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Fly in Spain Jerez - personal review PPL training

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Fly in Spain Jerez - personal review PPL training

Old 13th Jul 2015, 13:48
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Düsseldorf, EDLE
Age: 38
Posts: 87
Re: your personal message and the posts here, a couple of things to add:

If you intend to complete the course within a few weeks, then it makes sense to pick a location with quite stable weather. As you've already researched yourself, Spain and the US spring to mind. When I did the calculation back in 2013, it made more sense financially to go to the US because I found FIS/Jerez quite expensive, to be honest.

If you don't neccessarily want an intensive course but you're generally apprehensive about many cancelled lessons due to weather hereabouts: In my view, it isn't actually so bad! I've taken some lessons here and there within the last 2 years and I'm obviously flying myself quite a lot and you really don't need to cancel that often!

There's obviously an advantage in learning in your "home" environment for later use (in terms of airspace, weather conditions, local regulations etc.). Yet there's also an advantage in learning in a different environment. It broadens your experience. Having learned in the US and studied UK theory and then flown out of Germany, I believe I was much more ready to venture out into other countries early on once I had the PPL than maybe some other pilots who've only flown within their own say 50 NM radius ever.

Regarding your language argument: Surely you must be able to find a FI here in Germany who is happy to teach you in English? There is not too much use for the German language in aviation anyway (apart from flying the circuit of some smaller airfields) and I usually stick to English for my radio calls and departure and emergency briefs etc.
Rhino25782 is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2015, 23:05
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 66
Does anyone have recent experience with the FI(A)-course at FIS? What is the price of the course? Is the course done with couples or individual as well?
XanderFly is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2015, 10:39
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: india
Posts: 1
0 to ATPL in FIS

How is the O-ATPL program in FIS Jerez. It says finish in 10 months, is it possible and is it worth the money to train there?
nidnat is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2015, 10:00
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1

I would really like comments about the question above..

Otto_nzr is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2016, 16:42
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 4
I got in contact with Hans and he explained some few questions I had

I plan on starting there in summer for the Semi Integrated ATPL (Residential) course. You have any advise on the route for someone with 0 experience if not this one?
Geodex is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2016, 11:52
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1
Hello, I did the IFR last year at Fly in Spain and you might be interested in my (bad) experience:

Location / Facility:
Direct at the airport, with 5 min. walking distance. It is a small school with a meeting room, 2-3 class rooms and two briefing pc. You need a rental car for Jerez or to a hotel, but the rental was very cheap.

They have also a FNTP II Simulator. Unfortunatley, it never worked properly (massive pitch control outages). Any requests to fix it has been promised but never performed (and the teachers told me that it was the case since many months).

The only restaurant in the area is in the airport. There is beverage machine at the school, but not always working.

Based on some troubles they caused at the end of my training (see below), it looks like that Fly in Spain is not an ATO as the official documents has been signed by a Punitz flight school in Austria.

My training should have been on two fully IFR equipped C172. The aircrafts were quite old and not well maintained (valid for interior and equipment; outside was ok). There was never (during 3 months with a break) an aircraft available which had both, precious and non-precious, working nav. instruments on board. Any escalation from the teacher and me to the head of back office and to the CEO did not change it (again, the promised it, but it has not been fixed). This is definitely also an issue, when you have the IFR exam flight, with no ADF on board and the airport DME has an outage (my experience…)

Teachers / training:
I saw 4 teachers from Germany, Spain and England, one was an IFR examiner. The two I had, were nice and very competent.

I got a private ground and flight training, both with good inctructions leading to an early success / practial exam. Afterwards, I had to pass an IFR voice exam in Switerzland (also EASA) and realised that the short radio instruction with Jerez and Sevilla was never enough for general IFR flights. So, I had to pay a lot for an additional voice course in Switzerland.

Good news was that they accepted a testimonial of my german CATS theory (they use the UK one), but I had to pay a 3 figures ‘admin fee’. They were also very flexible with the immediate start date of my training.

You have to pay a part in advance and will get the same day a reminder from the CEO or teacher if you have a negative balance. So, you might consider first a bank transfer to avoid the credit card charges.

After I passed the exam, they did not send my documents to me or to the government. Several request to the head of back office and CEO were not answered. After two months and an additional escalation, the found the document at Punitz flight school in Austra. Afterwards, they sent it to a location in SWEDEN instead of Switzerland. Again, no response from the head of back office or from the CEO after my request to fix it . Finally, I got the documents after 3 months and 'of course', the document were not complete…..

Summary of my experience :
It might be a cheap training and you will get professional instructors. However, do not expect well maintained aircrafts or ground equipment and definitely not any services you would expect as an customer who just has spent 10'000 Euros.


roland23 is offline  
Old 2nd May 2016, 21:22
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dublin
Posts: 6
What About Food and the duration of the course

You said ....

[I took 60 hours in total, altogether with accommodation I would say I was 13.000 €. Rental car was cheap, around 4 €/day.]

Which is great ...

What About Food and the duration of the course ? any advise
Sal007 is offline  
Old 3rd May 2016, 09:58
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 31
Nobody eats in the airport cafe, it's expensive and crap. There is a Spanish restaurant next to the airport called avenge that does a three course Spanish lunch for €8 including drinks. You can also get a swipe card from FTE next door to use their restaurant which does a fixed all you can eat menu for €5. I usually eat there as the food as great and it's 20yards from the school.

Duration of any course is down to the performance of the student.

The fleet is slowly being upgraded and there are two new glass cockpit 172 due for delivery shortly. The sim is now fixed.

With reference to Roland's comment about communications, it's the students responsibility to hold a minimum of ICAO level 4 aviation English. It is not the responsibility of the school to train you in this. When you do the theory exams you do a comma exam as well, when we do practical training you are expected to apply this. If you don't speak good enough English to understand the radio and apply the comms procedures you learnt as part of your theory then expect to do additional training.
S-Works is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2017, 21:01
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: London
Posts: 1
Hello - thinking of attempting to complete my PPL this spring by doing an intensive course at FIS. Currently holding just over 10 hours. I've got a few questions and would really appreciate the feedback!
1. I was advised by the school that if I focused on building my hours only, it would take up to 3 weeks to complete. However 35 hours over, say, 15 working days means as little as 2 and a bit hours of flying a day which doesn't seem very much? Would it be possible to shorten this to 2 weeks? Do you also do lessons at weekends?
2. If I book myself in for 35 hours, and full written 9 exams, but log more hours/ complete several exams before I go, do I still have to pay what I have/will not use?

Thanks a lot! R
Rachell is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2017, 08:45
  #50 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 107
Rachel, you may think that 2+ hours a day flight training is not much, but believe me, in a high stress situation such as aviation training, it is mentally very tiring. Put this together with the study time you would need for your exams, you will be amazed at how draining this can be. You are also assuming that you will have flying weather every day, and this certainly isn't guaranteed. The USA flight school I attended did claim to have one student complete the PPL in three weeks. I decided to do an extra week, and I'm glad I did, as I only just managed to complete my check flight the day before I left.

I speak from experience, as someone who went to Florida to do my PPL. However, I did 5 hours training in the UK before I left, and I also completed about 75% of the exams beforehand (something I would recommend as almost essential). You should also consider additional training back in the UK, once you get your PPL (as I did), as you should consider the piece of paper as a license to continue learning as I am sure you will. The thing you miss out on with an intensive course is the incidental experiences you collect along the way of a more traditional approach of learning over months/years. You have to collect these after your PPL, rather than during, but they should not be under estimated (hence the continuation training or hour building flying I recommend)

Having said that, it is great fun to do an intensive training course away from home, a real adventure. I loved every minute of it, and consider it one of the great experiences of my life. I would thoroughly recommend it, as long as you go into it with your eyes open, and accept it for what it is. I did it this way as I couldn't afford to give my weekends up over months/years, and did it abroad so I would have a better chance of favourable weather in the short time available, than I would have in the UK.

I did a blog of my training, mainly for my family at home, but you might find some of it interesting and relevant to what you should expect.

Florida Blog
BobD is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2017, 14:16
  #51 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: E3 holding short of 20....
Posts: 17
Rachell I will share with you my experience with FIS. To be more up to date call them or email them.

Regarding the flying part, last February (2016) I was able to fly 3 hours a day (1.5 am and 1.5 pm). On top of that consider adding briefing time and debriefing.
Flying more than that it can be tiring. I would advice you to go first with 2 per day, then try to have some days with longer hours but not to plan more than that amount per day.
Weather-wise I had only one rainy day and one foggy day. Almost every day you will be able to fly. I was able to fly on weekends as well.
The cost of living in Jerez is very low and nice place to stay. You can do activities on your day off (no matter how much you want to fly, at least you should have a day off per week to clear your mind).
The team at FIS were very flexible with me and if you pay more than what you fly you get the money transferred back (I left Jerez with a balanced on my favor and I got it transferred back to me few days later).

For me the most important factor was the weather causing no disruptions in my plan and the professionalism of the school (UK level, Spanish weather and German aircrafts).

For the accommodation I used Airbnb, as other option there is a hotel that has a deal with the school (as I said before, the cost of living is very low).
Train is 10 minutes per ride (plus 10 walking) and 2 euros per ticket. There is a bus that takes you from the city centre and Taxis per ride to the airport are 15 flat.
If you want to rent a car *consider a parking for your stay, small car rental per month can be near 350 euros/400.
Airgus is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2017, 17:33
  #52 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 5
I did my PPL at FIS in April - May 2015. I started from scratch and just completed in four weeks. It really was pushing it though, and I would have been much less stressed if I had given myself six weeks, but my window was really limited. I took my last skills test on the afternoon before my flight home.

Like others, there are times when you cannot fly even once a day because of the weather. These days are infrequent, but you only need two or three with a tight two flight a day schedule to get behind. Similarly, one instructor became ill for a couple of days and another went home for a short break which left the school very short.

When I went to the manager / coordinator and explained that I was falling well behind in hours they were very helpful and worked hard at getting me up as much as possible. I am not sure how many instructors they have now as some of the ones there during my time transferred to the FTE outfit.

You will not be charged for hours you don't use, although you have to keep your flying account in credit. They do fly on Saturdays and can train on Sundays as well if necessary.

When I came home with my licence, I undertook further training to gain confidence in the different conditions. R/T discipline is also tighter over here, but that shouldn't be a problem if you have been flying in the UK and have already taken the exam (I took mine immediately on my return home).
c.172 is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2017, 19:13
  #53 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Maidenhead
Posts: 2
I don't post here very often and have not done any training outside the UK.
I would suggest to you that you will find a PPL training course in any country demanding. If you can get the standard you want outside the UK, at a cost that you can afford, do so by all means.
But remember that you will be flying in the UK (I assume).
The weather is unique and flying in the south of England is also very challenging with interesting airspace to say the least.
You will need some sort of training when you return to the UK. I would hate for you to become a statistic.
I hope you enjoy the course, it will be hard work.
map56233 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2017, 06:07
  #54 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Günzburg, Germany
Posts: 41
I agree with the view that one should also consider doing their training in the country they'd be flying. Weather puts off too many prospective students who tend to look at Spain and the US. The weather for flying could be restrictive even in Spain. There are factors that new students don't know or consider, e.g. wind, cloud ceiling, aircrafts' condition etc.

FIS seems to have good reputation. I'd only suggest to book your calendar only a few days in advance when you have some idea about the weather.

If possible, take all your exams before you start flying. It is not relaxing when you need to go home to the books after 2-3 hours flying.
indyaachen is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2017, 18:02
  #55 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 107
Rachell, it sounds like FIS offer the same facility I enjoyed from my Florida school, so I recommend you take advantage of it, you'll be glad you did.
Best of luck with your training.
BobD is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2017, 10:39
  #56 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: London
Posts: 1
I am looking at booking my ppl at FIS this March. I have been sent a booking form by the FIS team asking for around 16% holding deposit plus 5,000 euros to be paid on or before arrival. From what I have read else where this is not standard. A holding deposit of 10% is typical, from there I should only expect to keep a positive balance in a flying account. I am a bit put off by the 5,000 euro curve ball.

Any advice from others who have flown at FIS and thier payment structure would be very much appreciated.
lapdog is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2017, 09:43
  #57 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8
Just a quick question, does this school do the full theory training/exams as well as the flight time?

I don't learn well with distance learning and I'm looking for a PPL school that will do the theory side of things aswell to give myself the best chance of passing.

Tried speaking to FIS over e-mail but their replies were not consistent, sometimes had to send an e-mail a few times to get a response, and the english response wasn't easy to understand. Not their fault as I assume spanish PoC and English isn't their first language.
Bmarks930 is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2017, 10:18
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 122

Over the years many students have lost their funds when flying schools have gone under, a search of these forums will give tales of woe. The general concensus has always been to pay as you go with any up-front payments made by credit card (for your own protection).
Right Hand Thread is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2017, 20:30
  #59 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 11
Hello Bmarks930

when I had my training at FIS (2014) they offered the full theory ground training. It depended on the student how many hours ground training he wanted/needed.

But better get this confirmed by them directly, even if it takes some patience sometimes.

Concerning earlier posts whether to do training in the home country or somewhere else, here's my experience.

I trained in Spain, CTR-experience was good, I would not have gotten this experience at schools at smaller airfields.
When I came to my home country with my fresh license, I took several hours with a local FI. Things were a bit different, but not too different. Basically, getting used to short runways, grass fields, local language (and dialect ;-) on the radio.
downsetgo is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 14:12
  #60 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Belgium
Posts: 6
FIS first contact.

Yesterday (12 APR 2017) I contacted FIS by e-mail for the first time. I am looking for flight training for a PPL (and then probably CPL) for my youngest and might want to train for a PPL myself. Every day that I am researching all this the 'might' gets closer to 'probably will' to a point where I started to do some planning.

I had contact with Hans at FIS by e-mail and got a very fast reply to my questions. I ordered the "Kit 1 - Flight Training" package to start intensive preparations for my youngest. At young age becomming a pilot might be a pipe-dream so I want to see effort and awareness that getting a PPL/CPL is about studying, passing exams, training, failing, perseverance, mastering English, being responsible etc and not just a pleasure ride (in which case a LAPL and flying ULM in clear weather conditions is more then sufficient IMO) before I spend 15K/25K Euro pp (all in) for a initial PPL knowing it will cost more behind that initial PPL later.

I received filled in order forms and clear instruction from Hans (FIS). My order was placed with FIS the same day. As the world of aviation is new to me I didn't know FIS and was under the impression that everybody at some stage went to the US. Apparently that is more so for the heavier work such as ATPL licenses.

However, I found this board an red all the comments. My main concern before ordering and providing credit card info was making sure FIS wasn't a scam. So I found them on Google Maps, in testimonials, checked out the phone numbers, certification claims, etc. So now I am at ease. Call me an internet paranoid

My incentive for looking at FIS was not so much the price, although further research showed me they have very competitive pricing. So here is my impression AS A NEWBIE after my internet research on the subject and reading all of the comments about FIS.

- Weather. Yes Spain will have bad weather too but I approach this statistically and not based one or more individual experiences. Nobody can deny that in the South of Spain your chances of good weather are much higher then in the channel region (South UK,North of France, Belgium, Netherlands, ..., etc). All, non aviation related, weather statistics show that. So I feel for those of you that had bad luck with the weather when at FIS but I cannot hold that against FIS, can I?

- Experience in bad weather conditions is needed. OK, I agree because even a newbie like me can understand that. But if one has a PPL what keeps that person from taking some extra flying lessons in those geographic ares where he will fly most or of which he wants to master the weather conditions better? First I want a GOOD PATH towards a PPL/CPL then we will deal with more specific needs because without PPL/CPL there isn't even any need to become more specific IMO. I am a first-things-first man.

- Instructors get sick and then you must wait because FIS hasn't sufficient instructors. Hmmm! FIS has a 4 weeks PPL program I saw, but nobody keeps you from spreading it over 6 or more weeks or cut it in multiple visits. Running a tight schedule will increase your risk of getting behind but it is an educated decision you that you make. Furthermore I never read about the student getting sick, I figure that happens too? Business people involved in project planning know you need to build in margins and I guess that is not different when you plan a training scheduled that includes a number of elements that are not under your control such as illness, whether and equipment availability. Maybe that is a to pragmatic approach in aviation I don't know but I am sure someone will point that out then.

- About other schools. The need for good instructors seems to be high and most schools have the same problem. Sick, late or even no show instructors, no replacements and students that needs a lot of patience is what I seem to understand. And there are for sure some excellent ones that anticipate everything that can go wrong but very often that comes at a price. In my case I would have to look from the North of France to the West of The Netherlands and in the end how do you really know where the good ones are. So a longer somewhat short stay in Spain sounds more practical then driving 200 km to and from a good aviation training school with a possible stressful training flight in between.

- The simulator at FIS doesn't work. OK that I have to accept because it was confirmed indirectly by a poster of FIS saying it was fixed. I figure that if these things are discussed online management of a flying school starts working at it because specifically in the FIS training offer, where people go to Spain, you cannot easily say come back next month. I also think that where there is technology there is failure, interruption for maintenance, repair contracts, etc. So expecting no failures is not realistic, yet expecting a decent repair time is, IMO although I have no idea how things go in the simulator repair business, a normal expectation.

- FIS has plains/at least one plain with motor failures. This generalisation was illustrated by ONE example and contested as being a pilot error. Hard to say but I figure that if this would really be an ongoing problem and given the fact that apparently quite some people pass at FIS this board would be filled with complains about that which it clearly isn't. So I am going to ignore that the more that FIS seems to have two new Cessna's now with glass cockpit (although I have no clue why the glass cockpit is important).

- Flying in Spain isn't good for our own schools (in our countries). Sorry but the internet shops aren't good for our own stores and apparently, while this is economically a bigger problem, nobody seem to care. I actually say that the FIS formula keeps local schools from MILKING candidate pilots as they show it can be done way more economically elsewhere. In my book competition, if quality is maintained, is good.

- From all comments I can at least draw one conclusion based on an apparent consensus of posters on this board: FIS has excellent instructors.
And isn't it that what we all look for? So training for engine failure up to the wheels on the ground seems to me, again a newbie, what you would want to master as part of a basic PPL. You train for the problem situations not for leisure landscape watching. Assuming that you will always be able to restart the engine doesn't sound like a realistic expectations even while engine failures that are due to a defect are very rare (statistically) compared to engine failures that are due to bad mix regulation, forgetting to switch gas tanks, etc which are all pilot errors that you can correct if you are well trained (you see I did some newbie home work . If you cannot restart the engine THEN, under stress, calculating your potential gliding distance, finding an airfield or a spot to land on, communicating, etc that is why I would want to train for and I understand that at FIS that is exactly what they do.

The above is a PERSONAL OPINION and I have NEVER set foot at FIS and never had any PL training. This below is how I (we - my youngest and probably me) plan to go about it. I'dd enjoy comments if someone has improvements or sees unrealistic approaches in what I planned.

- I ordered the "Kit 1 Pilot Training" from FIS (I expect it within 10 days as advertised) and I will use book # 7 (Communications) to prepare for the RT part of the EPL. We will practice with the questions from the applicable 9 FIS
test question books to prepare. (See below why I ordered the complete Kit).

- We will enlist in a local Aviation Club and get access to local teachers to dry run the above RT without having to go to Spain. Knowledge from a book is different from what people with experience tell you.

- Additionally lift the level of English. That will be less needed for me as I work in English daily but the English of students coming out of high school with English as the 3rd language (Belgium) can be improved. I will first take the EPL in a certified exam centre and will aim for level 6 and will then have an idea of the expectations. I had military radio procedure training when I was in military service so I figure getting used to the Aviation RT format and vocabulary, the accents and poor radio quality conditions in noisy cockpits shouldn't be a big problem. I will then adjust the English training of my youngest where needed. I know they record (video+sound) the EPL exam and it would be nice if one gets a copy to show how it works. I am aware of the certification needs of the exam centre in order to have a valid EPL certificate that can be transcribed on a PPL/CPL of any EASA member country.

- I will get a class 2 medical certificate (I would do PPL but not CPL) and my youngest a class 1 because if later a CPL is the goal then I want to be sure upfront we do not detect a major medical complication at that point. I want to know it UP-FRONT because without class 1 medical a CPL is not a possibility. If however a medical situation submerges later then that is an acceptable risk one needs to take. I do the medical in second place mainly to avoid surprises in the future and I do it after the English test because without that learning to fly, IMO, is to limited (maybe gliding).

- I will then start using the other books of the Kit 1 from FIS and their questions books to reach a decent level of knowledge, see some perseverance and continued interest and see if it becomes clear that flying isn't just sitting in a plane and looking at the landscape to impress your friends (young people will be young people) before I start really spending money.

- At the same time, and to prevent that the theory presented in a dry book form without any practice would cause a to high threshold, we will use x-plain version 11 with Cessna 172 to learn the instruments, basic vocabulary and PLAY TRAIN some and get a BEGINNING of an idea of what to expect when one steps into a Cessna 172 for the first time. Call it amatory familiarisation.

- Next, after the self-study and the x-plane simulator, I plan to schedule in the 100 Hours of required ground training at FIS and take all 9 theoretical exams if I see that the level of answering of the test questions in the FIS question books is sufficient. I am not a fan of PPL/CPL exams in the local language because all aviation manuals, the flight control language and other communication, books and internet information are all, at least, available in English. Even ATC in Belgium is in English and not accessible in the local language as I found out. So I see passing the written theoretical exam in English as an added value if one would go behind a PPL or in type ratings where I suppose air plain specific documentation and training would be mainly in English. It also keeps MUCH MORE future training options open if for instance some continuation in the US would be needed (e.g. certain type training for type ratings).

- Next the practical training. I believe in 'total submersion". Students have summer holidays and going to Spain for two mounts with the family (renting a house or apartment and going there by car) sounds like a plan that everyone will like. So we take flight training and the others have holidays and provide practical support (meals, shopping, etc). In about 60 days one should be able to complete at least 45 flying hours each and there would be room for some extra hours (ah, the weather in Spain, sick instructors, the others wanting to visit Cadiz and Seville, can we have a party dad, etc . And we would take the 9 practical exams as well.

- Then, supposing we pass, I get the PPL, transcription of the EPL etc on the licences and then take some local lessons to fly in the channel region weather conditions (North Sea) and start building up some flying hours and experience.

- After that we plan for a CPL and for me only extra ratings as needed (e.g. NVRF, full IR-HPA, complex, Mountains, etc according to what I need when I need it or what I would like to do without needing it) which should allow me to fly non-commercial in most of Western-Europe. We'll see from there if we ever get there.

What you have read about are the conclusions a newbie came to when rationally evaluating all the information available on the internet and without being in the realm of pilots and aviation. One needs to start somewhere. Except for the fact that everyone knows that pilot licenses are not distributed in Santa packages and that it will take effort, will be hard and test ones character by moments, I wonder if the above plan makes sense or if it is completely idiotic given the way contemporary pilot training works.

Thank you all for reading.
AirWaterloo is offline  

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