Rumour
The answer lies in the licence privileges. Schedule 7 applies to a UK PPL
Now compare that with the EASA licence privileges in Part FCL
So you will see if you hold a JAA now EASA PPL there is no 3 Km restriction, neither is there any requirement to remain in sight of the surface. You are limited only by the VMC minima.
(2) The holder may not:
(c) unless the licence includes an instrument rating (aeroplane) or an instrument
meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes), fly as pilot in command of such an
aeroplane:
(i) on a flight outside controlled airspace if the flight visibility is less than
three km;
(ii) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 10 km
except on a route or in an aerodrome traffic zone notified for the purpose of
this sub-paragraph; or
(iii) out of sight of the surface;
(c) unless the licence includes an instrument rating (aeroplane) or an instrument
meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes), fly as pilot in command of such an
aeroplane:
(i) on a flight outside controlled airspace if the flight visibility is less than
three km;
(ii) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 10 km
except on a route or in an aerodrome traffic zone notified for the purpose of
this sub-paragraph; or
(iii) out of sight of the surface;
FCL.205.A PPL(A) — Privileges
(a) The privileges of the holder of a PPL(A) are to act without remuneration as PIC or co-pilot on aeroplanes or TMGs engaged in non-commercial operations. and
FCL.600 IR — General
Operations under IFR on an aeroplane, helicopter, airship or powered-lift aircraft shall only be conducted by holders of a PPL, CPL, MPL and ATPL with an IR appropriate to the category of aircraft or when undergoing skill testing or dual instruction.
(a) The privileges of the holder of a PPL(A) are to act without remuneration as PIC or co-pilot on aeroplanes or TMGs engaged in non-commercial operations. and
FCL.600 IR — General
Operations under IFR on an aeroplane, helicopter, airship or powered-lift aircraft shall only be conducted by holders of a PPL, CPL, MPL and ATPL with an IR appropriate to the category of aircraft or when undergoing skill testing or dual instruction.
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The answer lies in the licence privileges. Schedule 7 applies to a UK PPL
Now compare that with the EASA licence privileges in Part FCL
So you will see if you hold a JAA now EASA PPL there is no 3 Km restriction, neither is there any requirement to remain in sight of the surface. You are limited only by the VMC minima.
Now compare that with the EASA licence privileges in Part FCL
So you will see if you hold a JAA now EASA PPL there is no 3 Km restriction, neither is there any requirement to remain in sight of the surface. You are limited only by the VMC minima.
OLD UK PPL (without an IMCr or IR)
Can operate IFR or VFR
Can operate in some but not all IMC conditions
Can't operate in some VMC conditions
New EASA PPL
Can operate only VFR
Can operate in only VMC
Can not operate in any IMC or IFR
Note - VMC and IMC as used above are defined as
VMC = conditions which meet the ICAO conditions of being 'VMC',
IMC = conditions which are not VMC.
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OLD UK PPL (without an IMCr or IR)
Can operate IFR or VFR
Can operate IFR or VFR
OLD UK PPL (without an IMCr or IR)
Can operate in some but not all IMC conditions
Can operate in some but not all IMC conditions
with this. Curious - Can you give any examples?
True, but only if it is optional. So must be in VMC conditions
Can you give any examples?
Flying an aircraft within 1000 ft of a cloud layer while above 3000 ft amsl in class G
Both are technically IMC, require compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules, but both are permitted to a UK PPL without an instrument qualification.
Last edited by bookworm; 1st Mar 2013 at 18:47.
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Flying an aircraft at greater than 150 KIAS in a visibility of 3 km in class G
Flying an aircraft within 1000 ft of a cloud layer while above 3000 ft amsl in class G
Flying an aircraft within 1000 ft of a cloud layer while above 3000 ft amsl in class G
Having now re-checked: Mandatory IFR in airspace Class A, B, C, D & E was
not allowed but, as you point out, in Class G (&F) it was.
Having now re-checked: Mandatory IFR in airspace Class A, B, C, D & E was not allowed but, as you point out, in Class G (&F) it was.
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Indeed. As for "mandatory", I've never really understood the phrase "in circumstances that require compliance with the IFR". If you accept an IFR clearance to enter controlled airspace, are you not flying "in circumstances that require compliance with the IFR"? Or is there a suggestion that a UK PPL could accept an IFR clearance in class D in VMC?
Thank you for providing the answers to the type of IMC UK PPLs can fly in.
I also was amused by the 'in circumstances...' language and asked SRG for an answer. They basically indicated that it included (at the time) the obvious examples of
1 - flight in IMC
2 - flight at night not under a SVFR clearance
And then additionally, their logic was that even on a CAVU day, once you where granted an IFR clearance you were then in circumstances requiring compliance with IFR until you cancelled IFR.
So in a very catch 22 sense, on VMC day a UK PPL in controlled airspace can fly IFR (because the circumstances allow it) but can not accept the IFR clearance necessary to fly IFR (because he would then be in circumstances requiring compliance with IFR in CAS ) - clearly Joseph Heller was a consultant on drafting this piece of legislation.
A very complicated way of saying IFR forbidden to PPLs in controlled airspace.
Last edited by mm_flynn; 2nd Mar 2013 at 13:09.
