Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

ppl license questions

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

ppl license questions

Old 28th Sep 2014, 23:05
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ppl license questions

hi all,


I have couple of questions as follow:


I am currently doing my ppl and so far have done few hours now my questions are :


1.after going solo which my instructor told me it will be in 2-3 hours, can I simply hire and build hours or still need to hire at the price of instruction rate even when the instructor is not with me ?


2. once I pass my license and can hire airplanes, most places qoute on hourly cost , so considering a £160 per hour for a c172 , if hired for 24 hours the cost will be significant while you may be only flying for 1/2 hours. so for instance flying for leisure , i want to go to france which takes me 1 hour to get there and might be there for a day before returning so in total 2 hours of flying but 2 days . so do i need to pay £160 * 48 or *2 ?


3.when you land on other airports, do you have to give them advance notifications or do you just enter the space and request landing ?




4.if anything goes wrong with the plane while you are away from the rental base, whose resposibility is it to get it back? for instance technical failure that costs 2k , i shouldn't be responsibile , should i?


5.when doing solo , can you take a friend with you or should be on your own ?
stranger12 is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2014, 23:53
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: 55N
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This is the basic stuff that your club/school can easily answer. If you are ready to go solo quite soon, I assume you have studied and passed the examination in Air Law etc, in which case you should be able to answer your own questions. If I have got this wrong, perhaps you might want to take a close look at the quality of service being provided by your club/school.
justmaybe is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2014, 00:09
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
These are all questions to ask of your Instructor, however:
1. ......can I simply hire and build hours or still need to hire at the price of instruction rate even when the instructor is not with me
It depends on the pricing structure of the school but, because you are not Licensed, an Instructor will always have to authorise your flight (and presumably also brief and debrief you) as well as supervising you in some manner - it is therefore most common (and not unreasonable) for these flights to be charged at the 'Dual' rate, rather than the 'Solo Hire' rate.

2. .....most places qoute on hourly cost , so considering a £160 per hour for a c172 , if hired for 24 hours the cost will be significant while you may be only flying for 1/2 hours
It depends on what (agreed) terms an organisation hires you an aircraft. Most charge by the 'Flying Hour', but would likely impose a minimum daily charge if you were taking their (money earning) aircraft away for several days.

3.when you land on other airports, do you have to give them advance notifications or do you just enter the space and request landing ?
It depends on individual airports/airfields - most are listed as PPR (Prior Permission Required) and many specify that this must have been obtained by telephone (which, effectively, means before you Take Off).

4.if anything goes wrong with the plane while you are away from the rental base, whose resposibility is it to get it back? for instance technical failure that costs 2k , i shouldn't be responsibile , should I?
It depends on what terms you have agreed to hire the aircraft. An aircraft abandoned because of weather would always be the hirers responsibility; technical problem (did the hirer cause it? was it poor maintenance? or was it just bad luck?). I know one organisation that, for foreign trips, requires the renter to agree to pay up to £10,000 if required to recover the aircraft.

5.when doing solo , can you take a friend with you or should be on your own ?
As a Student you do not hold the qualifications entitling you to be PIC in an aircraft; so you are not entitled to take passengers and can only fly on your own and then only when authorised to so do by an Instructor.
Interestingly, due to this question, I looked up 'solo' in the OED and the definitions given were not very useful (it did not say 'on your own' which I expected)

Of more use is the EASA definition:
‘Solo flight time’ means flight time during which a student pilot is the sole occupant of an aircraft.

Level Attitude is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2014, 00:15
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not an expert on UK training but I will have a go.

1.after going solo which my instructor told me it will be in 2-3 hours, can
I simply hire and build hours or still need to hire at the price of instruction
rate even when the instructor is not with me ?
The charge rate will be dependant on how your school charges. But after solo, the lessons keep going, there is plently more to learn and you are going to need all your minimum hours and perhaps a few more. Hour building is not really something you do until well into a CPL



2. once I pass my license and can hire airplanes, most places qoute on
hourly cost , so considering a £160 per hour for a c172 , if hired for 24 hours
the cost will be significant while you may be only flying for 1/2 hours. so for
instance flying for leisure , i want to go to france which takes me 1 hour to
get there and might be there for a day before returning so in total 2 hours of
flying but 2 days . so do i need to pay £160 * 48 or *2 ?
You usually only pay for the time flying however there may be minimum hours that need to be flown. Usually a couple hours a day. But this can change from place to place. A school that primarily teaches during the week may be happy for you to have an airplane all weekend and only fly 2 hours, you need to check out different places. Also you may find places are more willingly to give you an underutilised aitrcraft for longer (perhaps the old tatty one)
Remember when comparing prices one hour is not equivalent to another, tacho hours, hobbs hours and start to stop hours may all be different.


3.when you land on other airports, do you have to give them advance
notifications or do you just enter the space and request landing ?
I don't know about EASA land, but not usually where I fly, unless private strips or military.



4.if anything goes wrong with the plane while you are away from the rental base,
whose resposibility is it to get it back? for instance technical failure that
costs 2k , i shouldn't be responsibile , should i?
You need to check this when you rent. Kinda like a rental car, you need to know what insurance there is and who is responsible for what


5.when doing solo , can you take a friend with you or should be on
your own ?
On you own. When you get a PPl and start taking passenger you will realise why they would be dangerous to have when training solo
500ft is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2014, 07:41
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
First of all, if you would be fit for passing PPL you would not ask a single of these questions. So, stay calm and learn. To you questions.

1. Solo only means you are sitting alone in the plane. Your FI is still responsible person and in command of you, while you command the plane. Yes, you have to have an instructor overlooking you and believe, you need'em. There is still a long road after Solo to get the license-to-learn-called-PPL.

2. Charter conditions are usually built in a way the person, club or company giving the plane does not loose money. Many times you will find conditions like rent on an hourly base with return to airfield for x£ plus a fee of y£ per day if you take the plane out. Our flight club i.e. has a rate of 250 EUR wet for C172 and 65 EUR per day with at least 2 flighthours per day billed if you take it on tour. But, it all depends on the special place you rent.

3. You should read the chapter on opening hours, airfield traffic and PPR in your text book again. Haven't you done X-country yet? If not, you are an even longer road from becoming a pilot.

4. When you are away with a rented airplane you are PIC, Pilot In Command, and close to heaven - meaning YOU are responsible. You can get away with parts of accountability by the usual insurance coverages, but if they don't pay, usually it is on you. If there is a technical issue, you are definitely not responsible for, i.e. the holder of the plane did something wrong in maintenance, you can get away, but how do you prove you not misleaned and killed the engine? Piloting means taking full personal risks, on health, life and money.

5. No, you don't. As a student pilot there is no way to take a pax - as PIC you are responsible and accountable for the life of your pax, but as a student pilot the instructor is responsible - he will be nuts to take that risk. Even if you pass exam and get a PPL you are not automatically allowed to take a pax. During the preceding 90 days to take passengers to that specific trip you have to have at least 3 T/O and Landings in that specific type you are flying - these flights have to be undertaken alone. And bet, they do ramp check you on that one!
ChickenHouse is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2014, 20:07
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: at home
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I get the feeling you haven't done any real research. This should all be covered by your instructor and in your exam prep. You mention in a previous thread that there are 8 exams, there infact 9 plus an aural RT exam. After you've done all that plus all the syllabus you take a skills test with a CAA approved examiner.

Until you have your ppl with appropriate rating in your hand you will not be able to take passengers. It is down to the specific club whether or not you get charged solo or instructor rates, for example every time I went for a solo flight during my ppl I was charged the lower rate.

You must seek PPR (this is covered in your ground school for nav) before flying to another airfield unless you're flying already and declare an emergency.

In terms of hiring an aircraft after you have gained your license, you should only be charged the hours you have flown the aircraft.

One tip I would always give, and I know it can't suit everyone's budget, but try and do as much training in short time as possible. Ie do a weeks worth of instruction and flying, take a few weeks break then carry on. I managed to complete my ppl in 3 months taking a week out of each month to continue the course. It means minimal skill fade and you won't be revising previous lessons.

Best of luck with it, but I would really speak to your instructor for him to explain all this in detail.
dagowly is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 15:56
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,027
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
You must seek PPR (this is covered in your ground school for nav) before flying to another airfield unless you're flying already and declare an emergency.
Oh? Please elucidate.
Piper.Classique is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 18:38
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: at home
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you're flying and declare an emergency, you won't require to ring up the airfield for PPR to land.
dagowly is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 18:50
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you're flying and declare an emergency, you won't require to ring up the airfield for PPR to land.
It's wonderfully dry on here sometimes...

Not all airfields require PPR either. Although someone has probably already said that.
thing is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 19:27
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 405
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Mmm, PPR. Another one of those British things that you rarely find in my part of the world.

However I did recently land at such an airport in the Australian outback. I could not think of any legitimate reason for the requirement.
On Track is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2014, 11:28
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
During the preceding 90 days to take passengers to that specific trip you have to have at least 3 T/O and Landings in that specific type you are flying - these flights have to be undertaken alone. And bet, they do ramp check you on that one!
No they don't! They have to have been carried out as PIC (or Co-Pilot) - Either Solo or carrying Pax, it doesn't matter.
It is only if that requirement is not met that no Pax can be carried
Level Attitude is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2014, 11:29
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It is a very strange oddity that airfields can be closed by declaration and opening hours, but that is the weird and unhealthy world of EUdSSR ... even stranger are things like in Germany, where you need a "Flugleiter" to avoid "Reichsjudenflucht", still.

Just another one for PPR - there are certain airfields at maybe only certain times, where you have to ring before flying there - Prior Permission Required, as PPR says - and anybody knows you find the information most probable in the AIP ... You also don't have to declare emergency to override, you could also declare it a safety landing, without the hazzle of probable investigations before T/O again.
ChickenHouse is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2014, 18:46
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,027
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
I must have been too subtle. Not hard. My point was, to hit it with a large stick, that PPR is not invariably necessary, even in the U.K.
And hardly ever, in most countries in Europe.
Piper.Classique is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.