ILS APP in VMC
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Joined: Dec 2012
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From: Scotland
ILS APP in VMC
Hello,
Just got a question about an ILS APP which I hope someone can answer:
I am a PPL and will be doing a radar vectored app into Edinburgh in the PA-28 next week (subject to traffic).
During my training I done some ILS procedures with my instructor and I am wondering if I would be able to fly the ILS GS LOC into Edinburgh but not using the foggles and in vis which meets VMC conditions? Am I allowed to do this on a PPL licence as I do not have an IMC nor IR? I have heard some PPL's say they have done this however I'm not sure if this is allowed or now.
If it is allowed, would I request vectoring for an ILS approach to remain in VMC? (although doesn't this slightly contradict each other?)
Any advice appreciated.
Just got a question about an ILS APP which I hope someone can answer:
I am a PPL and will be doing a radar vectored app into Edinburgh in the PA-28 next week (subject to traffic).
During my training I done some ILS procedures with my instructor and I am wondering if I would be able to fly the ILS GS LOC into Edinburgh but not using the foggles and in vis which meets VMC conditions? Am I allowed to do this on a PPL licence as I do not have an IMC nor IR? I have heard some PPL's say they have done this however I'm not sure if this is allowed or now.
If it is allowed, would I request vectoring for an ILS approach to remain in VMC? (although doesn't this slightly contradict each other?)
Any advice appreciated.
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Oxford
No doubt someone with more encyclopaedic knowledge will appear but my understanding is yes but...
a. not IFR if it's in class D (can't remember if EDI is) - you must be VFR
b. if you are VFR you must carry an observer in the other seat (doesn't have to be a pilot - the infamous 'granny' rule i.e. it could be your granny. They have to shout if they see any aircraft conflicting!)
You can fly it IFR outside CAS (as in the UK you don't require an IR to fly IFR), or VFR in or out of CAS but with an observer.
Tim
a. not IFR if it's in class D (can't remember if EDI is) - you must be VFR
b. if you are VFR you must carry an observer in the other seat (doesn't have to be a pilot - the infamous 'granny' rule i.e. it could be your granny. They have to shout if they see any aircraft conflicting!)
You can fly it IFR outside CAS (as in the UK you don't require an IR to fly IFR), or VFR in or out of CAS but with an observer.
Tim
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From: Amsterdam
N1P, I wonder why you would want to.
Flying the full ILS from 2000'/6nm down to the runway will take way more time than flying a visual circuit. Furthermore, since a lot of the airfields you will visit will have a relatively high proportion of VFR circuit traffic compared to IFR/ILS traffic, it will be easier for ATC to slot you in with the rest of the circuit traffic, compared to slotting you in on the ILS. And the last thing is that you need to remain VMC. So you have to fly around any clouds, which really is not an option on an ILS. So it's not exactly a practical approach method if you're VFR, unless there are no clouds whatsoever below 2500' and the traffic density at the field is such that you can be slotted into it via the ILS anyway. And in those circumstances, a "visual direct final" is probably easier anyway.
As far as training is concerned, yes, you can always request a practice ILS approach, or any other precision or non-precision approach for that matter. If you use the word "practice" ATC knows exactly what is intended. As you will still be VFR, it's up to you to remain VMC, and to keep a sharp lookout for other traffic as you will not be entitled to the same service as IFR traffic. So if you're going to be heads down during the approach, it's a very good idea to take a competent observer with you.
I fly from Rotterdam, a controlled field with a traffic intensity that I guess is about equal to Edinburgh. VFR traffic at our field usually flies one of the three visual approaches, but you can request essentially anything as long as you are willing to work with ATC and display an understanding of what will and will not be possible. When the runway in use is convenient, the weather is good, there is no IFR traffic approaching and I feel like it, I regularly request a "practice VOR/DME" or another IFR approach. I also regularly request alternate routings through the CTR, but I do make sure that my requests don't interfere with other activities in the CTR. So I make sure that I'm clear of the ILS areas that are in use, make sure I'm clear of the parachuting area, make sure that I'm not crossing a formal visual approach route at the designated altitude for that approach, and so forth.
So as far as practical flying is concerned, use a standard visual arrival or departure if they are anywhere near convenient. If not, request an alternate routing through the CTR but be prepared to work with ATC if for some reason your request is inconvenient or impossible. And if you want to practice a precision or non-precision approach make sure you use the word "practice" in your request, so ATC knows what the intention is.
BTW For formal IR training, with multiple approaches to the same runway, a lot of airfields require formal coordination, or even slots, arranged well before you get airborne. But in my experience a single practice request can usually be accommodated without formal approval in advance.
Flying the full ILS from 2000'/6nm down to the runway will take way more time than flying a visual circuit. Furthermore, since a lot of the airfields you will visit will have a relatively high proportion of VFR circuit traffic compared to IFR/ILS traffic, it will be easier for ATC to slot you in with the rest of the circuit traffic, compared to slotting you in on the ILS. And the last thing is that you need to remain VMC. So you have to fly around any clouds, which really is not an option on an ILS. So it's not exactly a practical approach method if you're VFR, unless there are no clouds whatsoever below 2500' and the traffic density at the field is such that you can be slotted into it via the ILS anyway. And in those circumstances, a "visual direct final" is probably easier anyway.
As far as training is concerned, yes, you can always request a practice ILS approach, or any other precision or non-precision approach for that matter. If you use the word "practice" ATC knows exactly what is intended. As you will still be VFR, it's up to you to remain VMC, and to keep a sharp lookout for other traffic as you will not be entitled to the same service as IFR traffic. So if you're going to be heads down during the approach, it's a very good idea to take a competent observer with you.
I fly from Rotterdam, a controlled field with a traffic intensity that I guess is about equal to Edinburgh. VFR traffic at our field usually flies one of the three visual approaches, but you can request essentially anything as long as you are willing to work with ATC and display an understanding of what will and will not be possible. When the runway in use is convenient, the weather is good, there is no IFR traffic approaching and I feel like it, I regularly request a "practice VOR/DME" or another IFR approach. I also regularly request alternate routings through the CTR, but I do make sure that my requests don't interfere with other activities in the CTR. So I make sure that I'm clear of the ILS areas that are in use, make sure I'm clear of the parachuting area, make sure that I'm not crossing a formal visual approach route at the designated altitude for that approach, and so forth.
So as far as practical flying is concerned, use a standard visual arrival or departure if they are anywhere near convenient. If not, request an alternate routing through the CTR but be prepared to work with ATC if for some reason your request is inconvenient or impossible. And if you want to practice a precision or non-precision approach make sure you use the word "practice" in your request, so ATC knows what the intention is.
BTW For formal IR training, with multiple approaches to the same runway, a lot of airfields require formal coordination, or even slots, arranged well before you get airborne. But in my experience a single practice request can usually be accommodated without formal approval in advance.
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: UK
A Quetsion:
If you request, are offered and accept an ILS Approach does that not imply IFR?
(Not now allowed unless IR or IR(R)/IMC)
Some General Observations:
Requesting an ILS (even a practice) suggests (certainly to ATC) either competence on the part of the pilot to fly
such an approach, or that there is someone else on board (Instrutor) to ensure the aircraft doesn't deviate too
much from published profile (and that correct ATC liaison is followed).
ILS is badly named. It is an Instrument Approach leading to a Visual landing.
ILS are usually based on a 3deg Glidepath so still two miles from Threshold the
aircraft will be at 600' - which is a lot lower than most PPLs will be used to.
Even if allowed I don't think someone who has "done some ILS procedures with my instructor" should request one on their own.
I would suggest requesting a Visual Straight In Approach from 5 miles. Don't have to worry about getting the ILS specific radio calls
correct and can track the Localiser, whilst keeping a good lookout. Do not try and follow the Glidepath, but rather keep
a sensible height (not below 1,000') until the approach (Rwy) looks correct.
If you request, are offered and accept an ILS Approach does that not imply IFR?
(Not now allowed unless IR or IR(R)/IMC)
Some General Observations:
Requesting an ILS (even a practice) suggests (certainly to ATC) either competence on the part of the pilot to fly
such an approach, or that there is someone else on board (Instrutor) to ensure the aircraft doesn't deviate too
much from published profile (and that correct ATC liaison is followed).
ILS is badly named. It is an Instrument Approach leading to a Visual landing.
ILS are usually based on a 3deg Glidepath so still two miles from Threshold the
aircraft will be at 600' - which is a lot lower than most PPLs will be used to.
Even if allowed I don't think someone who has "done some ILS procedures with my instructor" should request one on their own.
I would suggest requesting a Visual Straight In Approach from 5 miles. Don't have to worry about getting the ILS specific radio calls
correct and can track the Localiser, whilst keeping a good lookout. Do not try and follow the Glidepath, but rather keep
a sensible height (not below 1,000') until the approach (Rwy) looks correct.
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From: fort sheridan, il
You may not wear foggles without a real live properly certified safety pilot (ppl, current, sel)
YOU might request vectors to intercept and track the localizer but make it CLEAR YOU ARE NOT INSTRUMENT RATED.
EVEN requesting a PRACTICE approach is something you should not do as it implies that you know what you are doing.ATC must know exactly your capabilities or else they might treat you like a properly certified instrument rated and equipped pilot/plane.
you might request a vector to s straight in approach to the ils equipped runway and advise them you have the airport in sight and you plan to track the localizer/gs in VFR/vmc conditions
if you have never been instructed in flying an ILS, I think you shouldn't even try it.
and contrary to what has been writen, you can make a fully automatic, zero visibility landing using a properly certified ILS and plane. Some planes will even stop on the runway centerline. however, in your type of plane, the last 200 feet are pretty much visual
I did write an article about transitioning to visual from DH that might prove interesting...just google: TRANSITIONIN TO VISUAL and you might find it.
YOU might request vectors to intercept and track the localizer but make it CLEAR YOU ARE NOT INSTRUMENT RATED.
EVEN requesting a PRACTICE approach is something you should not do as it implies that you know what you are doing.ATC must know exactly your capabilities or else they might treat you like a properly certified instrument rated and equipped pilot/plane.
you might request a vector to s straight in approach to the ils equipped runway and advise them you have the airport in sight and you plan to track the localizer/gs in VFR/vmc conditions
if you have never been instructed in flying an ILS, I think you shouldn't even try it.
and contrary to what has been writen, you can make a fully automatic, zero visibility landing using a properly certified ILS and plane. Some planes will even stop on the runway centerline. however, in your type of plane, the last 200 feet are pretty much visual
I did write an article about transitioning to visual from DH that might prove interesting...just google: TRANSITIONIN TO VISUAL and you might find it.
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From: Delsey
YOU might request vectors to intercept and track the localizer but make it CLEAR YOU ARE NOT INSTRUMENT RATED.
Before you go asking for radar vectors for an ILS (practice or not), you should find out what the navigation charges are. The last time I went in to Edinburghwas over 15 years ago in a Cessna 310. They charged me over 250 GBP back then for landing and one nights parking. A month later I received a bill for navigation charges in addition to the above! Self positioning onto the ILS (if permissible) may be cheaper.
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From: South-East, United Kingdom
My view is that if you want to practise an ILS or any other kind of approach anywhere, use a flight sim. There are a number of decent aircraft you can use or download if you want to make it more realistic. I have an IMCr and use FSX a lot to practise, or try approaches at different airports. Its much cheaper too ;-) You can download an AIP approach plate, and practise as much as you like without having to try and explain to ATC what you want to do and why.
If you want to do it for real (and why not - its exciting and challenging), then sign up for IMC lessons or do the flight with an instructor. That will give the flight a bit more legitimacy, and the instructor can guide you if the controller asks you to do something in flight you havent done before, or says something on the radio you havent heard before. He can also advise on the correct procedure for adjusting and maintaning height and course.
Otherwise as Level Attitude says, do a long straight in approach and keep a look out and maintain whatever altidude (above or on the glideslops) that you think is safe. There is something somewhere on PPrune about being not allowed to practise approaches without a safety pilot. I cant remember what conclusion was reached or if its different now, but unless you know for sure, your in potentially murky waters.
If you want to do it for real (and why not - its exciting and challenging), then sign up for IMC lessons or do the flight with an instructor. That will give the flight a bit more legitimacy, and the instructor can guide you if the controller asks you to do something in flight you havent done before, or says something on the radio you havent heard before. He can also advise on the correct procedure for adjusting and maintaning height and course.
Otherwise as Level Attitude says, do a long straight in approach and keep a look out and maintain whatever altidude (above or on the glideslops) that you think is safe. There is something somewhere on PPrune about being not allowed to practise approaches without a safety pilot. I cant remember what conclusion was reached or if its different now, but unless you know for sure, your in potentially murky waters.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
For UK: From CAP393 The Air Navigation Order:
CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations
Section 2 Page 14
Simulated instrument flight
23 (1) An aircraft shall not be flown in simulated instrument flight conditions unless the conditions in paragraph (2) are met.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are as follows:
(a) the aircraft is fitted with dual controls which are functioning properly;
(b) an additional pilot (in this rule called a 'safety pilot') is carried in a second control seat of the aircraft for the purpose of providing assistance to the pilot flying the aircraft; and
(c) if the safety pilot's field of vision is not adequate, both forwards and to each side of the aircraft, a third person, who is a competent observer, occupies a position in the aircraft from which his field of vision makes good the deficiencies in that of the safety pilot, and from which he can readily communicate with the safety pilot.
Practice instrument approaches
24 (1) An aircraft shall not carry out an instrument approach practice within the United Kingdom if it is flying in Visual Meteorological Conditions unless the conditions in paragraph (2) are met.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are as follows:
(a) the appropriate air traffic control unit has previously been informed that the flight is to be made for the purpose of instrument approach practice; and (b) if the flight is not being carried out in simulated instrument flight conditions, a competent observer is carried in such a position in the aircraft that he has an adequate field of vision and can readily communicate with the pilot flying the aircraft.
CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations
Section 2 Page 14
Simulated instrument flight
23 (1) An aircraft shall not be flown in simulated instrument flight conditions unless the conditions in paragraph (2) are met.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are as follows:
(a) the aircraft is fitted with dual controls which are functioning properly;
(b) an additional pilot (in this rule called a 'safety pilot') is carried in a second control seat of the aircraft for the purpose of providing assistance to the pilot flying the aircraft; and
(c) if the safety pilot's field of vision is not adequate, both forwards and to each side of the aircraft, a third person, who is a competent observer, occupies a position in the aircraft from which his field of vision makes good the deficiencies in that of the safety pilot, and from which he can readily communicate with the safety pilot.
Practice instrument approaches
24 (1) An aircraft shall not carry out an instrument approach practice within the United Kingdom if it is flying in Visual Meteorological Conditions unless the conditions in paragraph (2) are met.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are as follows:
(a) the appropriate air traffic control unit has previously been informed that the flight is to be made for the purpose of instrument approach practice; and (b) if the flight is not being carried out in simulated instrument flight conditions, a competent observer is carried in such a position in the aircraft that he has an adequate field of vision and can readily communicate with the pilot flying the aircraft.
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From: Wales
Hi, I remember asking Hawarden if I could fly a three mile final, and almost got it right at 3.1 miles... Tower informed me that I was almost in Liverpool airspace, and suggested I turn sharper to intercept. The VOR / GS looked Ok as did the PAPIs all the way down, so not much to do other than just sit there looking at my passenger taking some more photos.
As long as it looks Ok out of the window, the crossed needles will stay in the middle. You can't always say the same for the other way around.
As long as it looks Ok out of the window, the crossed needles will stay in the middle. You can't always say the same for the other way around.
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From: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
No 1 Yes you can.
Phone Edinburgh first as they will not be able to accept you at busy times. Edinburgh prefer you to file a VFR flight plan for zone entry. Your best chance to get permission is to get your flight school to make the booking.
Glasgow seem to be better able to offer you the service ad hoc. The last time I did it there was no charge.
D.O.
Phone Edinburgh first as they will not be able to accept you at busy times. Edinburgh prefer you to file a VFR flight plan for zone entry. Your best chance to get permission is to get your flight school to make the booking.
Glasgow seem to be better able to offer you the service ad hoc. The last time I did it there was no charge.
D.O.
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Near Stuttgart, Germany
Reading threads like this cheers me up a lot! Because it reminds me, that contrary to our reputation, we germans are really easy-going, fun loving people 
All we have to do is ask "is there a chance for a simulated ILS approach for training purposes?" and if traffic permits, we will be vectored to a convenient position from where to fly the approach. No charges, no nothing, no question asked if you are insrtrument rated or anything, because you are flying VFR and will never actually get a clearance to fly the ILS. The controller will say something like "cleared for an 8 mile final runway XY, maintain VMC". He dosen't care what horizontal and vertical trajectory you follow as long as you have the required visual references.
The same with an SRE or PAR (at military or civil/military fields). Just ask politely, and if traffic permits, you will get it. That's fun for the controller as well, a welcome distraction on a boring afternoon. Ask for an SRE with no gyro! Having done a couple of those may save your life one day, who knows. With or without instrument rating makes no difference.
All we have to do is ask "is there a chance for a simulated ILS approach for training purposes?" and if traffic permits, we will be vectored to a convenient position from where to fly the approach. No charges, no nothing, no question asked if you are insrtrument rated or anything, because you are flying VFR and will never actually get a clearance to fly the ILS. The controller will say something like "cleared for an 8 mile final runway XY, maintain VMC". He dosen't care what horizontal and vertical trajectory you follow as long as you have the required visual references.
The same with an SRE or PAR (at military or civil/military fields). Just ask politely, and if traffic permits, you will get it. That's fun for the controller as well, a welcome distraction on a boring afternoon. Ask for an SRE with no gyro! Having done a couple of those may save your life one day, who knows. With or without instrument rating makes no difference.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: GA, USA
Come, come,come over to the Dark Side where you can fly practice appraoches to your hearts content...yes...even ILS approaches.....for FREE......I feel the force getting stronger inside of you....come to Land of the Free
Reading all of the above just makes me shake my head and mumble to myself.
What has aviation in Europe come to........
One measly practice ILS (yes, it is still called that way) in a Pa28 and its easier to get an audition with the pope.......
I can take an airplane, without a flightplan (
) hop over to the airport next door (85 total in FL ) and fly practice ILS approaches till I run out of gas without paying anything but fuel tax.
Edinburgh in the PA-28 next week (subject to traffic).
your request is inconvenient or impossible.
ILS is badly named. It is an Instrument Approach leading to a Visual landing.
My view is that if you want to practise an ILS or any other kind of approach anywhere, use a flight sim.
For UK: From CAP393 The Air Navigation Order:
I could fly a three mile final, and almost got it right at 3.1 miles
The last time I did it there was no charge
What has aviation in Europe come to........
One measly practice ILS (yes, it is still called that way) in a Pa28 and its easier to get an audition with the pope.......
I can take an airplane, without a flightplan (
) hop over to the airport next door (85 total in FL ) and fly practice ILS approaches till I run out of gas without paying anything but fuel tax.
Last edited by B2N2; 14th December 2012 at 12:58.
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Cambridge, England, EU
The USA is different. They've got more land than they know what to do with.
In Europe we've had pretty well no spare land for at least the last thousand years - it's all full of people and stuff, no room for inessential airfields with spare time on their ILSs (the land is worth more for other uses), and the airspace is more or less full too.
In Europe we've had pretty well no spare land for at least the last thousand years - it's all full of people and stuff, no room for inessential airfields with spare time on their ILSs (the land is worth more for other uses), and the airspace is more or less full too.
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From: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
In the good old days
Edinburgh was a training centre for NATS. Pilots were often asked if they could accept an SRA or radar vectors for controller training. There was three runways, sometimes all being used at once. Great fun!
Then some bright spark figured out more money could be made by parking cars on runways instead of letting aircraft use them. Introduce computerised flight strips and pay off assistants. Aah! Privatisation.
Edited to add; Edinburgh 114000 movements per annum. 1 runway 1 arr/dep frequency.
Orlando 303000 " " " 4 runways 5 arr/dep frequencies
Jeez up to a couple of years ago aircraft had to backtrack RWY 06/24 at Edinburgh!
D.O.
Edinburgh was a training centre for NATS. Pilots were often asked if they could accept an SRA or radar vectors for controller training. There was three runways, sometimes all being used at once. Great fun!Then some bright spark figured out more money could be made by parking cars on runways instead of letting aircraft use them. Introduce computerised flight strips and pay off assistants. Aah! Privatisation.
Edited to add; Edinburgh 114000 movements per annum. 1 runway 1 arr/dep frequency.
Orlando 303000 " " " 4 runways 5 arr/dep frequencies
Jeez up to a couple of years ago aircraft had to backtrack RWY 06/24 at Edinburgh!
D.O.
Last edited by dont overfil; 14th December 2012 at 15:32.
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The problem with these threads is that the postings are mostly negative.
I can do the same. Not 85 airports, and not free, but for £20 I can fly an ILS at say Lydd almost anytime.
There there is Manston, Southampton, Bournemouth, Southend.
For practice approaches, I never land, because that just wastes time.
What one does have to do is phone the airport first, to book a "slot". Otherwise you can find somebody (usually a school) has booked it and you have to fly around to waste time. And one also needs to phone ahead with one's credit card details for the billing, if not landing there.
And once, at Manston, some "instructor" said to me it is illegal to fly an IAP in VMC unless one has a safety pilot. Ergo, ipso facto, it is illegal to fly an ILS, single pilot, in anything better than OVC002. I bet he posts here too
What we do have a lot of in Europe is airports run by Mickey Mouse MBA types, who are not interested in aviation (they make an exception for a Gulfstream with Donald Trump in it, of course, salivating all over the tarmac while rolling out the red carpet) and run the airport as a job creation scheme. I don't know what can be done about that...
I can take an airplane, without a flightplan (
) hop over to the airport next door (85 total in FL ) and fly practice ILS approaches till I run out of gas without paying anything but fuel tax.
) hop over to the airport next door (85 total in FL ) and fly practice ILS approaches till I run out of gas without paying anything but fuel tax.
There there is Manston, Southampton, Bournemouth, Southend.
For practice approaches, I never land, because that just wastes time.
What one does have to do is phone the airport first, to book a "slot". Otherwise you can find somebody (usually a school) has booked it and you have to fly around to waste time. And one also needs to phone ahead with one's credit card details for the billing, if not landing there.
And once, at Manston, some "instructor" said to me it is illegal to fly an IAP in VMC unless one has a safety pilot. Ergo, ipso facto, it is illegal to fly an ILS, single pilot, in anything better than OVC002. I bet he posts here too
What we do have a lot of in Europe is airports run by Mickey Mouse MBA types, who are not interested in aviation (they make an exception for a Gulfstream with Donald Trump in it, of course, salivating all over the tarmac while rolling out the red carpet) and run the airport as a job creation scheme. I don't know what can be done about that...
Last edited by peterh337; 14th December 2012 at 16:12.
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From: UK
And once, at Manston, some "instructor" said to me it is illegal to fly an IAP in VMC unless one has a safety pilot. Ergo, ipso facto, it is illegal to fly an ILS, single pilot, in anything better than OVC002. I bet he posts here too 
post of 13/12/2012 13:33
Simulated IMC conditions: At some point, eg the DA, the pilot needs to revert to visual flying. This could be a little low
for fumbling around removing screens (or even removing foggles) and acquiring outside visual references.
Hence need for dual controls and a second pilot.
Practise IAP in VMC: Pilot should be head down scanning the instruments. But "See and Avoid" still applies, especially
outside CAS eg Southend, Cranfield, Farnborough?
Hence need to carry a Competent Observer.
There have been several near misses reported (CHIRP) with the pilot(s) flying the Instrument Approach complaining
that the other aircraft either should not have been there (open FIR 6nm away from airfield!?!) or should have given way
to them (even though rules of the air gave the other aircraft right of way). CAAs response was to confirm that it was
the Instrument Approach traffic which had the duty to see and give way.
In real IMC then (hopefully) any other aircraft will be known about - even with a procedural approach to a non-radar ATC airfield.
Only case which could be worrying (but not illegal) is a real (ie non-practise) IAP in VMC oustide of CAS - I bet Easyjet
are already lobbying for Southend's CTZ to be expanded!
What is a practise ILS? I would suggest it is someone who has been trained and is reasonably competent excersing their
skill in order to remain current.
I do not think it is for someone who wants to give it a go because it is new/different.
Original Poster says he has PPL only and gives the impression (excuse me if I am wrong) of being fairly newly qualified - he
asks, on another thread, how to use the Primer on the PA28 he intends to take to Edinburgh.
Too many things could go wrong if he asks for an ILS Approach.
Including communication misunderstanding with ATC - not good in Controlled Airspace.
Hence my suggestion that he asks only for what he knows: Long straight in visual approach and on that approach he can
use/not use the Localizer/GS/DME as much or as little as he wishes - as long as most of the time his eyes
are outside the window.
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What is a practise ILS? I would suggest it is someone who has been trained and is reasonably competent excersing their
skill in order to remain current.
skill in order to remain current.