself sent an email to testnotification, only to get the said test authorization email back.

5. To make sure the test authorization is all he needs, I called the licensing hotline again and was reassured that the email he got is ok.

6. Today I finally get a written response to my email from item 1, quoted above.

I feel that I undertook every reasonable step I could do to find out whether the revalidation may be carried out by a non-UK EASA examiner. I was told multiple times that a non-UK EASA examiner can do revalidation by experience. The first written response on my urgent request arrived after 9 days, two days before my rating expires, telling me the opposite of what my examiner and I have heard before.

I also cannot understand why it's necessary to mandate that the certificate of revalidation be signed before the rating expires. So even if all the revalidation requirements are fulfilled on expiry day, the rating expires just because the signature is given a day later. What would be a reasonable rationale for this?

Thanks,

Michael
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 22:10
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I feel that I undertook every reasonable step I could do to find out whether the revalidation may be carried out by a non-UK EASA examiner. I was told multiple times that a non-UK EASA examiner can do revalidation by experience. The first written response on my urgent request arrived after 9 days, two days before my rating expires, telling me the opposite of what my examiner and I have heard before.
Your request was urgent to you, that does not make it urgent to the recipient.
Why did you leave it until less than two weeks of Rating validity were left?

On your other points:
'testnotification' is used only for the purpose in the name, and does give out automated responses.
It is unfortunate that you believe you were verbally mis-informed by the CAA - but, probably for this very reason, they do state technical queries must be submitted in writing. Having 'heard' the answer you wanted did you ask for a reference?

Has anybody ever managed to fax or email in licensing document to the CAA (SRG1119B in my case)? If I express-mail them tomorrow, they'll probably arrive on the 31st still. Will that be sufficient for a successful revalidation?
I believe they will need SRG1119B, SRG1157 (signed by Examiner), Copies of Examiner Credentials, Certified Copy of your Ratings Page (whole Licence if currently a Part-FCL Licence, Part-FCL Application Form and fee if not) and the appropriate fee.
NB: It may be that the Test Authorisation received by your Examiner will suffice instead of copies of his credentials.

It doesn't matter when the forms arrive at the CAA, your Rating must be valid on the day they undertake the Revalidation process - which means you must hope they will do it by close of play on Friday 30th.

So even if all the revalidation requirements are fulfilled on expiry day, the rating expires just because the signature is given a day later. What would be a reasonable rationale for this?
There are many rationales for this - though not everybody would agree that all of them are reasonable.

Here is one:
All flying qualifications must be maintained by test, confirmed to the CAA by the Examiner.
As an exception to the above SEP and TMG may be maintained (Revalidated) by meeting certain experience requirements, confirmed to the CAA by an Examiner.
If out of date a Rating cannot be revalidated it can only be renewed. You are now wanting to change this, rather fundamental, aspect of Part-FCL. How would you write the regulations?
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Old 3rd Mar 2015, 13:51
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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Hello,
I'm in a same case with CPL issued by CAA.
I would like to revalidate by experience my SEP rating with French EASA FE but was tol by CAA that only UK examiner can sign my licence.

Thus I have some questions:
- Somebody knows a UK authorised examiner that live in France and would help me to signe my licence?
- I juste discover that there is a SRG for revalidation by experience only but It is not indicated in the CAA link regarding revalidation by expericene. Why?
- Some body does succeed to got is SEP rating signed by revalidation by experience with a non uk examiner?

Thanks in advance, I need to revalidate by end of april and my questions are turning from month without very clear procedure beside sending paper to the CAA and obviously paying the FEESSSSSS.

Regards,

Aurel
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Old 18th Mar 2015, 16:40
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Hello Aurel,

I have the same issue, revalidation by experience when abroad.

I have recently spoken with the CAA and I was told that a non-UK examiner is eligible to sign off a revalidation by experience in the licence if:

- my rating is printed on the first page of the licence
- if the form SRG2199 and SRG1119E are filled out and sent in
- as well as copies of my medical
- no fee


A second call with the same query about a revalidation by experience by a non-UK EASA examiner (I needed reassurance at a certain part in one of the forms) brought slightly different information concerning the requirements:

- a non-UK EASA examiner is not eligible to sign the licence without getting approval in advance
- the non-UK EASA examiner shall send an email to the Test Notification at the CAA to receive further details how to proceed
- an automatic reply will give detailed information how to proceed. Most likely the forms SRG1157 and SRG1119E will have to be filled out (whether or not to pay the 89 pounds depends on the outcome of the test notification process and whether the examiner will be eligible to sign or not)
- copies of the non-UK examiner`s medical and licence
- copies of my licence and medical
- most likely (my guess) a copy of the FIs licence

I will post an update once I proceed.
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Old 18th Mar 2015, 21:08
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The simplest way to re validate when you are in Europe is to forget the experience route and just arrange for an LPC even if you don't need to do it.

An EASA examiner gets approval to do the test and endorse your licence.

He then sends the paperwork to the CAA.

It is really that easy.

OK its a test you don't have to do but its better than letter the rating expire, get into arguments with the CAA etc.

Of course it helps to get your ducks lined up well in advance of the rating expire and not leave it to the last moment.
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Old 19th Mar 2015, 05:19
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Is the reason behind all that funny stories the EASA regulation over a bunch of nutty countries without having received a country status for the EU?
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Old 19th Mar 2015, 09:04
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If anyone needs a revalidation by experience doing please drop me a PM, I am more than happy to help if you have met the requirements.
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