Training scotland
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pilots
I actually know 3 commercial pilots,who fly for "local" small airlines, and trust me spelling would be the least of there worries , if you met 2 of them you would never believe in a million years they were pilots!!! i wouldn't sit in a car beside them 
Last edited by ecosse; 14th Jan 2013 at 20:10.
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Just remember 
you will be going to your flying school more than 13 times, probably more like 26. Things never turn out the way you want them to in training, there'll be a bunch of reasons, not the least of which will be weather. It can get very frustrating not being able to do anything else until the day and when the weather is marginal you end up at the school anyway which may well turn out to be 2 hours of wasted driving.
Most of the schools will give you good training but you have an excellent PPL club on your doorstep at Prestwick, availability might be irritating but on the days when you can't get to fly, at least you'll be close enough to do something else.
Just an observation Email Prestwick flying club, go see them and take a lesson.
you will be going to your flying school more than 13 times, probably more like 26. Things never turn out the way you want them to in training, there'll be a bunch of reasons, not the least of which will be weather. It can get very frustrating not being able to do anything else until the day and when the weather is marginal you end up at the school anyway which may well turn out to be 2 hours of wasted driving.Most of the schools will give you good training but you have an excellent PPL club on your doorstep at Prestwick, availability might be irritating but on the days when you can't get to fly, at least you'll be close enough to do something else.
Just an observation
Email Prestwick flying club, go see them and take a lesson.
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Yep, good points. There are other issues. Glasgow will certainly assist your holds. Busy airport means multiple holds at Erskine Bridge. Good for holding level altitude, sore on pocket.
CBN limited access to 'big airport' ATC and movements.
Prestwick can give best of both words. Not too busy, but still mixing with the bigger boys, and R/T with an international feel.
Yep Prestwick a must check.
CBN limited access to 'big airport' ATC and movements.
Prestwick can give best of both words. Not too busy, but still mixing with the bigger boys, and R/T with an international feel.
Yep Prestwick a must check.
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Nice to see the edit for grammar or should i say grammer and spelling was picked up pmsl!! i should never have doubted you guys would have missed it 
I have mailed both "Prestwick Flying Club" and "Prestwick Flight School"
Will try and get a flight this weekend or before with one or the other hopefully, and see how this goes i will let you all know.
I have mailed both "Prestwick Flying Club" and "Prestwick Flight School"
Will try and get a flight this weekend or before with one or the other hopefully, and see how this goes i will let you all know.
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Prestwick has a lot going for it if you live in Kilwinning rather than Central Scotland. Prestwick, (ATC & School) have been very friendly when I've been there, on my Nav Test, my QXC and when I had to Wx Divert there when Oban got cut off by rain.
A friend of mine is doing his circuit training at Perth as there are no landing fees, so that saves quite a bit of money compared to Cumbernauld or Prestwick. Once he has done his solo he'll go back to Cumbernauld for more lessons, but expects to split his training hours between both airfields as it will give him more experience.
The big advantage, at a price, of training at Prestwick, or any full ATC airport is that you can go to another one without being nervous. I know some people avoid "Edinburgh West" BECAUSE they have ATC rather than using that as a reason to talk to them. Another advantage is the length of the main, big looooong downwind legs, loads of time for checks and height adjustments.
The downside is that at Cumbernauld or Perth, you can almost always, startup and go, and when you rejoin and land, you park right away. Holding at Prestwick can be expensive and makes the paying for the landing fees seem all the more unfair.
There will be days when you arrive and don't fly, but as a student, very few of those trips will be wasted. Sit in the aircraft and run through drills, or just concentrate on looking at the view from the driving seat when on the ground. It helps you know where you are when landing. Practice operating the Trim. Flaps, Carb Heat, Radio and Transponder (with power off) and you will find it easier to do when you are in the air. Doing this stuff is free, and it should reduce the time that you need to pay for.
Ask instructors (and students) if you can sit in on their briefs and debriefs, there will be learning points for you in the work that others do , whether they get it right or wrong.
Listen to ATC on a scanner (don't buy one without a full numeric keypad) and become familiar with the chatter so that you can pick it up easier in the aircraft.
There is an emotional cycle of change during your training, and at times you will find yourself on top of the world and at other times you will be in the well of despair. No matter how you feel after a lesson, bear in mind that the phrase, "This too will pass" is very relevant.
If you want to do it cheaply, do it often, flying is a perishable skill, especially when you are a novice.
I took a video camera with me and recorded my instructor doing a "perfect" circuit. I watched it for hours that night and went solo on my next day at the airfield.
My final tip for today is this: Write up your logbook when you get into the clubhouse. Don't leave it for when you get home. But, get a diary, (a big A4 page a day jobby) and when you do get home, write after each day's flying, what you did, and more importantly, how you feel about it.
A friend of mine is doing his circuit training at Perth as there are no landing fees, so that saves quite a bit of money compared to Cumbernauld or Prestwick. Once he has done his solo he'll go back to Cumbernauld for more lessons, but expects to split his training hours between both airfields as it will give him more experience.
The big advantage, at a price, of training at Prestwick, or any full ATC airport is that you can go to another one without being nervous. I know some people avoid "Edinburgh West" BECAUSE they have ATC rather than using that as a reason to talk to them. Another advantage is the length of the main, big looooong downwind legs, loads of time for checks and height adjustments.
The downside is that at Cumbernauld or Perth, you can almost always, startup and go, and when you rejoin and land, you park right away. Holding at Prestwick can be expensive and makes the paying for the landing fees seem all the more unfair.
There will be days when you arrive and don't fly, but as a student, very few of those trips will be wasted. Sit in the aircraft and run through drills, or just concentrate on looking at the view from the driving seat when on the ground. It helps you know where you are when landing. Practice operating the Trim. Flaps, Carb Heat, Radio and Transponder (with power off) and you will find it easier to do when you are in the air. Doing this stuff is free, and it should reduce the time that you need to pay for.
Ask instructors (and students) if you can sit in on their briefs and debriefs, there will be learning points for you in the work that others do , whether they get it right or wrong.
Listen to ATC on a scanner (don't buy one without a full numeric keypad) and become familiar with the chatter so that you can pick it up easier in the aircraft.
There is an emotional cycle of change during your training, and at times you will find yourself on top of the world and at other times you will be in the well of despair. No matter how you feel after a lesson, bear in mind that the phrase, "This too will pass" is very relevant.
If you want to do it cheaply, do it often, flying is a perishable skill, especially when you are a novice.
I took a video camera with me and recorded my instructor doing a "perfect" circuit. I watched it for hours that night and went solo on my next day at the airfield.
My final tip for today is this: Write up your logbook when you get into the clubhouse. Don't leave it for when you get home. But, get a diary, (a big A4 page a day jobby) and when you do get home, write after each day's flying, what you did, and more importantly, how you feel about it.
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airpolice
Thanks airpolice for the advice its appreciated and i will take some time to mull it over and soak it in.
The landing fees and holding may be a bit of a pain thats why Cumbernauld seemed a good option as surely the waiting and fees would be less than say Prestwick?
Perth is a bit too far for me to travel i think
The best option may be Prestwick flight school if they can offer a good discount for landing fees and or block booking's don't know how busy they are or if they are hungry for business but i will find out.
Are the flight schools busy is business booming?? who knows maybe some haggling would help
And i am going to try and do as much as possible, in the least amount of time, as it will save me money, as less learned skills will need to be gone over ,and i will spend more time at the garage making money
The landing fees and holding may be a bit of a pain thats why Cumbernauld seemed a good option as surely the waiting and fees would be less than say Prestwick?
Perth is a bit too far for me to travel i think
The best option may be Prestwick flight school if they can offer a good discount for landing fees and or block booking's don't know how busy they are or if they are hungry for business but i will find out.
Are the flight schools busy is business booming?? who knows maybe some haggling would help
And i am going to try and do as much as possible, in the least amount of time, as it will save me money, as less learned skills will need to be gone over ,and i will spend more time at the garage making money
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"NMIF" said Milo.
if they can offer a good discount for landing fees and or block booking's don't know how busy they are or if they are hungry for business but i will find out.
Here are the five top tips for someone in your frame of mind.
1 Do not pay up front!
2 Avoid, at all costs, any attempt to entice you to pay up front!
3 Resist the temptation of any discount offered for paying up front!
4 Bear in mind that if you pay up front, and the company behind the school should go bust, the school, the planes and instructors may still be there next week, but your money is in the wind!
5 Read through loads of pprune pages for horror stories about folk who paid up front, the Inverness story is a really good read.
p.s. Don't pay up front.
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I wonder what the differences are between the East coast and West coast (not in the way rappers view it) but in regards to actual VFR flying/training days available. When picking a school, consideration of driving a little further to an east (or central) coast location may offer more vfr weather flying. It’s pretty apparent that it pisses of rain lot more on the West coast (not that the smarmy, big city, Weegie bastards don’t deserve it) as compared to East and if a trainee was wanting to do an accelerated training schedule this would have to be a consideration.
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Very true Piperboy, I lost count of the times I was phoned from Leuchars to be told I should attend when even the ****ehawks in Bathgate were walking to work.
After crossing the Forth and seeing brighter skies, I eventually got used to leaving the rain behind by the time I was turning off the motorway after Balado and then having a few hours flying between Montrose, Perth & Pittenweem, which had seemed very unlikely over breakfast.
After crossing the Forth and seeing brighter skies, I eventually got used to leaving the rain behind by the time I was turning off the motorway after Balado and then having a few hours flying between Montrose, Perth & Pittenweem, which had seemed very unlikely over breakfast.
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Yr right Piperboy, I tried it for a few times driving to Prestwick taking precicely 100 minutes one way & watching the weather deteriorate on the way, severely off pissing. After driving for 100 miles I felt, & prob looked, more like a cheeseburger than an hours flying.
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There was an interesting post on another thread where it was suggested that most of the rural (non instrument equipped) West coast Scottish airstrips were laid out in a more N/S heading as opposed to the East coast which are predominately in a W/E direction. The reason being that although some have geographic constraints the main consideration is that even though the majority of days the winds are westerly the most VFR flying days are when the wind is from the S S/W.
Any thoughts as to the accuracy of this theory?
Any thoughts as to the accuracy of this theory?
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pay up front
so paying up fronts bad, OK will bear that in mind maybe blocks of five?
I did think of a trip to where the weather is more suitable
maybe blocks of five?I did think of a trip to where the weather is more suitable
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The other thing is, i am my own boss, so when theres a good day i can take time off and be at prestwick in under 15 Min's, when i was flying from strathaven it was at least an hour there and then back, plus the prep time, food etc, so 5 hours or half a day off work and only 1 hours flying time.
so def going to have a look at the flight school first, they seem more of a 9 to 5 outfit and this may suit me better
When i went to strathaven, the money i spent on travel and work not done whilst away waiting for weather could have helped pay for my PPL(A) now that i think about it, it's prob, my cheapest option
so def going to have a look at the flight school first, they seem more of a 9 to 5 outfit and this may suit me better
When i went to strathaven, the money i spent on travel and work not done whilst away waiting for weather could have helped pay for my PPL(A) now that i think about it, it's prob, my cheapest option
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Escosse sorry to hijack your thread,
If I may offer a tip regarding training that has worked for me and is extremely cost effective. I would like to give a caveat prior to imparting with my advice, I am not a book worm nor what is considered fully educated, nor could I ever be mistaken as an expert on mechanics or science, in fact throughout my career I have been described as being a “as thick as **** in the neck of a bottle” ,” a lump of wid” and as “dumb as a post” however there is one area that has probably trained me more than any other about flying (as much as actually flying the plane and perhaps even more) and this is the plethora of quality, easy to read and graphically simple books available. I am not taking about the ones that are given out or suggested as part of the PPl curriculum ( the “how to pass your PPL ones” or the ones about some old pilot bugger reliving his glory days but ones that really giving meaning to what your flight instructor is teaching you.
The following are some examples:
The Compleat Taildragger (although you may never fly a TD the theories are good to know)
Emergency Maneuver Training by Rich Stowell
Stick and Rudder ( The must know basics)
Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge by the FAA ( This one is essential reading and it costs a tenner)
The US Dept. of Transportation/ FAA publish many excellent books that cover all aspects of GA from flying, weather, mechanical and systems etc with easy to read and understand explanations with pictures included, 99% of the stuff in their books is applicable regardless of which country you are located in. And all four books above can be purchased for less than a half hour in a 152 with infinitely more training value
I find that reading those books makes me a far better pilot and the icing on the cake is the hobbs meter is not running while you are really learning.
If I may offer a tip regarding training that has worked for me and is extremely cost effective. I would like to give a caveat prior to imparting with my advice, I am not a book worm nor what is considered fully educated, nor could I ever be mistaken as an expert on mechanics or science, in fact throughout my career I have been described as being a “as thick as **** in the neck of a bottle” ,” a lump of wid” and as “dumb as a post” however there is one area that has probably trained me more than any other about flying (as much as actually flying the plane and perhaps even more) and this is the plethora of quality, easy to read and graphically simple books available. I am not taking about the ones that are given out or suggested as part of the PPl curriculum ( the “how to pass your PPL ones” or the ones about some old pilot bugger reliving his glory days but ones that really giving meaning to what your flight instructor is teaching you.
The following are some examples:
The Compleat Taildragger (although you may never fly a TD the theories are good to know)
Emergency Maneuver Training by Rich Stowell
Stick and Rudder ( The must know basics)
Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge by the FAA ( This one is essential reading and it costs a tenner)
The US Dept. of Transportation/ FAA publish many excellent books that cover all aspects of GA from flying, weather, mechanical and systems etc with easy to read and understand explanations with pictures included, 99% of the stuff in their books is applicable regardless of which country you are located in. And all four books above can be purchased for less than a half hour in a 152 with infinitely more training value
I find that reading those books makes me a far better pilot and the icing on the cake is the hobbs meter is not running while you are really learning.
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Good advice there Piperboy, And as for education, whoever wrote "The Compleat Taildragger" couldn't spell "Complete" properly, according to the English dictionary. So Mad Jock & the rest of youse thicko's is ok innit?
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Thanks
Thanks piperboy, i will look in to those books for sure,
Ive been looking at costs also, at prestwick v others and think it might well be worth traveling further afield. Based on last years prices, on the flying club web site, with 50 hours flying and all other medical/paperwork/books etc
including only 1 landing fee per lesson(no holding fee's are included in this) its coming in at 12K. There are some company's offering full packages based on 45 hour's, for around 7k, some of which you don't need to pay up front. also 5 hours extra may only cost under a £1000
I understand that better training, can save your life and is invaluable, but 4-5k saving may be worth a look, and also the extra money could be spent on some advanced technique's with another instructor which would be much more fun.
Ive been looking at costs also, at prestwick v others and think it might well be worth traveling further afield. Based on last years prices, on the flying club web site, with 50 hours flying and all other medical/paperwork/books etc
including only 1 landing fee per lesson(no holding fee's are included in this) its coming in at 12K. There are some company's offering full packages based on 45 hour's, for around 7k, some of which you don't need to pay up front. also 5 hours extra may only cost under a £1000
I understand that better training, can save your life and is invaluable, but 4-5k saving may be worth a look, and also the extra money could be spent on some advanced technique's with another instructor which would be much more fun.
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Has someone got their sums seriously wrong???
They cannot be that far adrift from others in the market.
Also holding fees???? What are they?
They cannot be that far adrift from others in the market.
Also holding fees???? What are they?
Last edited by maxred; 15th Jan 2013 at 19:36.
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Well I popped over to PiK Flying Club website. Lot of info, however, relevant bits
45 hours JAA PPL, 200.25 per hour, including instructor, and landing. I calculate that at 9011.25. Books can be bought on e bay, plus the club had a number in their archive from memory.
They state on their site, add about 250.00 for initial costs. Sounds fair.
Beware of people who promise a great deal, it generally never is.
Look, flying, in relative terms is expensive. No getting away from it. If you start by trying to cut corners, looking for cheaper avenues, well, you may never get there. Previous advice, you asked for it, was to consider ALL variations and options. There is an awful lot more than cost to consider.
45 hours JAA PPL, 200.25 per hour, including instructor, and landing. I calculate that at 9011.25. Books can be bought on e bay, plus the club had a number in their archive from memory.
They state on their site, add about 250.00 for initial costs. Sounds fair.
Beware of people who promise a great deal, it generally never is.
Look, flying, in relative terms is expensive. No getting away from it. If you start by trying to cut corners, looking for cheaper avenues, well, you may never get there. Previous advice, you asked for it, was to consider ALL variations and options. There is an awful lot more than cost to consider.