A stupid thing about cessnas
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A stupid thing about cessnas
I dont want to offend anyone but this just occured to me:
On planes like cessnas and pipers there are control columns which have 2 handles. Why? Shouldn't pilots keep one hand handy for the throttle? So whats the other handle about? Its not like its an airliner thats really heavy to handle is it? What about a good stick? This brings me onto my other point: as the throttle is in the middle it means someone has to use the hand they dont normally use for the control column, using their good hand for the throttle. Isnt this annoying?
What do you think?
On planes like cessnas and pipers there are control columns which have 2 handles. Why? Shouldn't pilots keep one hand handy for the throttle? So whats the other handle about? Its not like its an airliner thats really heavy to handle is it? What about a good stick? This brings me onto my other point: as the throttle is in the middle it means someone has to use the hand they dont normally use for the control column, using their good hand for the throttle. Isnt this annoying?
What do you think?
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Tiger Moth
There was a thread recently about left / right hands, throttle and control column etc.
More knowleadgeable people than me will hopefully comment, but I think the two handed yoke came into being as heavier aircraft with manual controls needed more strength than could be applied through a control column with one hand. Many pilots of the pre and WWII era speak about how physically exhausting it could be wrestling a heavy through turbulence.
So what's it got to do with a Cessna, you ask? Well in the 1950s American GA manufacturers were trying to make the a/c as unintimidating, car like and friendly as possible (they described "Land- o matic" undercarriages). Clearly a yoke helped with that, also makes it easier to shuffle in sideways through a door onto a bench seat.
Good, that's the daily bull****ting itch scratched
There was a thread recently about left / right hands, throttle and control column etc.
More knowleadgeable people than me will hopefully comment, but I think the two handed yoke came into being as heavier aircraft with manual controls needed more strength than could be applied through a control column with one hand. Many pilots of the pre and WWII era speak about how physically exhausting it could be wrestling a heavy through turbulence.
So what's it got to do with a Cessna, you ask? Well in the 1950s American GA manufacturers were trying to make the a/c as unintimidating, car like and friendly as possible (they described "Land- o matic" undercarriages). Clearly a yoke helped with that, also makes it easier to shuffle in sideways through a door onto a bench seat.
Good, that's the daily bull****ting itch scratched
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Stick or Whell - what is the difference. In my view it is simply a matter of choice BUT consider from where the wheel emanates and you might consider the alternative of a single "spoke" would be inapropriate. I clock up several hundred hours per annum in a Cessna and love it.
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Tiger Moth,
I've flown aircraft with both a control column or a stick; it really hardly makes any difference. Using your left hand on the yoke is not a problem either; in fact, as soon as you start going near controlloed airspace and getting squawks etc, it helps to have your right hand relatively free to write things down. Can't do that in a helicopter, unfortunately
I've flown aircraft with both a control column or a stick; it really hardly makes any difference. Using your left hand on the yoke is not a problem either; in fact, as soon as you start going near controlloed airspace and getting squawks etc, it helps to have your right hand relatively free to write things down. Can't do that in a helicopter, unfortunately
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Thanks for your replies.
Ivchenko: exactly! yokes were designed for heavy planes not little light aircraft. They have no business in small planes. Planes shouldnt be made "car-like" with wheels like cessnas, its good to learn to fly something well and not have something made really tame and car like.
By the way, does anyone know if the aerobatic cessna, the c150 aerobat has a stick or a yoke? Does anyone else think aerobatics with a yoke just seems odd?
Ivchenko: exactly! yokes were designed for heavy planes not little light aircraft. They have no business in small planes. Planes shouldnt be made "car-like" with wheels like cessnas, its good to learn to fly something well and not have something made really tame and car like.
By the way, does anyone know if the aerobatic cessna, the c150 aerobat has a stick or a yoke? Does anyone else think aerobatics with a yoke just seems odd?
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Ivchenko:
If any pilot told you that they would be exhausted from wrestling a heavy through turbulence they were either.
( A ) Bull****..ing you
( B ) Lying about having flown one
( C ) or both of the above.
These stories seem to just go on and on and on.................
When in fact they are just pure Grade A Bullsh.t
Cat Driver:
.................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
If any pilot told you that they would be exhausted from wrestling a heavy through turbulence they were either.
( A ) Bull****..ing you
( B ) Lying about having flown one
( C ) or both of the above.
These stories seem to just go on and on and on.................
When in fact they are just pure Grade A Bullsh.t
Cat Driver:
.................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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Hiya Cat Driver
Nice to hear from you again - although you've left my childhood dreams about square jawed heroes in tatters, and I feel bitter about all those hours doing pull ups in anticipation of moving up to a Cessna 172. All I ever wanted to do was wrestle with the controls, and now you say I can go back to being a limp wristed fairy
Go on then - give us a better story about why yokes replaced the columns of joy
Nice to hear from you again - although you've left my childhood dreams about square jawed heroes in tatters, and I feel bitter about all those hours doing pull ups in anticipation of moving up to a Cessna 172. All I ever wanted to do was wrestle with the controls, and now you say I can go back to being a limp wristed fairy
Go on then - give us a better story about why yokes replaced the columns of joy
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Hi Ivchenko:
Damned if I know why they use the wheel to replace the stick.
I find a stick between my legs to be far easier to use, hell it is instinct.
As to difficulty in handling based on force required, all aircraft are designed so the stick or wheel force required to deflect the controls must fall within the norm of pilot strength.
We fly very, very long ferry flights in probably the heaviest control force airplane ever certified.
In turbulence you learn to anticipate the airplanes movements and use only the control force imput necessary to maintain the desired attitude.
A lot of pilots do over control and in very turbulent air and it is possible to become fatigued, however it is self induced.
Once you understand how to fly the thing it is a lot easier.
Very strong X / winds will on occasion compell me to use both hands on the wheel for a few moments to hold full aeliron, but it is very seldom.
Both hands on the stick is another matter.
Cat Driver:
.........
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Damned if I know why they use the wheel to replace the stick.
I find a stick between my legs to be far easier to use, hell it is instinct.
As to difficulty in handling based on force required, all aircraft are designed so the stick or wheel force required to deflect the controls must fall within the norm of pilot strength.
We fly very, very long ferry flights in probably the heaviest control force airplane ever certified.
In turbulence you learn to anticipate the airplanes movements and use only the control force imput necessary to maintain the desired attitude.
A lot of pilots do over control and in very turbulent air and it is possible to become fatigued, however it is self induced.
Once you understand how to fly the thing it is a lot easier.
Very strong X / winds will on occasion compell me to use both hands on the wheel for a few moments to hold full aeliron, but it is very seldom.
Both hands on the stick is another matter.
Cat Driver:
.........
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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Aerobatic 150
Yep, the Aerobat has a yoke. Not quite as bad as it seems, but sometimes not as nice as a stick. You actually need both handles sometimes, like when you're learning aileron rolls and the like, let go of the throttle and use both hands on the yoke, it goes right round to about thirty degrees past the vertical.
-D
-D
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Ivchenko,
If you REALLYwant to wrestle with controls, try (simulated) hydraulic failure on a B206 helicopter. I complained violently when the instructor made me fly it with no hydraulics for about 20 minutes, and then come to a hover!!!
He said if it was for real, it might take me that long to find somewhere to land safely, so I had to do it, and I was bigger than the Japanese student he'd had the week before, so to quit complaining. I went for a massage the next day to get rid of the aches in my shoulders; I kid you not.
So there's your answer.
If you REALLYwant to wrestle with controls, try (simulated) hydraulic failure on a B206 helicopter. I complained violently when the instructor made me fly it with no hydraulics for about 20 minutes, and then come to a hover!!!
He said if it was for real, it might take me that long to find somewhere to land safely, so I had to do it, and I was bigger than the Japanese student he'd had the week before, so to quit complaining. I went for a massage the next day to get rid of the aches in my shoulders; I kid you not.So there's your answer.
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speaking as a cack-handed person it has no effect on me, I actually feel quite comfortable using a yoke although it does restrict legroom space in an already cramped cockpit
Moderator
.. then again, those of us who learnt to fly on side by side seating Victa AirTourers ... are totally confused .. as the shared stick is in the middle and the throttle on the outside..
.. and some of the parts are off the dear old Victa lawnmower ..
.. and some of the parts are off the dear old Victa lawnmower ..
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Tiger
Do you know the really stupid thing about those Cessna's?
Over 50,000 people these idiotic aircraft with yokes!
Now get real and consider what the average pilot wants and it ain't an open cockpit, "sporty" handling and a motor that vents oil like there's no tomorrow.
Cessna know their audience pretty well and thats why they fit yokes.
As to which hand to use, you'll find that it isnt really a problem. The bigger issue is trying to modify a LHS scan when flying from the RHS.
Do you know the really stupid thing about those Cessna's?
Over 50,000 people these idiotic aircraft with yokes!
Now get real and consider what the average pilot wants and it ain't an open cockpit, "sporty" handling and a motor that vents oil like there's no tomorrow.
Cessna know their audience pretty well and thats why they fit yokes.
As to which hand to use, you'll find that it isnt really a problem. The bigger issue is trying to modify a LHS scan when flying from the RHS.
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John-T:
There are also those of us that have used the side controller in fly by wire that has no aerodynamic load feedback. Four knots feels just the same as four hundred.
Truth is you soon get used to any of the different control methods.
Even the helicopter controls can be easily learned.
What I find difficult is making a fu...ng excavator do what I want it to do.
Now there is a complex mother to get the hang of the controlls.
Cat Driver:
................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
There are also those of us that have used the side controller in fly by wire that has no aerodynamic load feedback. Four knots feels just the same as four hundred.
Truth is you soon get used to any of the different control methods.
Even the helicopter controls can be easily learned.
What I find difficult is making a fu...ng excavator do what I want it to do.
Now there is a complex mother to get the hang of the controlls.
Cat Driver:
................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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Wrestling with controls in a B 206, pah! You should try hydraulics out in a Scout. Never heard of anyone hovering one of those without the 800psi of servo assist.
No doubt about it though, helicopter pilots need to be left handed and fixed wing right handed. One of my old time instructors was ambi - whatever it is - lucky b****r.
No doubt about it though, helicopter pilots need to be left handed and fixed wing right handed. One of my old time instructors was ambi - whatever it is - lucky b****r.
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One theory is; a yoke gives a more natural movment in the roll axis and a stick gives a more natural movment in the pitch axis. Solution - a yoke on top of a stick - used in several airliners.
I was taught by one instructor to use both hands on the yoke during the flare, it gives a lot of added control thus helps produce smoother touchdowns, so long as you are confident you can find the throttle quickly if you need to go around. This is a very handy technique with planes with a tendency to float, like the PA28 Warrior, wich can also be heavy in the flare.
I was taught by one instructor to use both hands on the yoke during the flare, it gives a lot of added control thus helps produce smoother touchdowns, so long as you are confident you can find the throttle quickly if you need to go around. This is a very handy technique with planes with a tendency to float, like the PA28 Warrior, wich can also be heavy in the flare.
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An instructor I know who's flown anything and everything in every country in the world for hundreds of years (OK, I know I'm prone to exaggeration, but you know what I mean ) told me you need to be ambidextrous in the long run. He told me to practise writing with my left hand, as the day would come when I'd be given too much info in a heli to be able to remember it all. And he said if I wanted to be a heli instructor, I'd have to learn to use the cyclic with my left hand, so I could change frequencies with my right. He said all it took was practice, and he meant it. So there's a challenge!
) told me you need to be ambidextrous in the long run. He told me to practise writing with my left hand, as the day would come when I'd be given too much info in a heli to be able to remember it all. And he said if I wanted to be a heli instructor, I'd have to learn to use the cyclic with my left hand, so I could change frequencies with my right. He said all it took was practice, and he meant it. So there's a challenge!
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I've got a nice little debate going here!
I think it's true that you do get used to different configurations but I am still against yokes. Awyrennwr: if you had a stick you wouldnt have the debateof should I use both hands?
Isnt it easier to use a stick where you hold it in the centre than a wheel where you hold it offset to one side?
Final 3 greens: do you think the cessna is popular because people really like it? Some do but dont you think it has a lot to do with cost and easiness to fly and its use as a trainer?
It would be interesting to see the results of a vote for yokes or sticks. I think sticks would win. Is there anyway to do a poll on this site or am I getting it confused with something else? Anyway, if you know how to then tell me how or set up the poll yourself and we'll see how well yokes come out.
I realise that if its a stick or a yoke doesnt actually matter that much but I think a stick is a much better option in a small plane: whats the point of 2 handles if you're not even going to use them? By the way: yoke on an aerobat (!)
Now lets get that poll going
I think it's true that you do get used to different configurations but I am still against yokes. Awyrennwr: if you had a stick you wouldnt have the debateof should I use both hands?
Isnt it easier to use a stick where you hold it in the centre than a wheel where you hold it offset to one side?
Final 3 greens: do you think the cessna is popular because people really like it? Some do but dont you think it has a lot to do with cost and easiness to fly and its use as a trainer?
It would be interesting to see the results of a vote for yokes or sticks. I think sticks would win. Is there anyway to do a poll on this site or am I getting it confused with something else? Anyway, if you know how to then tell me how or set up the poll yourself and we'll see how well yokes come out.
I realise that if its a stick or a yoke doesnt actually matter that much but I think a stick is a much better option in a small plane: whats the point of 2 handles if you're not even going to use them? By the way: yoke on an aerobat (!)
Now lets get that poll going
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Just to add my 2p worth to the (fallacious) argument which suggests that right handed yoke users are going to fall from the skies each time they take their hand off the yoke to reach for the throttle.
You don't see european car drivers disappearing into a ditch each time they change gear do you.
Think about it: most people have some use in their non-dominant hand.
I suppose one way to check would be to try wiping your *rse with your non dominant hand.
If you make a real pigs ear of it then don't fly.
Safe flying
You don't see european car drivers disappearing into a ditch each time they change gear do you.
Think about it: most people have some use in their non-dominant hand.
I suppose one way to check would be to try wiping your *rse with your non dominant hand.
If you make a real pigs ear of it then don't fly.
Safe flying
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I logged 5 hours of dual in an Aztec, and I can tell you that if you let it get even slightly out of trim, the controls are very heavy, and you do need two hands! Of course, the answer is to not let it get out of trim which I managed after a while - but my biceps got a decent workout for the first hour or two!!!
As for which hand to use, I've been amused a couple of times by a PPRuNer friend (who will remain anonymous!) who I've taken flying in a Super Cub a couple of times. The Cub has a stick, and the throttle is on the left hand side (whether flying from front or back seat). My friend has a habit of holding the stick in the left hand, and stretching the right hand over to use the throttle! It looks very uncomfortable!!! Personally, I never had any problem switching from using my right hand for the throttle in the PA28, to using my left hand in the PA18. And I've also flown from the right seat a couple of times, and not had any problems there, either. But everyone's different.
FFF
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which I managed after a while - but my biceps got a decent workout for the first hour or two!!!As for which hand to use, I've been amused a couple of times by a PPRuNer friend (who will remain anonymous!) who I've taken flying in a Super Cub a couple of times. The Cub has a stick, and the throttle is on the left hand side (whether flying from front or back seat). My friend has a habit of holding the stick in the left hand, and stretching the right hand over to use the throttle! It looks very uncomfortable!!! Personally, I never had any problem switching from using my right hand for the throttle in the PA28, to using my left hand in the PA18. And I've also flown from the right seat a couple of times, and not had any problems there, either. But everyone's different.
FFF
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