Planning my first nav-ex - any and all tips welcomed!
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Planning my first nav-ex - any and all tips welcomed!
Hullo PPRuNe folks 
This is my first post on here so apologies if it's a bit boring, but tomorrow I'm due to conduct my first nav-ex with my FI.
Nothing too tough - Elstree, North London down to Southend and then back - but I'm keen to get the planning right, so any tips would be gratefully received
I think I've figured out that the narrow NOTAM brief from NATS is the right one to go for, as all the other briefings seemed to think I needed to know about the dangers of flying over Tripoli, Ukraine and so on...
Thanks
Alex
This is my first post on here so apologies if it's a bit boring, but tomorrow I'm due to conduct my first nav-ex with my FI.Nothing too tough - Elstree, North London down to Southend and then back - but I'm keen to get the planning right, so any tips would be gratefully received
I think I've figured out that the narrow NOTAM brief from NATS is the right one to go for, as all the other briefings seemed to think I needed to know about the dangers of flying over Tripoli, Ukraine and so on...
Thanks
Alex
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Line on the map seems to be going the right way. Looks good to me. Don't forget to check Notams as late as poss before you go because you can bet your bottom dollar that someone will be flying a kite no higher than 500' along your route or someone will be launching balloons, fireworks, witches on broomsticks, SAM's etc.
I notice you are flying over Stapleford ATZ. Ask your instructor about calls to them.
I take it CAS considerations are a given.
Enjoy it, your first XCs are great! Slipping the umbilical of the circuit and all that.
I notice you are flying over Stapleford ATZ. Ask your instructor about calls to them.
I take it CAS considerations are a given.
Enjoy it, your first XCs are great! Slipping the umbilical of the circuit and all that.
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Thanks, thing =o)
My greatest concerns right now revolve around what magic words to say to Stapleford to grant me passage across their ATZ, and then exactly what the instructor will say to Southend control to allow us to overfly the threshold, turn 180 degrees, and bimble away the way we came.
I certainly don't remember seeing the wording for such a request in CAP 413...
My greatest concerns right now revolve around what magic words to say to Stapleford to grant me passage across their ATZ, and then exactly what the instructor will say to Southend control to allow us to overfly the threshold, turn 180 degrees, and bimble away the way we came.
I certainly don't remember seeing the wording for such a request in CAP 413...
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alexgreyhead
don't know how to say it in british english
but I think we would say this...oh and check the aeronautical information manual...
Stapelford approach control, piper XXXX 10 miles south at 3000' request transition northbound to Mellonville.
instead of saying: we would like to fly through your airspace...use the word request.
what does bimble mean?
don't know how to say it in british english
but I think we would say this...oh and check the aeronautical information manual...
Stapelford approach control, piper XXXX 10 miles south at 3000' request transition northbound to Mellonville.
instead of saying: we would like to fly through your airspace...use the word request.
what does bimble mean?
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what does bimble mean
Incidentally talking about language, I've seen your forum name many times and always seen it as 'Glen-da-le-goon'. It's not that is it, it's 'Glendale-goon.'
and then exactly what the instructor will say to Southend control to allow us to overfly the threshold, turn 180 degrees, and bimble away the way we came.
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Ta muchly glendalegoon - will give that a pop tomorrow and see how things pan out.
For the record, I'm with thing on this; "Bimble" is something I picked up as an Air Cadet many years ago - it's a bit like "wandering" or "having a mooch about", I guess...?
For the record, I'm with thing on this; "Bimble" is something I picked up as an Air Cadet many years ago - it's a bit like "wandering" or "having a mooch about", I guess...?
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I always assumed that a 'bimble' was a moderately aimless, perhaps minimally planned, and probably local excursion. Just my impression of what a British gentleman might do on a Sunday afternoon
In contrast, 'going bush' is a serious business, mate.
And I wondered at first about this Glenda Legoon and wracked my brains to recall if I should know her.
Oh yeah..the flight plan looks good
In contrast, 'going bush' is a serious business, mate.
And I wondered at first about this Glenda Legoon and wracked my brains to recall if I should know her.
Oh yeah..the flight plan looks good
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Hi Alex,
welcome to Pprune.
I fly from Elstree, too. That route will be full of students on a VFR day, so keep your eyes peeled!
The route itself is as simple as your line shows, overhead Stapleford and then direct Southend.
The RT will probably involve calling F'bo on 132.8 once you leave the Elstree ATZ for a basic service, and they'll give you a squawk. You will probably stay outside the Stapleford ATZ by staying around 2400 ft on the London QNH, although your instructor may of course want you to call them for the practice.
Southend has an RMZ, so you need to contact them around Chelmsford and tell them your intentions and you'll typically get a new squawk.
Return is the same in reverse, and you'll
be contacting the cheerful controllers - I mean AFIS - at Elstree around the Lea valley reservoirs.
But I wouldn't worry too much. If its your first XC, you're there to learn and he/she will probably do most of the RT whilst explaining what he's doing and why. The aim of the exercise is to get you used to reading the chart and recognising your local area from above - and getting used to rejoining the circuit. Try to keep a steady heading and altitude to make life easy and 99% of the job is done
But do keep a good lookout...
it'll be great fun and will start to bring all the things (weather, law, RT, performance planning etc) together - just like the real thing!
And put away that calculator and get the whizz wheel out
Have fun
B.
seriously, do keep a good lookout, it gets busy.
welcome to Pprune.
I fly from Elstree, too. That route will be full of students on a VFR day, so keep your eyes peeled!
The route itself is as simple as your line shows, overhead Stapleford and then direct Southend.
The RT will probably involve calling F'bo on 132.8 once you leave the Elstree ATZ for a basic service, and they'll give you a squawk. You will probably stay outside the Stapleford ATZ by staying around 2400 ft on the London QNH, although your instructor may of course want you to call them for the practice.
Southend has an RMZ, so you need to contact them around Chelmsford and tell them your intentions and you'll typically get a new squawk.
Return is the same in reverse, and you'll
be contacting the cheerful controllers - I mean AFIS - at Elstree around the Lea valley reservoirs.
But I wouldn't worry too much. If its your first XC, you're there to learn and he/she will probably do most of the RT whilst explaining what he's doing and why. The aim of the exercise is to get you used to reading the chart and recognising your local area from above - and getting used to rejoining the circuit. Try to keep a steady heading and altitude to make life easy and 99% of the job is done
But do keep a good lookout...
it'll be great fun and will start to bring all the things (weather, law, RT, performance planning etc) together - just like the real thing!
And put away that calculator and get the whizz wheel out
Have fun
B.
seriously, do keep a good lookout, it gets busy.
I wondered at first about this Glenda Legoon and wracked my brains to recall if I should know her.
And put away that calculator and get the whizz wheel out
Finally a word of my own, well remembered from my instructor when I made my first such efforts: if you begin to see a vast expense of water, it might well be you are approaching the sea. Check your compass to get an idea which sea it might be then decide in which direction to turn.
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> Totally agree. Now is the time to use it.
quite. You may never get to use it again 😊
> If you begin to see a vast expense of water, it might well be you are approaching the sea. Check your compass to get an idea which sea it might be then decide in which direction to turn.
Lol. Having said that, unless you were planning to cross an ocean, you may skip the compass check and just do a 180...
To quote Leia Fee's blog :"if you see an easily recognisable landmark, you can orbit that for a while until you recognise which easily recognisable landmark it is...."
B.
quite. You may never get to use it again 😊
> If you begin to see a vast expense of water, it might well be you are approaching the sea. Check your compass to get an idea which sea it might be then decide in which direction to turn.
Lol. Having said that, unless you were planning to cross an ocean, you may skip the compass check and just do a 180...
To quote Leia Fee's blog :"if you see an easily recognisable landmark, you can orbit that for a while until you recognise which easily recognisable landmark it is...."
B.
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GLENDALEGOON....
first off there is a city near los angeles, california, USA. It is called "GLENDALE". It is near Pasadena, home of the famous tournament of roses Parade and perhaps more importantly, the JPL or JET PROPULSION LABORATORY...a place where NASA handles robotic space missions (as opposed to Manned space missions).
GLENDALE was also the place for the first or one of the first airports serving Los Angeles...I think it was called THe GRAND CENTRAL AIR TERMINAL.
SO, we have someone from GLENDALE who is a GOON...you can look up what a GOON is.
It is a handle, name etc to distinguish me from others and I think it is funny.
It is not GLENDA whatever
city...glendale
type of person...goon
that's me
over and out on the RT
first off there is a city near los angeles, california, USA. It is called "GLENDALE". It is near Pasadena, home of the famous tournament of roses Parade and perhaps more importantly, the JPL or JET PROPULSION LABORATORY...a place where NASA handles robotic space missions (as opposed to Manned space missions).
GLENDALE was also the place for the first or one of the first airports serving Los Angeles...I think it was called THe GRAND CENTRAL AIR TERMINAL.
SO, we have someone from GLENDALE who is a GOON...you can look up what a GOON is.
It is a handle, name etc to distinguish me from others and I think it is funny.
It is not GLENDA whatever
city...glendale
type of person...goon
that's me
over and out on the RT
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If you have any appreciable cross-wind, you need to find out your average drift angle, not just to set your heading on the DI, but to see where you are going.
Its a bit like driving a rally-car, most of the time you are looking through the passengers window, or your driver's door window.....
oooh, and here we prefer to use permanent marker pens on the chart, with a White-board pen for removing the marks.
Anyway, have fun, and I hope you get some decent weather soon....
Its a bit like driving a rally-car, most of the time you are looking through the passengers window, or your driver's door window.....
oooh, and here we prefer to use permanent marker pens on the chart, with a White-board pen for removing the marks.
Anyway, have fun, and I hope you get some decent weather soon....
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Alex, hopefully the following will be relevant and of help!
If you can't see your way point when you expect, consider the possibility that you've flown right over it
It's the job of airfields to hide from pilots and they are very good at it. So since Stapleford is on your route look out for it ahead and to both sides for a few minutes before you anticipate reaching it. When you reach it you'll then have a very good idea how close to your planned track you are.
Pick a few seriously easy to identify landmarks on both sides of your track a couple of miles out and highlight them on your map. This will help you know where you are relative to your plan if you get drift wrong, which is easy to do as the forecast may be wrong!
Otherwise what you've done seems sensible to me, have a good trip if the weather allows.
If you can't see your way point when you expect, consider the possibility that you've flown right over it
It's the job of airfields to hide from pilots and they are very good at it. So since Stapleford is on your route look out for it ahead and to both sides for a few minutes before you anticipate reaching it. When you reach it you'll then have a very good idea how close to your planned track you are.
Pick a few seriously easy to identify landmarks on both sides of your track a couple of miles out and highlight them on your map. This will help you know where you are relative to your plan if you get drift wrong, which is easy to do as the forecast may be wrong!
Otherwise what you've done seems sensible to me, have a good trip if the weather allows.
Alex
Don't us Chinagraph, they are too thick and rub off, try a fine spirit based marker pen!
Stapleford is A/G so the call-sign is Stapleford Radio, they do not have any ability to Control! "Transition" refers to a LEVEL an ALTITUDE and a LAYER, we as pilots do not "transition" unles its another name for Bimble! (Bimble - to aimlessly go - allez sans precision)
If you are flying with an instructor, then why are you not asking him rather than people on here? The instructor's job is to teach you how to do it.
Don't us Chinagraph, they are too thick and rub off, try a fine spirit based marker pen!
Stapelford approach control, piper XXXX 10 miles south at 3000' request transition northbound to Mellonville.
If you are flying with an instructor, then why are you not asking him rather than people on here? The instructor's job is to teach you how to do it.
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My only observation would be that your life would be easier if you bought a proper 'aviation' ruler with a scale in NM and (and less critically so) a better protractor.
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I done my first nav ex just over a month ago, quite a feeling when you actually arrive over the turning point just from following your own plan, 2nd nav ex 2 weeks ago was a bit more challenging as it was quite a bumpy day.
just waiting for the weather to play ball for my 1st solo nav ex, which was supposed to be yesterday but had to scrap the plan due to wind and cloud so ended up 5 miles from the airfield tracking vor radials instead.
just waiting for the weather to play ball for my 1st solo nav ex, which was supposed to be yesterday but had to scrap the plan due to wind and cloud so ended up 5 miles from the airfield tracking vor radials instead.
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The hardest thing that I always found on my xc's was that without fail some sneaky b*gger would come along after you depart and steal the airstrip.
Always remember on one of my solo navex's a radio call 'G-XXXX are you visual with the airfield?'; 'Negative, struggling to locate, can you assist'; 'Affirm, it is 1000 feet directly beneath you'.
Good luck, a big milestone.
Always remember on one of my solo navex's a radio call 'G-XXXX are you visual with the airfield?'; 'Negative, struggling to locate, can you assist'; 'Affirm, it is 1000 feet directly beneath you'.
Good luck, a big milestone.
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'G-XXXX are you visual with the airfield?'; 'Negative, struggling to locate, can you assist'; 'Affirm, it is 1000 feet directly beneath you'.