EASA Enroute-IR minimum ceiling?
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,626
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From: UK
Writing a Training Manual for an EIR course will not take long. Most ATOs offering flying training do not offer Theoretical Training so that probably poses the biggest problem, especially as we are looking at a different exam set. Theoretical ATOs have been reluctant to offer CPL courses simply because it is not cost effective and instead concentrate on ATPL theory. Are there enough EIR candidates to motivate them into offering an EIR Theory course in the near future?
Joined: Feb 2012
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From: LOWW
@Pace
Sorry for dragging that old posting out, but how do you guys do that?
1 depart IFR in IMC
2 fly OCAS to destination
3 IFR in IMC for the approach and landing
Which section is ATC controlled?
Methinks;
Part 2 must be completely in VMC, right? (OCAS)
Hence the UK IMCR only works for controlled aerodromes w/ radar vectoring, where the part outside radar controlled departure and approach must be OCAS and VMC. How do you plan for that?
Isn't the "connecting end" of a SID an airway in CAS ?
How does on bend a SID to end in the en-route OCAS ?
I'm certainly missing something here, pls elaborate on UK IMCR?
The first you depart IFR in IMC using your IMCR you fly OCAS to destination and again fly IFR in IMC for the approach and landing
All legal with your IMCR rating
All legal with your IMCR rating
1 depart IFR in IMC
2 fly OCAS to destination
3 IFR in IMC for the approach and landing
Which section is ATC controlled?
Methinks;
Part 2 must be completely in VMC, right? (OCAS)
Hence the UK IMCR only works for controlled aerodromes w/ radar vectoring, where the part outside radar controlled departure and approach must be OCAS and VMC. How do you plan for that?
Isn't the "connecting end" of a SID an airway in CAS ?
How does on bend a SID to end in the en-route OCAS ?
I'm certainly missing something here, pls elaborate on UK IMCR?
Last edited by Reely340; 15th October 2014 at 08:28.
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Depends very much on who it is in my experience. Some are not great and some are very good. I suppose it's down to workload. Your big sky comment is quite valid, not much GA at GA levels is going to be flogging around in IMC.
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Swindon, Wiltshire
Even if you can get a worthwhile radar service in Class G, they still won't be 'controlling' either yourself or anyone else, so the answer to 'who separates me from similar traffic' is still no-one!
Joined: Feb 2012
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From: LOWW
yikes!
Even if you can get a worthwhile radar service in Class G, they still won't be 'controlling' either yourself or anyone else, so the answer to 'who separates me from similar traffic' is still no-one!
Given the ubiquitious survellance cams in UK that IS amazing.
Ok the country is as flat as a pan mostly, but I sum up:
- there might be radar coverage OCAS
- hopefully people "sign" in via radio and have their transponders on
- but generally "it's no biggie as IMC OCAS is rather unpopulated"
Personally, I find it absolutely great, that such a traffic (non)management is acutally working, w/o see-and-avoid
So you guys get to fly IMC "on your own discretion" with the support of all these fancy virtual view glass cockpit 3D rendered scenes, doing Cat-99 approaches with whatever MDA you pick, as long as you stay out of CAS.
Sounds like paradise for responsible people !
Says a lot about the quality of the attending pilots, and their self organization skills. (no smileys, I honestly mean it)
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: UK
So you guys get to fly IMC "on your own discretion" with the support of all these fancy virtual view glass cockpit 3D rendered scenes, doing Cat-99 approaches with whatever MDA you pick, as long as you stay out of CAS.
Sounds like paradise for responsible people !
Sounds like paradise for responsible people !
1) IMC doesn't necessarily mean cannot see out.
2) If IMC then must be IFR. Which means not lower than 1,000' above highest obstacle within 5nm (of Track) of aircraft unless Taking Off or Landing in accordance with normal aviation practice. In IMC it is normal aviation practice to only land following published Instrument Approaches (and hence complying with their minima).
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 346
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From: LOWW
2) If IMC then must be IFR.
Which means not lower than 1,000' above highest obstacle within 5nm (of Track) of aircraft unless Taking Off or Landing in accordance with normal aviation practice. In IMC it is normal aviation practice to only land following published Instrument Approaches (and hence complying with their minima).
So if I got that right it's exactly the opposite of the EASA E-IR:
IMCr: enroute OCAS IMC VFR, controlled IMC app/dep
E-IR: enroute CAS IMC IFR, uncontrolled VMC VFR app/dep
or did I mess up?
Last edited by Reely340; 16th October 2014 at 15:52.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,443
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From: Cambridge, England, EU
But a very special type of IFR: OCAS hence no ATC guidance, correct?
The actual rules amount to the low flying rule already mentioned and the quadrantal rule (does that still exist? who can keep track?) if you're somewhere where flight levels, rather than altitudes, apply (which they quite often don't).
So for example if you're at 3,001' and scraping along the bottom of a cloud this isn't legal VFR, so you just say to yourself "hey, d'you know what, I've just decided to fly IFR" and provided you're obeying the above two rules everything is magically OK again.
Joined: May 2011
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From: Glasgow
IMCr: enroute can be VFR or IFR but must be outside Class A, B, C airspace. Can be enroute in Class D (so via airports) but not in airways or TMAs (which tend to be Class A). When outside controlled airspace, you don't have to talk to anyone, although in most of the UK radar services are available from military, airports and area controllers (when high enough) although it generally isn't a joined up service when in quiet areas.
As Gertrude says - you can just decide you want to be IFR when outside controlled airspace, and then you are. You don't have to file a flight plan.
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: UK
IMCr: enroute OCAS IMC VFR, controlled IMC app/dep
E-IR: enroute CAS IMC IFR, uncontrolled VMC VFR app/dep
or did I mess up?
E-IR: enroute CAS IMC IFR, uncontrolled VMC VFR app/dep
or did I mess up?
"IMCr: enroute OCAS IMC VFR"
VFR is not allowed in IMC (that is the definition of IMC). The IMCr (as with an IR) allows the holder to fly IFR - IMC or VMC not relevant to using the qualification.
"controlled IMC app/dep"
Controlled/Uncontrolled is not relevant at all.
"E-IR: enroute CAS IMC IFR"
IMC not relevant. It is the ability to fly IFR that is important. I haven't checked but does E-IR specify only in controlled airspace?
"uncontrolled VMC VFR app/dep"
VFR (and hence by definition VMC) correct. But can be from/to a controlled airfield.
