A stupid thing about cessnas
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I've just started flying in an aircraft that has a stick, after 100hrs in a Cessna. It just seems so more natural to put the stick where you want the nose of the aircraft to be pointing.
I'll vote for sticks.
I'll vote for sticks.
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Although this is a pointless debate I'm bored so here's my tuppence worth:
"Isnt it easier to use a stick where you hold it in the centre than a wheel where you hold it offset to one side?"
Don't know about you mate, but both my arms are offset - one on the left, one on the right. You do use your ARMS to steer, don't you? Maybe holding the stick reminds you of your other favourite past-time
"do you think the cessna is popular because people really like it? Some do but dont you think it has a lot to do with cost and easiness to fly and its use as a trainer?"
So aircraft should be expensive, unreliable and impossible to fly? Isn't it enough that they're expensive and unreliable?
It would be interesting to see the results of a vote for yokes or sticks
Maybe in your world.
Tiger Moth - how's the flying lessons coming along?
"Isnt it easier to use a stick where you hold it in the centre than a wheel where you hold it offset to one side?"
Don't know about you mate, but both my arms are offset - one on the left, one on the right. You do use your ARMS to steer, don't you? Maybe holding the stick reminds you of your other favourite past-time
"do you think the cessna is popular because people really like it? Some do but dont you think it has a lot to do with cost and easiness to fly and its use as a trainer?"
So aircraft should be expensive, unreliable and impossible to fly? Isn't it enough that they're expensive and unreliable?
It would be interesting to see the results of a vote for yokes or sticks
Maybe in your world.
Tiger Moth - how's the flying lessons coming along?
The Original Whirly
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I also consider this a pointless debate. I can think of reasons for preferring fixed wing or rotary, high or low wing, single or twin engine, and a few other things. But yoke or stick? For gawd's sake!!!!! 
I've flown with both, and what I remember about those different aircraft are the responsiveness of the aircraft, where I went, what my landings were like. The damn thing could have had a yoke or a stick or a three pronged fork carved with dragons' heads for all I'd care, so long as it was a nice aircraft to fly on a nice day to a nice place.
I think this thread must get a prize for the most pointless question ever asked on PPRuNe. If you start a poll I for one will boycott it. And Tiger, when you've actually had some experience on both types of aircraft, and I mean some experience, not the odd lesson or two and a few thoughts, you'll see what I mean.
I've flown with both, and what I remember about those different aircraft are the responsiveness of the aircraft, where I went, what my landings were like. The damn thing could have had a yoke or a stick or a three pronged fork carved with dragons' heads for all I'd care, so long as it was a nice aircraft to fly on a nice day to a nice place. I think this thread must get a prize for the most pointless question ever asked on PPRuNe. If you start a poll I for one will boycott it. And Tiger, when you've actually had some experience on both types of aircraft, and I mean some experience, not the odd lesson or two and a few thoughts, you'll see what I mean.
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Tiger
Yes, some people (quite a lot actually) do like Cessna's.
Also, if you think the 150 is easy to fly, do this WITH AN INSTRUCTOR.
Climb to a safe altitude, do you HASELLs, set 1500rpm and 40 degrees of flap, pitch up 10 degrees and then come back and tell us all what happened and how easy the 150 was to fly.
Yes, some people (quite a lot actually) do like Cessna's.
Also, if you think the 150 is easy to fly, do this WITH AN INSTRUCTOR.
Climb to a safe altitude, do you HASELLs, set 1500rpm and 40 degrees of flap, pitch up 10 degrees and then come back and tell us all what happened and how easy the 150 was to fly.
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Sorry Tiger Moth, this is a pointless question. I have flown, for a few minutes, a yoke equipped aircraft and a sidestick microlite glider for about half an hour. In the Ogar, when solo, I sometimes use the Stbd stick whilst checking the map. It really makes no difference. If it stuck out from the wall sideways I`m sure we would still adapt in seconds.
Mike W
Mike W
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Whirly,
What an excellent idea! I think I see a mod to my Europa coming... hope the rest of the group agree to it!
FFF
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The damn thing could have had ... a three pronged fork carved with dragons' heads for all I'd care
FFF
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The Original Whirly
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Hmm, should I set up a business do you think?
I mean why stop at forked yokes with dragons heads? We could have throttles carved with mermaids sticking out from the roof, with the interior painted to match, naturally. And flames or waves coming out from the compass and other instruments, depending on whether you prefer a firey or watery theme. Interesting things could happen to the altimeter as you climb - pictures of snowy mountains perhaps. If you land at an airfield below sea level...well, let's see...pictures of Atlantis comes to mind. Would all this be distracting, you ask. But a C150 or 152 is so easy to fly isn't it? Don't want you all to get bored now. This would keep up the interest when you're trying to land your boring Cessna in a 20kt crosswind at an airfield at 2000ft with a sheer drop at both ends.
As for helicopters...
But I'll leave that to someone else who's having a boring day at work.
I mean why stop at forked yokes with dragons heads? We could have throttles carved with mermaids sticking out from the roof, with the interior painted to match, naturally. And flames or waves coming out from the compass and other instruments, depending on whether you prefer a firey or watery theme. Interesting things could happen to the altimeter as you climb - pictures of snowy mountains perhaps. If you land at an airfield below sea level...well, let's see...pictures of Atlantis comes to mind. Would all this be distracting, you ask. But a C150 or 152 is so easy to fly isn't it? Don't want you all to get bored now. This would keep up the interest when you're trying to land your boring Cessna in a 20kt crosswind at an airfield at 2000ft with a sheer drop at both ends.
As for helicopters...
But I'll leave that to someone else who's having a boring day at work.
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I admit this thread had a provocative title and was perhaps a little ill conceived: sorry
I admit that yokes arent that bad
I still prefer sticks and think they are a slightly better form of control
I concede that it doesnt matter that much
I dont think its such a stupid question to debate yokes/sticks and dont know why you are all so annoyed by it: if you think its such a stupid question then just ignore the thread
Obviously any plane is hard to fly if you do something crazy with it or fly it in particularly hard conditions. I thought it was an accepted fact that cessnas are relatively easy to fly which is why it is such a prolific trainer. I dont mind cessnas and this thread wasnt meant to be about them.
I admit that yokes arent that bad
I still prefer sticks and think they are a slightly better form of control
I concede that it doesnt matter that much
I dont think its such a stupid question to debate yokes/sticks and dont know why you are all so annoyed by it: if you think its such a stupid question then just ignore the thread
Obviously any plane is hard to fly if you do something crazy with it or fly it in particularly hard conditions. I thought it was an accepted fact that cessnas are relatively easy to fly which is why it is such a prolific trainer. I dont mind cessnas and this thread wasnt meant to be about them.
The Original Whirly
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Tiger Moth,
I shouldn't tease you; I was trying to brighten up a boring day at work for myself, and I'm sorry if it got to you.
I wasn't annoyed with your thread at first, but...
The title was DEFINITELY provocative; why not "Sticks or Yokes; which do you prefer?" or something similar? Why imply that Cessnas are stupid?
It was a valid subject for discussion, but you seemed to go way over the top, wanting a poll and that kind of thing. It's understandable, when it looks like you've started a subject that people want to discuss. But I think that's why some of us reacted the way we did - perhaps over-reacted, but hey, that's typical PPRuNe!
It's fine for you to prefer sticks. And fine for other people to prefer yokes (or dragon carved forks ), or have no preference at all.
It is indeed an accepted fact that Cessnas are relatively easy to fly. But that doesn't make them bad, and you seem to imply that it does.
The fact that you have little experience of actual flying but a lot of strong opinions about it sometimes annoys some people. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. You're also very young, and sometimes that's very obvious to those of us who aren't any more. But there's no crime in that, and one thing that is certain is that you will grow older.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly...
Posts can be easily misunderstood. Mine are, frequently. I used to get almost reduced to tears by some of the apparently unfair responses I got. Now I'm tougher. But I always warn people who I introduce to PPRuNe to put on their mental armour before they come in here. I'm met loads of PPRuNers, and most of them are really nice people. But some aren't, some have bad days, some post without thinking, and so on. And some of us tease or make fun of people, without it meaning to be malicious at all, and perhaps it comes out wrong.
Tiger Moth, you have as much right to be here as anyone else. Keep posting, keep listening, and keep flying!
(And I now just hope to hell the above comes out as I meant it to
)
I shouldn't tease you; I was trying to brighten up a boring day at work for myself, and I'm sorry if it got to you.
I wasn't annoyed with your thread at first, but...
The title was DEFINITELY provocative; why not "Sticks or Yokes; which do you prefer?" or something similar? Why imply that Cessnas are stupid?
It was a valid subject for discussion, but you seemed to go way over the top, wanting a poll and that kind of thing. It's understandable, when it looks like you've started a subject that people want to discuss. But I think that's why some of us reacted the way we did - perhaps over-reacted, but hey, that's typical PPRuNe!
It's fine for you to prefer sticks. And fine for other people to prefer yokes (or dragon carved forks
), or have no preference at all.It is indeed an accepted fact that Cessnas are relatively easy to fly. But that doesn't make them bad, and you seem to imply that it does.
The fact that you have little experience of actual flying but a lot of strong opinions about it sometimes annoys some people. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. You're also very young, and sometimes that's very obvious to those of us who aren't any more. But there's no crime in that, and one thing that is certain is that you will grow older.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly...
Posts can be easily misunderstood. Mine are, frequently. I used to get almost reduced to tears by some of the apparently unfair responses I got. Now I'm tougher. But I always warn people who I introduce to PPRuNe to put on their mental armour before they come in here. I'm met loads of PPRuNers, and most of them are really nice people. But some aren't, some have bad days, some post without thinking, and so on. And some of us tease or make fun of people, without it meaning to be malicious at all, and perhaps it comes out wrong.
Tiger Moth, you have as much right to be here as anyone else. Keep posting, keep listening, and keep flying!
(And I now just hope to hell the above comes out as I meant it to
)
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Evo 7: very good point. The answer is that I am basically wrong, the thread was intended as a debate about yokes/sticks and I just decided to say a stupid thing about cessnas, it could just as easily have been a stupid thing about pipers. Sorry
Whirly: I would hardly say I was reduced to tears by the responses, just a bit surprised that some of you got so annoyed. But actually, I realise I brought it on myself with the very provocative title which is why people are annoyed, not necessarily because of what the threads about.
Having said that, Im sure that even if the thread was called: " a level headed debate on yokes vs sticks" some people would have still got annoyed. For some reason.
This thread was not intended as an attack on cessnas.
Whirly: I would hardly say I was reduced to tears by the responses, just a bit surprised that some of you got so annoyed. But actually, I realise I brought it on myself with the very provocative title which is why people are annoyed, not necessarily because of what the threads about.
Having said that, Im sure that even if the thread was called: " a level headed debate on yokes vs sticks" some people would have still got annoyed. For some reason.
This thread was not intended as an attack on cessnas.
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Tiger
What I described is not a crzy thing - it has been done many times under stress and unless the pilot realises the dangers of the situation, it results in a departure stall.
The resulting mayhem is often fatal at low altitude and even when practised at a safe height will make you realise that no aeroplane is "easy to fly."
A spam can will kill you just as dead as any other plane if you don't pay attention.
Hopefully this insight might help you in your flying, which is the point of the post - not to attack you.
Obviously any plane is hard to fly if you do something crazy with it
The resulting mayhem is often fatal at low altitude and even when practised at a safe height will make you realise that no aeroplane is "easy to fly."
A spam can will kill you just as dead as any other plane if you don't pay attention.
Hopefully this insight might help you in your flying, which is the point of the post - not to attack you.
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I have to agree with whirly on this 1, I have flown many aircraft from Harvards to 600 NOTARS, its not the controls I'm interested in as such, more how the aircraft responds to my control inputs, is it light in roll and pitch and what rate of roll and pitch will the aircraft give, how powerful is the power plant, does the aircraft give you a sense of feel or not, take the differance between a B206 and a MDD600 for example, the 206 has very little feel to the cyclic, lts very light, yet the 600 is fantastic, bags of feel not to mention power.
Tiger Moth maybe when you build up your experiance you will be able to appreciate what others are saying.
And the comment about bringing back the speed in a 150...................... hehehe mmm great exercise.
Tiger Moth maybe when you build up your experiance you will be able to appreciate what others are saying.
And the comment about bringing back the speed in a 150...................... hehehe mmm great exercise.
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Tiger Moth - perhaps the reason that some people (ie me) got wound up is that you seem to make a habit of having strong opinions about things you have precious little knowledge of. It is IMHO a dangerous position for a student pilot to take, and you would do far better to spend more time listening than talking. In fairness, your orignal post was doing just that - asking for opinions, however your subsequent post was what wound people up:
This shows a lack of experience of flying generally. So tell us on what do you base your strongly held opinions: how many hours flying aircraft with a yoke, and how many with a stick?
You can use either hand on a stick just as with a yoke. Pilots no more use two hands on the yoke than they use two hands on a stick. If you need one hand on the throttle then which hand you use on the yoke will be dictated by the position of the throttle. The only time I tend to use two hands is in heavy turbulence.
Pilots are generally helpful people - ask sensible questions and you will get all the advice you need; spout baseless opinions and you will be shot down (metaphorically speaking).
yokes were designed for heavy planes not little light aircraft. They have no business in small planes
Shouldn't pilots keep one hand handy for the throttle?
Pilots are generally helpful people - ask sensible questions and you will get all the advice you need; spout baseless opinions and you will be shot down (metaphorically speaking).
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Final 3 Greens: no plane is easy to fly, but obviously some are easier than others. The situation you described is not quite crazy but I would not put my nose up while I was throttled down in the first place.
Lt: I accept everything you say. I prefer sticks and think they are better though.
Everybody here takes anything I say too seriously though: I basically said I prefered sticks and I get all this stick (for want of a better word) for it.
The debate over sticks vs yokes is obviously not very important , its more about preference yet you all treated it like I was claiming planes could fly without wings or something.
I admit the title was provocative, I admit sticks/yokes dont really matter, Im SORRY, it was just meant to be a light hearted debate but I really cant believe the response from some of you, I mean : it doesnt matter that much does it???
Now let this be an end to it
Lt: I accept everything you say. I prefer sticks and think they are better though.
Everybody here takes anything I say too seriously though: I basically said I prefered sticks and I get all this stick (for want of a better word) for it.
The debate over sticks vs yokes is obviously not very important , its more about preference yet you all treated it like I was claiming planes could fly without wings or something.
I admit the title was provocative, I admit sticks/yokes dont really matter, Im SORRY, it was just meant to be a light hearted debate but I really cant believe the response from some of you, I mean : it doesnt matter that much does it???
Now let this be an end to it
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Tiger
Okay then - try it at full power to simulate a mishandled go around - the result is even worse.
Also, you don't have to pitch up that much at 1500rpm to get into trouble - if you are distracted, you'd be surprised how easy it is to bleed your airspeed off, add a little bit of out of balance rudder and you buy the farm.
Please listen to this advice - or at least talk to an instructor.
but I would not put my nose up while I was throttled down in the first place
Also, you don't have to pitch up that much at 1500rpm to get into trouble - if you are distracted, you'd be surprised how easy it is to bleed your airspeed off, add a little bit of out of balance rudder and you buy the farm.
Please listen to this advice - or at least talk to an instructor.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 14th May 2002 at 18:39.
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Whats your point finals!
Like I said before any plane can be dangerous, but some are easier to fly than others. ( under normal conditions)
I never said you couldnt stall a cessna!!
Like I said before any plane can be dangerous, but some are easier to fly than others. ( under normal conditions)
I never said you couldnt stall a cessna!!
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Tiger
My point is that I am trying to be helpful to you, as you seem to have a blind spot in a potentially lethal area.
No matter how benign or pleasant the handling of an aircraft appears to be (what you apparently define as being easy to fly) they can all kill you in an instant.
You really need to understand that to be a safe pilot.
My point is that I am trying to be helpful to you, as you seem to have a blind spot in a potentially lethal area.
No matter how benign or pleasant the handling of an aircraft appears to be (what you apparently define as being easy to fly) they can all kill you in an instant.
You really need to understand that to be a safe pilot.