UK to Australia by PA28
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Regarding the need for an Instrument Rating...
While it's true that you could go VFR around the world, and some microlights have indeed made the trip UK-Oz (and some perished on the way), you'll find that getting an overflight clearance for a foreign registered aircraft on a VFR flight plan will become a major problem in several parts of the World, and require weeks/months of prior notice, or they might even reject you outright. And even if you file VFR, some controllers treats you as you were IFR anyway, so you have to figure out the approaches & airways just the same.
An IFR flight plan on the other hand is SOP for foreign aircraft. Not to mention that flying on an IFR flight plan, especially in unfamiliar territory, is a magnitude easier than doodling around VFR...
While it's true that you could go VFR around the world, and some microlights have indeed made the trip UK-Oz (and some perished on the way), you'll find that getting an overflight clearance for a foreign registered aircraft on a VFR flight plan will become a major problem in several parts of the World, and require weeks/months of prior notice, or they might even reject you outright. And even if you file VFR, some controllers treats you as you were IFR anyway, so you have to figure out the approaches & airways just the same.
An IFR flight plan on the other hand is SOP for foreign aircraft. Not to mention that flying on an IFR flight plan, especially in unfamiliar territory, is a magnitude easier than doodling around VFR...
There is no difference for overflight clearance VFR or IFR.
You can file and fly VFR (they might, will probably, ask that you fly along/below IFR routes - but where and how you fly post flight plan submission remains your choice
There is no need for HF.
Fly safe, Sam.
You can file and fly VFR (they might, will probably, ask that you fly along/below IFR routes - but where and how you fly post flight plan submission remains your choice
There is no need for HF.
Fly safe, Sam.
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Thanks Sam... I just spoke with White Rose Aviation (overflight clearance agent) and he said something very similar... so thanks for ratifying bothy h VFR and HF points!
The investigations continue...!
The investigations continue...!
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There is no difference for overflight clearance VFR or IFR.
Another IFR advantage is the ability to fly at night, which can sometimes be convenient. Few if any countries in Asia allow night VFR...
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Yes, that's my understanding too --- and 15x days notice to overfly Burma VFR too. Good job I'm in no hurry :-)
Good point re- night.
Good point re- night.
At the risk of being rude I think you would have to be totally daft to attempt this flight without having an IFR rating and considerable international flying experience.
If you really want to do this then I think you need to hire an experienced ferry pilot to go with you. His/her costs will probably be saved twice over by understanding how to make the various overflights work and by the fact that you will not have to pay to both get an IFR rating and accumulate enough actual IMC experience to be safe to actually use it for real.
Australia is a huge country which would require many hours to explore in a light aircraft. My 02 cents is put your airplane in a container and use the 20 to 30 K pounds you will save to explore Australia....
If you really want to do this then I think you need to hire an experienced ferry pilot to go with you. His/her costs will probably be saved twice over by understanding how to make the various overflights work and by the fact that you will not have to pay to both get an IFR rating and accumulate enough actual IMC experience to be safe to actually use it for real.
Australia is a huge country which would require many hours to explore in a light aircraft. My 02 cents is put your airplane in a container and use the 20 to 30 K pounds you will save to explore Australia....
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And if you listen to people like this, you'll never do anything fun at all
Last edited by Golf-Sierra; 27th Nov 2012 at 15:55.
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Flying down to Australia, on avgas, is going to be primarily a planning / logistics exercise.
The flying is pretty much the same everywhere you go - until you get to perhaps Mars where the pressure is about 1% so you get awesome TAS figures.
The flying is pretty much the same everywhere you go - until you get to perhaps Mars where the pressure is about 1% so you get awesome TAS figures.
I know of 3 pilots who flew from the UK to Australia in a C182, VFR only, no ferry tank or ferry pilot along with them. They had an amazing time. Do your research well, but don't listen to the nay-sayers!
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I think the major factor here is that you've got time on your side & you're doing it as a one-off. If you're cool with waiting out marginal wx for several days as you go along your route (you'll need to amend your clearances though), I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to do it. Just make sure to pick the optimal season weatherwise for the trip.
I'd drop ferry tank & HF. It just complicates the whole thing & technically speaking you can do the trip without it. You'd save a lot of hassle by avoiding "unfortunate" stopovers, but why rob yourself of the adventure of navigating through South Asian airports.
Honestly, go for it...
I'd drop ferry tank & HF. It just complicates the whole thing & technically speaking you can do the trip without it. You'd save a lot of hassle by avoiding "unfortunate" stopovers, but why rob yourself of the adventure of navigating through South Asian airports.
Honestly, go for it...
Last edited by Hodja; 28th Nov 2012 at 01:51.
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Hello Andy i did it in a Flexwing microlight down to Sydney and we had the Avgas brought in by the barrel to the airports that didn't have any, but Mike at white rose will be your man that will get you there trust me. 
go for it because if you don't you will be sat in the pub saying to your mates '' i should have done it, but too late late now, wont ever get the chance again wot a prat i am''...
Regards Dave
go for it because if you don't you will be sat in the pub saying to your mates '' i should have done it, but too late late now, wont ever get the chance again wot a prat i am''...
Regards Dave
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Hey there Mr Spokes! Well I wanted to get in touch with you - very impressed with your achievement mate... Mike at White Rose was telling me about your trip - and I have already said to a few people 'if that bloke in the Microlight did it, then I sure can..!"
Ping me when you have time via [email protected] or via Twitter @andyhardy if you wouldn't mind, would love to get your ne'er and have a brief chat!
Andy
Ping me when you have time via [email protected] or via Twitter @andyhardy if you wouldn't mind, would love to get your ne'er and have a brief chat!
Andy
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I flew a Saratoga from Portugal to Oz in July/Aug 2012 but swapped time (of which I had a limited amount) for money and hired a ferry pilot who was also an A&P to go with me.
I blogged the trip for friends and family, but you might find something useful in it. Pprune blocks a link to it so google "saratogaferry" to find the blog.
Mike Rose was great.
We bumbled along and made mistakes along the way and I am sure I could have done it cheaper than I did it. But I loved it and wouldn't trade the experience for anything.
Go for it.
I blogged the trip for friends and family, but you might find something useful in it. Pprune blocks a link to it so google "saratogaferry" to find the blog.
Mike Rose was great.
We bumbled along and made mistakes along the way and I am sure I could have done it cheaper than I did it. But I loved it and wouldn't trade the experience for anything.
Go for it.
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Re: Saratogaferry
Mate just found that blog Saratoga Ferry Europe to Australia so will take a look!
In the Saratoga you had a few things I not have by the looks of things, including a storm scope which I'll bet made it easier to get around the convective weather...!
(You can paste your blog link into a post by first creating a bity link like this... bit.ly/TxDOI5)
In the Saratoga you had a few things I not have by the looks of things, including a storm scope which I'll bet made it easier to get around the convective weather...!
(You can paste your blog link into a post by first creating a bity link like this... bit.ly/TxDOI5)
Last edited by Aussie Andy; 3rd Dec 2012 at 14:30.
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Thanks for the tip on bitly.
The stormscope was handy on a couple of the nastier weather days. But not as important as the autopilot. I don't know what kit your warrior has but I would say that a good AP will make your trip a lot more enjoyable.
On the VFR/IFR front, I was a sub-250 hour TT pilot when I went and would describe my VOR/NDB navaid skills as then somewhere between basic and non-existent. We had plenty of IMC weather to cope with and some of the controllers will expect you to provide radials and bearings so I was glad to have an IFR pilot with me. Even with him, the flight planning process usually required some time on the phone with the airservices people before departure. You're probably a lot more experienced than I was but, for me, part of the dollars I paid to have a more experienced IFR pilot with me amounted to training. I can say now that, whilst I think I could do it on my own, I wouldn't do it without an IF Rating - I think that some bad weather is just unavoidable.
Take plenty of folding USD and some in small denominations unless you want to be giving big size tips to refuellers in the middle east and North Asia. I took $15K and used it all on handlers and fuel etc.
Get a visa for India even if you don't plan on going through it. You need to arrange it with the consulate before you leave. We didn't originally plan on going through IN but, due lack of 100LL in Muscat, we had no choice. Although I had been warned to expect difficulties in some of the North Asian countries, we didn't struggle terribly and didn't have to "tip".
The turtlepac was good to have but not essential in my 386litre capacity saratoga. It gave me comfort all the way round that we landed with well over a couple of hours gas still in the tanks. I had heard that Saudi Avgas is *very* expensive so it was good to be able to fly over it. Talk to White Rose about it to see if it makes economic sense to buy and install the extra bag as opposed to stopping more often.
Jeppeson on the ipad was our map source. We broke into controlled space once by accident when we had fallen out of VHF range of centre and had not been handed over but otherwise had no trouble. We did install temporary HF but only used it on the Bali to Broome leg.
Get a customs agent to sort out quarantine and customs for when you arrive in Australia.
Feel free to PM me if you want any more info.
The stormscope was handy on a couple of the nastier weather days. But not as important as the autopilot. I don't know what kit your warrior has but I would say that a good AP will make your trip a lot more enjoyable.
On the VFR/IFR front, I was a sub-250 hour TT pilot when I went and would describe my VOR/NDB navaid skills as then somewhere between basic and non-existent. We had plenty of IMC weather to cope with and some of the controllers will expect you to provide radials and bearings so I was glad to have an IFR pilot with me. Even with him, the flight planning process usually required some time on the phone with the airservices people before departure. You're probably a lot more experienced than I was but, for me, part of the dollars I paid to have a more experienced IFR pilot with me amounted to training. I can say now that, whilst I think I could do it on my own, I wouldn't do it without an IF Rating - I think that some bad weather is just unavoidable.
Take plenty of folding USD and some in small denominations unless you want to be giving big size tips to refuellers in the middle east and North Asia. I took $15K and used it all on handlers and fuel etc.
Get a visa for India even if you don't plan on going through it. You need to arrange it with the consulate before you leave. We didn't originally plan on going through IN but, due lack of 100LL in Muscat, we had no choice. Although I had been warned to expect difficulties in some of the North Asian countries, we didn't struggle terribly and didn't have to "tip".
The turtlepac was good to have but not essential in my 386litre capacity saratoga. It gave me comfort all the way round that we landed with well over a couple of hours gas still in the tanks. I had heard that Saudi Avgas is *very* expensive so it was good to be able to fly over it. Talk to White Rose about it to see if it makes economic sense to buy and install the extra bag as opposed to stopping more often.
Jeppeson on the ipad was our map source. We broke into controlled space once by accident when we had fallen out of VHF range of centre and had not been handed over but otherwise had no trouble. We did install temporary HF but only used it on the Bali to Broome leg.
Get a customs agent to sort out quarantine and customs for when you arrive in Australia.
Feel free to PM me if you want any more info.