Insurance and Registration

[steve1234]

According to the ANO on a private of shared plane you have to be a registered as a beneficial owner to fly legally. Does anyone know where you stand if you are not on the CAA register but are a named on the insurance?

Would you still be insured if you flew a plane under these circumstances?

[Piper.Classique]

I'm sure someone will be along with chapter and verse but doesn't that restriction only apply to flying training?

[Whopity]

As you are not a registered owner of the aircraft you have no legal right to claim part ownership. ANO Art 6. This will have no effect on the insurance if you are nominated as a pilot of the aircraft however; there may be an issue if the aircraft is maintained to private standards and as you are not legally a joint owner, then any payment for the use or hire of the aircraft would be illegal. If the aircraft is maintained to commercial transport standards then there is no problem with paying to use the aircraft. Issues related to Flight Training are covered in AIC 1/2011

[Mark 1]

A private owner can quite legally allow another pilot to fly their aircraft without it being considered a hire arrangement, but the owner can't accept payment for anything other than the direct cost (i.e. fuel used).

The exemption to the rules if you own at least 5% of the aircraft allows you to pay a fair proportion of all fixed and direct costs (insurance, hangarage, maintenance etc) without it being considered private hire.

[Maoraigh1]

you are not on the CAA register

It's normal for only one or two Group members to show as CAA Registered Owners. We've got one at present - we've never had all six appearing on the site. If you own a Group Share, then you're OK. I'm not sure if the CAA even need to have you on record.
(I was one of the two Registered Owners when a third member had a fatal accident - there was no problem with insurance /AAIB / CAA.)

[UV]

Quite common for one or two named people to be registered as "Trustees of the assets of the ...Flying Group".
Saves re-registration every time there is a member change.

[Mark 1]

It is normal for only one or two names to appear on the certificate of registration as trustees. But all people who have a share of the aircraft must be notified using this form.

From what I can see, there is no easy public access to the details of the other group members.

[Whopity]

I'm not sure if the CAA even need to have you on record.

The Law states quite clearly that it is: ANO Article 6:

(2) If the CAA receives an application for the registration of an aircraft in the United
Kingdom and is satisfied that the aircraft may properly be so registered, the CAA must
register the aircraft, wherever it may be, and include in the register the following
information:

(e) the name and address of every person who is entitled as owner to a legal interest
in the aircraft or a share of the aircraft or, in the case of an aircraft which is the
subject of a charter by demise, the name and address of the charterer by demise;

must be notified using this form.

The form is rather out of date!

[flybymike]

I am not sure that any of the above applies where the flying group operates as a limited company, and where the company, not the group members, are listed as the owner.
Certainly in the case of the limited company groups of which I have been a member, not all flying group members were registered with the CAA, merely the company itself and nominal directors(s)

[All-The-Nines]

Certainly in the case of the limited company groups of which I have been a member, not all flying group members were registered with the CAA, merely the company itself and nominal directors(s)

Correct.

If the aircraft is maintained to 'public transport standards' then you do not have to be a registered owner to rent it. By rent, I'm talking about 'non-equity' groups, or flying 'clubs' where your membership entitles you to use the aircraft.

However, if you own a share then you should legally be recorded with the CAA as a registered owner (see the Trustee form link above). If you own a share in an aircraft, but it's registered to someone else's Limited company, you would have virtually no say in the matter if that Director decided to sign ownership of the aircraft away to himself and run away with the money!

And in terms of the 'maintained to public transport standard' definition, unfortunately this is something that we have sought clarity regarding but there doesn't seem to be a straight answer, especially with the EASA transition. Basically, anything with a CofA would be maintained to public transport standards as part of the permit process. However, there is some blurring of the boundaries between this and Permit to Fly aircraft, particularly those that have been built in a factory eg. the Ikarus C42.

To be honest if you have any questions, you should email aircraft.reg(at)caa.co.uk - they deal with the insurance, registration/trustee/ownership issues and will normally reply within a week quite unlike many other CAA departments.

[flybymike]

However, if you own a share then you should legally be recorded with the CAA as a registered owner (see the Trustee form link above). If you own a share in an aircraft, but it's registered to someone else's Limited company, you would have virtually no say in the matter if that Director decided to sign ownership of the aircraft away to himself and run away with the money!

I am talking about a group formed and registered with the CAA as a limited company ( a very common arrangement) and where the owners of the aircraft are shareholders in the company.
A director can no more run away with the shareholder's aircraft or money under this arrangement than he/she could under any other arrangement.