IMC advice please!

[Cassman]

I passed my PPL skills test yesterday and am considering doing the IMC rating. Ideally at this point, I'd be taking it easy, doing some leisurely flying with my club's aircraft, and maybe start thinking about another rating next year, but it seems I'll need to have done the test by April before the rating disappears. I'm (at best) an average pilot: "that wasn't the best test I've ever taken, but I'll pass you" was what I heard before getting out of the cockpit. With that in mind:

While the minimum dual training required is 15 hours, what's a realistic estimate for an average pilot spreading it out over 5-6 months? It took me 52 hours over 14 months to get my PPL.

If I do the rating, I guess I don't have much choice, but how advisable is it to just dive in immediately and start the course - I don't have much time left before April, and it may take a month for me to receive my license (and be allowed to fly solo), so I'm sorely tempted to crack on next week. I know that I'll need to rack up an extra 10 hrs solo in the background.

And just to confirm, am I right in thinking that if I get the rating before April its privileges last forever, and if I don't, there's no way of doing anything similar and I'd have to get a proper IR (which is clearly out of the question).

Thanks

[Johnm]

I think my advice would be get on with it. It will force you to work on precision and systematic flying which will make you a better more confident pilot.

Seat of the pants flying is impossible in IMC

[Gertrude the Wombat]

While the minimum dual training required is 15 hours, what's a realistic estimate for an average pilot spreading it out over 5-6 months?

More like 30 hours spread over two years for me, but I wasn't trying that hard, and mostly only had IMCr lessons in winter, and I wasn't up against a deadline. And I could have taken (and passed) the test somewhat earlier, I just had this vain hope that I would get better at it with more lessons!

[Cobalt]

Maybe you didn't fly the best skill test ever, but if it took you 52 hours over 14 months, that is pretty good, so you appear to learn at reasonable pace and, more importantly, retain it quite well.

While there is nothing wrong with yielding to a good temptation (well, certain things excepted if you are married or similar), normally you should have your en-route flying reasonably automatic before you add flying under the hood. By this I mean that staying on heading and altitude "just happens".

So perhaps, instead of sitting on the ground for a month, start out training without a hood, but including radio navigation, to ease you in instead of starting full-on.

And please, use a hood when it gets to it, not foggles - foggles are cheating.

[piperarcher]

I did my IMCr in something like 16 hours. What helped me was bashing out holds and approaches on MS Flight sim. One, it is much cheaper and secondly you can pause and check or reflect on what you are doing and hone your skills that way. You have to be careful not to take too many shortcuts while using it as it might mess up your routine, and in real life you have varying ATC instructions, a non-precise wind direction and bumpiness etc... But if you're pressed for time, and want to do it in the minimum, find a good flight sim package and an aircraft that is a replica of what you fly, and I reckon you will do OK.

I am also an 'average' pilot - I never was a natural Biggles, but the IMCr will improve your skills and competence, and give you additional confidence.

[Jim59]

I agree totally with piper archer. I did the rating in under 20 hours including the test but spent many more on MS Flight Sim. I still revise on MS FS before the renewal test every 25 months.

[piperarcher]

I did the rating in under 20 hours including the test but spent many more on MS Flight Sim. I still revise on MS FS before the renewal test every 25 months.

So do I. And it doesnt matter how many different wind configurations I try, I can always do fairly decent holds and NDB approaches on MS FlightSim, but in real life on my IMC renewal I always seem to mess it up. I think a mixture of nerves; lack of decent situational awareness in an examined situation; winds certainly not being that which is forecast; changing wind conditions in the descent; the fact that MS FlightSim doesnt display ADF dip error; the fact that the training aircraft's instruments and equipment are (IMHO) a bit iffy. No problem with anything else - just ADF holds, which although are not mandatory on a renewal, always seem to be issued to me by Cambridge ATC Arggghhh.

In my experience, the thing with the IMCr is that a lot of people just use it to fly in and get above cloud, only use approaches as fail-safe or as an alternative to a home-made letdown, and certainly never would want to do a NDB hold 'just for fun'. A great rating to have though :-)

[Scott C]

It would all depend on your personal ability - you could do it in 15 hours, or it may be 20... either way, you've only got 6 months to get the training done and get the rating issued.

I did mine in minimum time, but I had a very good instructor who had also taught me during my PPL and Night Rating training.

As well as the 15 hours minimum flying time, there is also another written exam to pass and of course, the IMC Rating flight test.

It has been a very useful rating to me and has got me out of some situations that I could see could become very unpleasant! I believe it helps to make you a better Pilot too, as you have to fly pretty accurately - My instructor knows that I intend to progress to CPL and IR, so he made me fly to IR standards, which I can only see as being a good thing!

Good Luck with the training and if you set your mind to it, i'm sure you'll have the rating in your hand in no time

P.S. Congratulations on gaining your PPL, I still remember how nervous I was on my Skills Test!

[thing]

Did mine and the night qual within six months of doing the skills test. Did it in about 17 hours including the test.

Reason I did it more or less straight after the skills test was that I was still in 'training' mode and I hadn't picked up any bad habits. The other reason was I never saw the vanilla PPL as a license to fly, the night and IMC were always part of the license to me.

I use mine all of the time; I'm lucky that I fly from a well equiped airfield and if I haven't done an approach for real within a month I go off and do a few practice ones. You have to keep on top of it, not for the actual hands on flying bit but for the procedures, they are the bits that I tend to get rusty on if I don't do them fairly regularly.

The other reason you do it of course is to punch through a grey rainy overcast into a brilliant blue sky...never get sick of doing that.

Oh and congrats on the PPL, welcome to poverty!!

[riverrock83]

I'm in the process of slowing doing my IR(r). Aiming for the end of the year but that is going to be tight. Remember that each lesson may well be 1 1/2 hours rather than the 1 hour PPL lessons (it takes 15min to follow the procedure / do an SRA at my home base).
How is your mental maths? Lots of trying to work out: wind correction angles / radials to fly / turn 30 deg one way than 180 degress the other / turn 30 deg at 3 degrees per second, so how many seconds to turn for at rate 1.
My mental maths is appalling so that's what I'm practising...

Ideally you would spend some time getting used to being a VFR PPL first before doing this - I agree. I did around 5 hours of bits and pieces before starting (and ideally would have been more).

Note:

a) Experience
i) 25 hours total experience as pilot of aeroplanes following PPL issue and which
may include the training for the IMC rating.
ii) 10 hours as Pilot in Command of aeroplanes to including 5 hours as Pilot in
Command of aeroplanes on cross-country flights.

So not much point in starting until after you have got your licence. Mind you - its a 10 working day turn-a-round by the CAA at the moment...

In saying that - if you're like me, you have a number of things after your skill test which you want to practice. I don't want to think how many PFLs I've practised in those 5 hours since the skill test. Its also good to make sure you keep up currency - so if you have the opportunity - go up again anyway.

PS - Congrats on the Skill Test!!

[CaptainChairborne]

I only ever go flying if there is a good view. Clouds from the inside don't interest me

[Jim59]

You don't need to be in cloud to be IMC. Check out the vertical distance from cloud to fly through class D airspace VFR when SERA hits us in Dec 2014!

Glider pilots are unhappy that they will not be legal unless 1000' vertically clear of cloud when above 3000'.

In recently closed SERA consultation CAA expect pilots will have to remain clear of class D airspace when VFR much more than now due to increased flight visibility and distance from cloud rule changes for next year.

Get the rating - it will let you continue to fly outside cloud in situations where it will otherwise be illegal!

[CaptainChairborne]

OK Jim, I'll rephrase that:

I only ever go flying if there is a good view. Going anywhere near clouds doesn't interest me.

I'm not going to get the rating, I'm not interested in getting something that will allow me to do something that I'm not going to do, and that would take time and money to keep current. Like many, many pilots, my sort of flying isn't like that.

People who want the rating should go for it, people who don't shouldn't.

[thing]

People who want the rating should go for it, people who don't shouldn't.

Don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. I don't like squid so I don't eat it.

[proudprivate]

but how advisable is it to just dive in immediately and start the course - I don't have much time left before April

I would recommend to go for it. With the winter coming, it is also a great way of keeping up flying.

[Lagentium]

I don't eat anything that comes from the sea Thing, sad but true!

Cheers, Jim

[stickandrudderman]

It will make you a better pilot. Do it.

[Cusco]

Just do it: You'll never regret it and one day (pause for dramatic effect) it may save your life.

Cusco.