Flying in rough weather

[Pirke]

Normally when we say 'His wings fell off' then I think most people would take it for granted that we were talking about the aircraft. If I said 'My VOR failed' then you wouldn't assume that I have an inbuilt VOR in my leg.

But your leg has wings right? How else could you fly a leg?

Sorry, couldn't resist

[thing]

There are too many people here with too much time on their hands...not me obviously...

[worldpilot]

Disregard the many impostors here.

[Steve6443]

Was in Austria, trying to find a way back to Germany, had landed at Krems with the plan being to fly along the Danube, VFR under the weather, to Vilshofen where the weather looked to be clearing - the reports showed a line of Thunderstorms from the Alps stringing out to the North East.

Checked with Linz, they told me "no go, cloud base is less than 500 feet", but they did tell me that the tops were anticipated to be around 7000 feet so the plan was to take off and climb through broken Cumulus, unfortunately with embedded CBs in them. We then just aimed towards where it was slightly less dark, even though our routing took us perilously close to Czech airspace - was wondering what would happen if we infringed their airspace without a flight plan (no flight plan is required for flights between Austria and Germany) but at that point, all I was concerned with doing is keeping myself away from the nasty bits.

Autopilot was set to climb at 300 feet a minute, as we were climbing, or rather bouncing, upwards. The guy sitting front right was looking out for lightning flashes and guiding me towards areas where it looked brighter. Came out on top at FL85.....sweating profusely, but thankful and promising not to do that again in a hurry.

Later that day I was listening to a fellow pilot talking to Langen Information who had got himself stuck in serious IMC and was trying to find a safe place to land, you could hear the concern in his voice and thought: that could have been me. And it could have been. Told myself: Next time I'll wait for the weather to settle... maybe.....

[FANS]

Why would a ppl holder in an aircraft lacking proper kit go near bad weather deliberately?

They will only succeed in banning GA.

[OhNoCB]

I've been lucky enough to fly into a couple of CBs unintentionally and not have anything too bad happen. Both times was during a commercial medical flight in a piston twin in Europe which was equipped only with the world's worst stormscope. Both times it was very bumpy and both times lost comms until we cleared it, one time was exceptionally rough and after telling ATC we had just inadvertently flew into one and were experiencing sever turbulence they gave us "speed, altitude and heading at your discretion".

The joys of flying from A to B in solid IMC without much means of determining what type of IMC you are actually in.

[mary meagher]

There are thunderstorms and then there are thunderstorms. In England, it hardly ever hails or hurricanes in Hereford.....

In Florida summertime, the daily thunderstorms are almost benign. The heat builds up during the day, the CuNimbs are quite orderly, parading down the centre of the sandy peninsula. The airliners follow the shoreline, keeping the ride gentle and smooth for the holidaymakers. The local light aircraft do not try to surmount these battlements of cu, they simply scoot underneath, dodging the showers, maintaining VFR. I've never been as brave as the locals...but intending to drive from Tampa to St. Pete, there were tornados forecast. The sky over the bridge was so black it was green! we made a sharp right turn into Tampa airport and took refuge in the ground floor of the garage; all flights were cancelled, but like a well behaved Florida cell, the tornado simply knocked over a couple of mailboxes and burger signs, and carried on its way.

It is altogether different in Texas, and in the rest of the continental United States, when cold air moving southeast from Canada meets warm air from the Carribean, the cu nimb clouds form a terrible front any time of night or day. I had planned to fly a rented Cessna from Corpus Christi to Austin, and very proud of my newly minted IR, phoned up Flight Service to file my flight plan.
"I do not recommend that you go today" the helpful chap advised. "But I have an instrument rating...." I told him. "Well", he said, "across your planned route there is a front with embedded Cu Nimbs tops to 45,000 feet, with rain, hail, and tornados...."
I decided to fly next day.

So flying power, one stays clear of these black bottom monsters. But as you will note, reading on this thread what glider pilots get up to, we are quite tempted to tickle the black bottoms of towering cu, there one will find significant rising air. As Piper Classique tells, in the old days, thats how the intrepid glider pilots set gain of height records. We do wear parachutes, so have that option when the wings come off. Flying under a nice big one in the Soviet Union in 1989, the rain was going up, not down, and when a bolt of lightning flashed I lost my nerve and went elsewhere without delay.

[Jonzarno]

We do wear parachutes, so have that option when the wings come off.

Does having the chute allow you to take that risk? A feeling of "invulnerability" perhaps?

[India Four Two]

Does having the chute allow you to take that risk? A feeling of "invulnerability" perhaps?

No. Wearing a parachute is more like wearing a life-jacket. It's routine and it's a comfort factor when things get rough.

[Jonzarno]

I42

I know, understand and completely respect that. My post was more by way of a little private, friendly and gentle prod at something Mary said in another thread....

[Romeo Tango]

There are thunderstorms and then there are thunderstorms.

Exactly. Many thunderstorms in UK are showers with lightning. Avoid but don't panic. As I understand it most in flight breakups occur when the aircraft (ie pilot) loses control in turbulence, falls out of the bottom in a fast spiral dive, maybe beyond VNE and then levels out and pulls up too sharply. I suspect that if you end up inside the average UK storm if you keep your head and keep the right way up you will probably be ok. (I have not tried this often enough to be sure).

If one reads accounts of light aircraft record attempts in Africa the pilots do punch through lines of storms much more powerful than the average British ones, trying to avoid the worst bits. They often have a very rough ride but (usually) don't die

[effortless]

Geoffrey Wellum, First Light, best description of why we avoid weather and how sometimes there is no choice.

[worldpilot]

I've never experienced hazardous weather systems flying VFR and would for sure never experience one.

If any weather system parameter poses unacceptable threat to anticipated VFR flight envelope, it is never difficult for me to stay at home and have some good time drinking tea and eating cake.

An instructor and a pilot friend (a senior of 75 years) always says "He became an older pilot because he engages flying with cautiousness".

There is absolutely no reason flying an aircraft in airframe-shattering weather system.

WP

[DLT1939]

Been through some nasty stuff in airliners as well, that mainly happens at night when it does not show on radar -

Why would it not show up on radar at night?

[thing]

Doh, 'cos it's dark innit.

[mary meagher]

Well it may not show up on radar, but it sure shows up at night VFR! as passenger on a United flight from Austin Texas to Chicago, after the lady captain had to wait 40 minutes or so for a routing to open up enough to avoid diversion, we approached Chicago in the most awesome weather I have ever seen....starlit night sky with stars, and to either side, towering cu lighting up ON THE INSIDE with flash after flash after flash.

ATC (we were listening to ATC as well in those days on United) said they could take ten approaches, and our gal spoke up; we were number eight, and duly descended in the clear as much as possible, closer and closer to the monsters, and eventually had to get wet. A bit gusty but nothing too bumpy at all. Just torrential rain, a safe splashdown, and it all passed over before the onward flight to London. I'll never forget that sky. Beautiful.

[9 lives]

most awesome weather I have ever seen....starlit night sky with stars, and to either side, towering cu lighting up ON THE INSIDE with flash after flash after flash.

I was once night flying a C 310 south into the US from Canada (where the cold air comes from Mary). Midway into Pennsylvania, I could see a mighty thunderstorm lighting up inside on the horizon. I was headed to Raleigh, NC, and was not looking forward to dealing with this mighty storm on the way. It turned out that I did not have to, I flew at 180 knots for a bit more than an hour and a half more, and never met it, I was still seeing it ahead, as I approached my destination. I had been seeing it for more than 350 miles ahead.

I live 100 miles northwest of Rochester, NY, and occasionally see the light show on the horizon, of northern New York state getting hit by massive thunderstorms.

[India Four Two]

towering cu lighting up ON THE INSIDE with flash after flash after flash

Me too, Mary. I was a passenger on an evening flight from Saigon to Hong Kong. After coasting-out east of Saigon, we turned north and flew near the coast as far as Da Nang ( about 300 nm ). All the way, over the mountains, there was a continuous series of interlocking Cbs, that were all lighting up like giant light bulbs. I estimated the tops were well over 50,000'

[Capn Bug Smasher]

I'll never forget that sky. Beautiful.

I remember a line of thunderstorms marching parallel to us on a night hop from Langkawi to KL, like fizzing light bulbs in the dark. I remember being surprised by how constant the lightning was within the CBs. Every so often one would go up with an especially explosive pulse and reveal the whole witch's cauldron.

Man alive, I truly understood then the phrase "there's a storm brewing." A witch's cauldron it was. Turmoil.

[Romeo Tango]

I find thunderstorms easier to avoid at night, as long as they are reasonably isolated obviously.