Ratio of male to female?

[G_STRING]

There are are a lot more men in private GA than women, but what about the flight instructor path?

Presumably its a similar story, as most flying schools I know about dont have any lady instructors Just curious, are they really a rare breed and if so, why is that?

[RTN11]

Purely from personal experience, just thinking about who I've seen, around 20 males to every female.

[Big Pistons Forever]

There are 2 schools I occasionally help out. One has 3 women and 11 men as instructors, the other has 5 instructors, all men.

[Jude098]

Logical there being less female instructors as only 6% of all UK GA pilots are women.

[taybird]

I know 7 female flight instructors. Of those, two are still instructing regularly, two instruct occasionally and the remainder have moved on to other types of commercial aviation.

[flarepilot]

well, not that many girl pilots either...don't read anything into it...

if you are a girl and want to be an instructor...good luck, try to be good and safe

if you are a girl and want a girl instructor...good luck and I wish you the best


if you are a boy and want a girl instructor, see the above

if you ever see the movie about Pearl Harbor, "TORA TORA TORA" there is a scene in which a biplane is being used to instruct, a woman is the instructor to a boy learning to fly...she looks a bit like ethel mertz

I knew one girl instructor...she refused to land a tomahawk at the speeds listed in the POH...insisted to land about 15 knots faster (no wind)

She also wrote up a plane as having control problems...but the autopilot was engaged.

don't read anything into it...just my personal experience

[AdamFrisch]

According to Women In Aviation it's been around the 6% mark forever for the whole pilot population. I'm assuming similar numbers in the instructor ranks. But the strange thing is this: that number hasn't shifted at all over the last, say, 50-60 years. Meaning, even though we now have arguably a more equal society, this has not reflected in pilot numbers. And what's even more strange - that number is pretty much constant in all countries and on all continents.

Isn't that very strange?

[taybird]

Adam, I think it has to do with interest and aptitude. More women than men are interested in crafting or baking as a hobby, for example. And more men than women are interested in flying. Add to this the single-minded determination required for many people to attain their PPL, which is a trait more commonly expressed in male brains, and you can see how the bias can remain so consistent.
It is true that the barriers previously experienced by women are no longer such a feature, but the barriers that women make themselves are still there.
Just imo, of course. I feel that anyone who wants to fly should be encouraged.

[alnina]

Taybird

You are joking right? Please tell me you are joking? If not maybe you want to substantiate your sweeping generalisations with something remotely like factual evidence, as opposed to anecdotes and archaic stereotyping?



While I quite enjoy baking I am also highly driven and single-minded - pretty sure neither of those are Y chromosome dependent...

[dubbleyew eight]

alnina hormone replacement therapy supposedly works to keep you on a level keel.
oestrogen surges must be a bugger to contend with from the inside. I can tell you they are hell for us on the outside.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by dubbleyew eight

alnina hormone replacement therapy supposedly works to keep you on a level keel.
oestrogen surges must be a bugger to contend with from the inside. I can tell you they are hell for us on the outside.

Words fail me so a picture will have to do:

[dubbleyew eight]

big pistons you've obviously never experienced a hormonally induced tantrum directed at you.
for your sake I hope you never do.

the only problem with women in aviation is that there arent enough of them.

[alnina]

Big pistons forever

Couldnt have said it better myself.

dubble

I suppose testosterone has never made a guy ever do anything stupid, or infuriating annoying.

You might also want to get your facts straight. Here is the abstract Distribution of positive moods in women with... [J Psychosom Res. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI to a nice little paper that correlates pre-ovulation oestrogen surges to PEAK mood. So if your lady being happy pisses you off, perhaps the issue is not oestrogen but you. Additionally, this surge happens just prior to the middle of a woman's cycle. If you have ever bothered to pay any attention this is generally not PMS time, and in fact tends to be the time when a woman is most...positively inclined toward her partner, if you get my meaning. Again if that is a problem for you, well...

That aside, I suppose we can all be glad that by your logic there are a bunch of level-headed, presumably testosterone-free pilots scooting us all around the skies and not a bunch of hormone-addled women looking to ditch planes into the nearest mountain because they're having a mid-month oestrogen surge. Perhaps if you simply put them all on an appropriate hormonal birth control or monitored their cycles and banned them flying from what, day 11 - 14 that would be good. I'm sure their hubbies would be happy about it anyway.

As for why women aren't becoming pilots, well, here's an idea, ask some women.

big pistons you've obviously never experienced a hormonally induced tantrum directed at yo

Typical approach - act like an ass and when she gets made claim her reaction is hormonal and therefore irrational. Having witnessed plenty of testosterone-fuelled male stupidity one could pretty easily flip your hormone argument on its head dubble...

[taybird]

Alnina

Not joking. There is plenty of research in relation to the differences between male and female brains. There is also research showing that these are trends only, and that a female person can have a male type brain and vice versa.

Show me where I have made generalisations that are inaccurate.

I have pointed out that some pursuits tend to be more female or male dominated. That is TRUE. The viewing audience for QVC's Crafts and Hobbies show is predominantly female. And the population of pilots is predominantly make. There's nothing stopping men from crafting and women from flying but the fact remains that there is gender bias. I have also pointed out that there are other traits that TEND to be more strongly expressed in one gender than another. Ie the tendency for male brains to be better at single task focus as opposed to female running multiple streams at the same time. These are tendencies not hard rules!!! And there is plenty of research out there to back this up.

You might want to try being a little less judgemental and reading what is written rather than what you expect to be written.

[alnina]

Taybird:

The viewing audience for QVC's Crafts and Hobbies show is predominantly female.

- THAT makes your generalisation true? They are all probably over 50, if not 70!! I dont believe you could extrapolate that to my age bracket, which is where your female career women are at. More to the point, what does baking have to do with why a person may or may not choose to become a pilot? In my home its not a hobby, its a bloody necessity. Sadly I suspect like most young men over early career age, most young women display more interest in drinking and facebook than cooking and quilting.

You are right in what you say about male and female brains being wired differently, I have no issue with that, there is good science to support it. My point was that you stated:

Add to this the single-minded determination required for many people to attain their PPL, which is a trait more commonly expressed in male brains

- I have never come across a study that shows men's brains are wired to be more determined or single-minded that women's. Unless you count the ability to sit at a computer console for days on end in order to win some gang/drug/car theft/war game, in which case given the majority of gamers are men, maybe there is evidence to support your statement...

In the end, while I am sure there are some great reasons more women don't pursue flying, being busy in the kitchen or knitting a jumper are highly unlikely to be major contributing factors. Nor is a woman's ability to single-mindedly pursue something to its conclusion. That men's brains tend to be more wired to logical thinking may have been a more valid assessment of why they make good pilots or why more men get through the process of becoming a pilot - but I don't know if the latter is even the case or if its just less women are interested in the first place?

As for dubble - was I just the recipient of a testosterone-fuelled little dummy spit? Whether I enjoy my day or not is not relevant to the topic. Your comment was factually incorrect, sexist and had no relevance to the topic of the thread and I simply pointed that out. Your response was childish, but that's your choice. My day has been great so far though, thanks for asking, I assume from your comments that yours hasn't.

[flarepilot]

maybe its because more men would like to be lindbergh

and more women like earhart

sort of.


really, how many famous or outstanding female pilots are there?

and I can name a dozen male pilots that are outstanding.


role models?


I also know that some airlines have gone out of the way to recruit and train and re train female pilots.

[alnina]

You may be right - early pioneers of flying were male, as was the norm in most vocations really. I was fascinated by Earhart as a kid, and one of my daughters is also, but never made either of us want to be pilots.

If you want more female pilots you need to get in a secondary school level and maybe earlier and capture their interest. If not there then at uni. The sciences, especially physical and mathematical are being increasingly promoted to young girls - perhaps in the next 10-15 years the gender disparity will lessen as they realise careers require aptitude in these areas are accessible to them.

I'm not sure if it is what you meant, but I think recruitment should be based on merit alone, not positive discimination. Plenty of women are interested in working as cabin crew - maybe this question posed to women working in other roles in the industry would give some reasonable insight into why they don't go for piloting? I am sure some feel it would be too difficult, or not suited to their skill set, but I would guarantee there are reasons other than those that stop women pursuing the career. Trying to figure exactly why it doesn't interest me...

[Flyingmac]

Throughout history there have been many famous female test pilots, Formula 1 drivers, Classical composers, surgeons, inventors, mountaineers, Polar explorers, divers, painters, aircraft designers, bridge builders et cetera.
My wife/co-pilot just said so. I know better than to argue.

[m.Berger]

Dismissing Alnina's unbecomingly hysterical ranting, flying does pretty well as an adventure sport for women.
Fewer than 6% of racing drivers or racing motorcyclists are women, for example.
The assertion that 6% is the same ratio now as then does not disprove the more equal society theory, in fact it reinforces the point that the women who wanted to fly managed to do so, (Earhart, Scott, Johnson, Barnes etc.)
There is another number to consider. Only one in three thousand people (UK) trains to be a pilot so a very small percentage of men fly anyway.
Women who want to fly will. That works out at about 6% of people who want to fly. It always did so it is only a problem to those who would like to invent one.

[PURPLE PITOT]

The sky is blue, not pink. It's called a cockpit, not a box office.

Simples!