Blackpool Airport
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Shaggysheep... How is Liverpool 'GA unfriendly'? There's a healthy mix of commercial and GA there. There's around 80 based light aircraft and numerous flying schools...
There's Manchester (not GA friendly), Liverpool (heading the same way)
One example of how it's moving the wrong way is apron security; fences everywhere with electronic locks. Never used to be like that. You either have to buy an airside pass, or get someone to let you in and out. When I first started operating from there if I forgot something from my car I just nipped back and got it - no problem, no delay. Not now - find someone to let you out, go to car, find someone to let you in again. A right pain!
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That's hardly the airports fault about the fences.
And being able to get a card to let you in and out and not have to go through a security checkpoint is pretty good actually. And quite GA friendly in my view.
Better than having to interact with some help in the community low IQ prat in a security station.
And being able to get a card to let you in and out and not have to go through a security checkpoint is pretty good actually. And quite GA friendly in my view.
Better than having to interact with some help in the community low IQ prat in a security station.
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Cleared For A Coffee
How is Liverpool 'GA unfriendly'? There's a healthy mix of commercial and GA there. There's around 80 based light aircraft and numerous flying schools...
How is Liverpool 'GA unfriendly'? There's a healthy mix of commercial and GA there. There's around 80 based light aircraft and numerous flying schools...
Last edited by Above The Clouds; 17th Oct 2014 at 19:47.
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MJ:
Please don't blame the messengers. In my experience they're mostly as much victims as we are. And, where they're not dealing with thousands of people a day, my experience is that they're more likely to be "human". Doesn't alter the rules they are employed to enforce but at least makes it a slightly less negative experience.
NS
Better than having to interact with some help in the community low IQ prat in a security station
NS
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That's hardly the airports fault about the fences.
And being able to get a card to let you in and out and not have to go through a security checkpoint is pretty good actually. And quite GA friendly in my view.
Fuelling was another problem getting worse. We'd instruct the handlers to have the aeroplane out on the apron 8:00am. The fuellers came round about 9 to 9:30 and filled up all the club aeroplanes and ours (Chippys always need fuel - they have tiny tanks). I'd turn up for a two hour slot for some aeros and a strip landing or two and find the tanks empty. By the time I'd got hold of fuel it wasn't worth flying!
It all adds up to a pretty negative and expensive experience. So.....
Only because there few places left in the Northwest to base an aircraft, I would give up flying rather than be based at Liverpool.
Liverpool ATC were super, slotting GA in. But as for the rest of it, the distinct impression was that someone in management really didn't want us doing this GA stuff.
Anyone know of an LAA Cub share going, on a farm strip in the area?
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Some are as you say and others are just a thick person with a bit of power and loves it.
These are the types that try and take your sandwiches off you because they have butter in them.
Same with the re-fuelers I can understand with pre-booked CAT flights they come first but then again they tend to be earlier than your normal flying school flights.
But refuelers that do the morning rush then decide that GA can wait until they have had their breakfast. Then they go and dip the tanks etc. And only after they have done everything else they decide to bother there backside to pump some fuel.
These are the types that try and take your sandwiches off you because they have butter in them.
Same with the re-fuelers I can understand with pre-booked CAT flights they come first but then again they tend to be earlier than your normal flying school flights.
But refuelers that do the morning rush then decide that GA can wait until they have had their breakfast. Then they go and dip the tanks etc. And only after they have done everything else they decide to bother there backside to pump some fuel.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Ghost town!
Flew out of Blackpool Today to funnily enough, pick up an aircraft from annual. The airport has special procedures in place now to accommodate aircraft leaving from maintenance, Bond and Helimed flights. The whole experience was surreal with an almost empty airport, and no one telling oneself to hold short or taxi and the like, the lack of fee was nice too but i bet one will come in the post soon...
Just wondering how big the losses were and how much full ATC was costing. Other parts of the world run small airports without ATC and pilots broadcast their intentions and sort their own separation (CTAF).
bb
bb
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Just wondering how big the losses were and how much full ATC was costing. Other parts of the world run small airports without ATC and pilots broadcast their intentions and sort their own separation (CTAF)
Blackpool was not a particularly 'small', airport. The issue is when small airports, are run as big airports. Recipe for ultimate disaster.
The infrastructure only survives in Scotland through public subsidy. Without it, a lot of small airports, being run as big ones, would not be here.
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I was born and bred in Lytham St Anne's. Living in Highbury Road as a youngster I looked out from my bedroom window across farmers fields and had a fabulous view of everything that happened at the airport.......many years ago those very farmers fields became housing estates, how ironic would it be if the airport that I used to enjoy so much would also become said housing estate.
Working now in Scotland I see Campbletown,Islay, Tiree and Barra all operating commercial flights using a AFISO as the only form of ATC. Could Blackpool do the same?
Sadly I fear that this is the beginning of the end, I only hope at the end of the day we can at least see a small portion of the airfield saved if only for GA use, but sadly I fear financially that would not be feasable !
Working now in Scotland I see Campbletown,Islay, Tiree and Barra all operating commercial flights using a AFISO as the only form of ATC. Could Blackpool do the same?
Sadly I fear that this is the beginning of the end, I only hope at the end of the day we can at least see a small portion of the airfield saved if only for GA use, but sadly I fear financially that would not be feasable !
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Working now in Scotland I see Campbletown,Islay, Tiree and Barra all operating commercial flights using a AFISO as the only form of ATC. Could Blackpool do the same?
To operate the airfield on a commercial basis, you require an airline infrastructure that has customers, and customers that are willing to pay more than £13.00 to get to Tenerife.
You also require a business infrastructure that can thrive in an economically vibrant economy. Not taxed to oblivion by an external and onerous business taxation system.
Look into this and you are getting to the bottom of the several severe issues facing the UK economy today. Oh, and I think it will get worse.before it gets better....
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Sadly it is all down to money, and ever lower ticket prices. WTF? Of course we should be taught to fly every aircraft manually and with raw data first, followed by a gradual feeding in of the automatics, but that would use up too much of the profits. And it's not the workers who are benefiting from this money saving. It is the owners or the shareholders who are fast asleep in bed, raking in the profits while you and I are mincing around doing our 4th sector in the middle of the night in bad weather, carrying MEL issues and delays. (Or flying to countries with Ebola). CAA/ICAO should be more pro-active in checking airlines for responsible engineering support, responsible training, responsible crew compliment, sensible SOP's, etc.
Meanwhile, the management think it's all fine because Johnny Newboy with their MPL can fly perfectly well using the automatics and the SOP's.
(I am not having a go at 'Johnny Newboy'. It's not their fault either).
Meanwhile, the management think it's all fine because Johnny Newboy with their MPL can fly perfectly well using the automatics and the SOP's.
(I am not having a go at 'Johnny Newboy'. It's not their fault either).
It is all linked, sadly
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Well , as we're derailing a thread, (as usual!)....Uplinker, before spouting such drivel, should perhaps look at the P&L accounts of these "greedy" operators.
Oh, yes, indeed, witha very few exceptions, they make a small fortune out of Air transport...BUT , that's only because they started with large fortunes.
Keeping the ticket-price down, in Cattle-Class, widens the customer-base dramatically. those packed-in bums-on-seats pay the overheads, the premium tickets add fer more to the bottom-line than the additional service, space and ameneties would suggest.
Air-travel has been, allowed to the great unwashed since packaged holidays to the Costas became mainstream.
Get rid of all the Proles, make air -travel exclusive once again and you will reduce the world's airliner fleet by a good 70%....that means a huge shrinkage in Aircrew jobs, support jobs and industry....like the motor-trade, they (Governments) cannot afford to kill ir stifle these industries.
Oh, yes, indeed, witha very few exceptions, they make a small fortune out of Air transport...BUT , that's only because they started with large fortunes.
Keeping the ticket-price down, in Cattle-Class, widens the customer-base dramatically. those packed-in bums-on-seats pay the overheads, the premium tickets add fer more to the bottom-line than the additional service, space and ameneties would suggest.
Air-travel has been, allowed to the great unwashed since packaged holidays to the Costas became mainstream.
Get rid of all the Proles, make air -travel exclusive once again and you will reduce the world's airliner fleet by a good 70%....that means a huge shrinkage in Aircrew jobs, support jobs and industry....like the motor-trade, they (Governments) cannot afford to kill ir stifle these industries.
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CS Far from derailing, the discussion rests on Blackpool going bust. It went bust for a reason, I think you miss the point.
The LoCo survives,by volumes. Volumes of chaff paying 13.00. The model exists in getting places like Blackpool to fund it. No landing fees, reduced everything, arguing that the shops stc will make up for the fund gap.
Eh, no it doesn't. Sooner or later, the model collapses. Blackpool is but one of many. Most Tour fiirms work in effective administration, the one in Uplinkers post being one.
Maybe Blackpool will re- emerge as a GA centre of excellence. Time will tell if a Rich white Knight steps up to the plate. Think I may hold my breath on that one.
The LoCo survives,by volumes. Volumes of chaff paying 13.00. The model exists in getting places like Blackpool to fund it. No landing fees, reduced everything, arguing that the shops stc will make up for the fund gap.
Eh, no it doesn't. Sooner or later, the model collapses. Blackpool is but one of many. Most Tour fiirms work in effective administration, the one in Uplinkers post being one.
Maybe Blackpool will re- emerge as a GA centre of excellence. Time will tell if a Rich white Knight steps up to the plate. Think I may hold my breath on that one.
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Maybe Blackpool will re- emerge as a GA centre of excellence. Time will tell if a Rich white Knight steps up to the plate. Think I may hold my breath on that one.
Time to take a breath, mate!