PPL with University - Should I do it?
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PPL with University - Should I do it?
I recently found out that as part of my degree in Aerospace Engineering, I have the option to choose whether to do a PPL course 'with' my University at supposedly discounted prices. The training will be done in America, but I'm still not decided on whether it is better to do it myself over here in the UK or do this with the University? There are quite a few students completing this course, but I'd still like to hear the views from the guys and girls on here. 
I'm not too sure whether the FAA Medical will be of much use over here in the UK, so any info on that would be highly appreciated too.
The price list is here:
6 Week Private Pilot License Course
Cessna 152 (Estimate 50 hours including ground school - $7500**
Cessna 172 (Estimate 50 hours including ground school - $10500**
Plus: FAA Medical/Knowledge Test/Checkride - $580
Accommodation for 6 weeks (minimum time) - $1176
Optional Catering (6 wks breakfast, packed lunch, evening meal) - $1470
Additional Training Courses/Endorsements after PPL:
Complex Endorsement (Estimate 4 hours flight/ground) - $750**
Tailwheel Endorsement (Estimate 7 hours flight/ground) - $1500**
Seaplane Rating (Estimate 10 hours flight/ground) - $1900**
Instrument Rating (Estimate 50 hours flight/ground) - $10500**
Commercial Pilot License (110 hours flight/ground) - $21500**
Flight Instructor License (20 hours flight/ground) - $4800**
Hour building (details/price on request)
**All prices are estimates and will change according to the speed of the students learning and the amount of flight time required.
Estimated extra costs:
Flight to America: £500
Visa: £300
Application fees: £250
What do you guys think? Is it worth it? (I will be hopefully do my CPL, IR etc after the PPL over here in the UK if that makes a difference..)
P.S - I am still at the point of waiting to hear from the CAA regarding my vision for a Class 1 medical, so I am not particularly in a rush to get training at all. In addition, I need to finish my degree first (as a back up plan). But if this training in the States is worth it, I will have to apply ASAP.
I'm not too sure whether the FAA Medical will be of much use over here in the UK, so any info on that would be highly appreciated too.
The price list is here:
6 Week Private Pilot License Course
Cessna 152 (Estimate 50 hours including ground school - $7500**
Cessna 172 (Estimate 50 hours including ground school - $10500**
Plus: FAA Medical/Knowledge Test/Checkride - $580
Accommodation for 6 weeks (minimum time) - $1176
Optional Catering (6 wks breakfast, packed lunch, evening meal) - $1470
Additional Training Courses/Endorsements after PPL:
Complex Endorsement (Estimate 4 hours flight/ground) - $750**
Tailwheel Endorsement (Estimate 7 hours flight/ground) - $1500**
Seaplane Rating (Estimate 10 hours flight/ground) - $1900**
Instrument Rating (Estimate 50 hours flight/ground) - $10500**
Commercial Pilot License (110 hours flight/ground) - $21500**
Flight Instructor License (20 hours flight/ground) - $4800**
Hour building (details/price on request)
**All prices are estimates and will change according to the speed of the students learning and the amount of flight time required.
Estimated extra costs:
Flight to America: £500
Visa: £300
Application fees: £250
What do you guys think? Is it worth it? (I will be hopefully do my CPL, IR etc after the PPL over here in the UK if that makes a difference..)
P.S - I am still at the point of waiting to hear from the CAA regarding my vision for a Class 1 medical, so I am not particularly in a rush to get training at all. In addition, I need to finish my degree first (as a back up plan). But if this training in the States is worth it, I will have to apply ASAP.
Last edited by Smiless; 31st Oct 2012 at 19:08.
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I would second the above, they don't seem any cheaper than you would pay researching your own PPL in America off your own back.
I take it from your class 1 comment you plan to go commercial, in which case a UK PPL may be a better foundation for doing CPL/IR in the UK. Many of the people I know who did American PPL struggled with these courses, and the ones who went on to get instructor ratings really struggled finding a job with an American PPL as their foundation.
I take it from your class 1 comment you plan to go commercial, in which case a UK PPL may be a better foundation for doing CPL/IR in the UK. Many of the people I know who did American PPL struggled with these courses, and the ones who went on to get instructor ratings really struggled finding a job with an American PPL as their foundation.
152 vs 172?
The $3,000 difference in price between the two a/c seems very steep. I haven't rented in the US in several months, but...
50 hours for $7500 is $150/hr for a 152 and $10500 is $210/hr for a 172. I was flying a PA-28-201R for $145/hr. A year ago I was flying a Beech Duchess for $200.
Terry
50 hours for $7500 is $150/hr for a 152 and $10500 is $210/hr for a 172. I was flying a PA-28-201R for $145/hr. A year ago I was flying a Beech Duchess for $200.
Terry
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My university course has a flying element, but the only requirement is that you complete 20 hours in the first year. Whether you continue after that is up to you. I went for this mainly because I knew that if I didn't I would never have been brave enough to pay £150+ for an hour's entertainment.
I'm so glad I did. If I'd done the straight aerospace engineering course I'd come out with the same qualification, but probably would never have started working towards a PPL. Now, I'm in the third year of my degree and (after taking a short break from flying due to funding/weather) am back flying and hopefully going to get my PPL before I graduate.
So....go for the PPL, whether you do it in America is up to you.....
.mic
I'm so glad I did. If I'd done the straight aerospace engineering course I'd come out with the same qualification, but probably would never have started working towards a PPL. Now, I'm in the third year of my degree and (after taking a short break from flying due to funding/weather) am back flying and hopefully going to get my PPL before I graduate.
So....go for the PPL, whether you do it in America is up to you.....
.mic
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Thanks for the replies everyone. 
I had a feeling that those prices were not exactly 'discounted', even though the University advertised them as "attractively discounted prices"... It's the reason why I said "supposedly discounted prices" in my first post.
I guess I will be giving the PPL course in America a miss then. I'd rather do it here in the UK just to be on the safe side if I ever do manage to go commercial.
One issue I came across today was that I also found out another problem which could affect me getting a Class 1 Medical.
I saw the thread regarding colour vision, which led me to try the Ishihara test online. It certainly brought some news to me... my eyes have a colour deficiency.
I never even knew I was partly colour blind. I've never even been affected by it, ever! I haven't even got past the eye-sight problem yet, and now I have another obstacle to get over somehow. Sometimes life really is that cruel...
I had a feeling that those prices were not exactly 'discounted', even though the University advertised them as "attractively discounted prices"... It's the reason why I said "supposedly discounted prices" in my first post.
I guess I will be giving the PPL course in America a miss then. I'd rather do it here in the UK just to be on the safe side if I ever do manage to go commercial.
One issue I came across today was that I also found out another problem which could affect me getting a Class 1 Medical.
I saw the thread regarding colour vision, which led me to try the Ishihara test online. It certainly brought some news to me... my eyes have a colour deficiency.
I never even knew I was partly colour blind. I've never even been affected by it, ever! I haven't even got past the eye-sight problem yet, and now I have another obstacle to get over somehow. Sometimes life really is that cruel...
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Couple of thoughts...
I’m personally a bit wary of these degree + PPL courses. Having a PPL doesn’t make really make you a more attractive employment prospect to an engineering company. Some flying experience (i.e. a handful of hours) and an awareness of the airborne environment is definitely good for an aerospace engineering career, however much beyond that is largely irrelevant. You’re probably better placed doing a more comprehensive engineering degree and pursuing a PPL in your spare time further down the line. On the other hand, if you want to become a professional pilot, why mess around with the degree? Just go and do an integrated fATPL course.
Also, as you’ve now discovered, many of these university led PPL courses don’t present any significant savings over doing it privately in your own time. The way many universities administer the flying element also concerns me – It is a golden rule in aircraft hire to never pay significant sums upfront.
Finally on the medical front – Self diagnosis is the path to convincing yourself that your head, arms and arse are about to fall off. Take the Class 1 medical and view it as an investment in your future. If you pass it with no problems, that’s great, professional aviation is a choice open to you. If you don’t pass, at least you will know definitively, and it might lead you to take a serious look at other options. Like getting in a decent degree and becoming a professional aerospace engineer.
Either way, best of luck, and well done for taking a critical view at things!
I’m personally a bit wary of these degree + PPL courses. Having a PPL doesn’t make really make you a more attractive employment prospect to an engineering company. Some flying experience (i.e. a handful of hours) and an awareness of the airborne environment is definitely good for an aerospace engineering career, however much beyond that is largely irrelevant. You’re probably better placed doing a more comprehensive engineering degree and pursuing a PPL in your spare time further down the line. On the other hand, if you want to become a professional pilot, why mess around with the degree? Just go and do an integrated fATPL course.
Also, as you’ve now discovered, many of these university led PPL courses don’t present any significant savings over doing it privately in your own time. The way many universities administer the flying element also concerns me – It is a golden rule in aircraft hire to never pay significant sums upfront.
Finally on the medical front – Self diagnosis is the path to convincing yourself that your head, arms and arse are about to fall off. Take the Class 1 medical and view it as an investment in your future. If you pass it with no problems, that’s great, professional aviation is a choice open to you. If you don’t pass, at least you will know definitively, and it might lead you to take a serious look at other options. Like getting in a decent degree and becoming a professional aerospace engineer.
Either way, best of luck, and well done for taking a critical view at things!
Last edited by Another St Ivian; 1st Nov 2012 at 13:17.
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In 1964 I went up to university and at the "freshers" conference I learned of the existence of the University air squadron. By joining this, I was told, I could learn to fly free (almost to PPL standard) with the RAF. I would however be required to spend about six weeks in full time service with the RAF during my summer vacations. "Don't worry" it said, "in no way will this affect your academic studies".
"How do thy know that?" I asked myself so, in the end I didn't join, but two of my friends signed up. They had a ball, but, three years later left with pass degrees and what happened to them then, I have no idea. I left four years later with a good honours degree and a masters degree. It was only when my career had started that I was trying to work out what else I could do with life apart from earning my living and drinking beer. I discovered that my local pub was a pilot's haven and that the landlord was an ex RAF Lancaster pilot and a flying instructor. My friends there pointed me in the right direction to firstly try a flight, then when I enjoyed it who to go to to get good, cheap flying lessons. "Flying is like a bug, once you have caught it, it will never let you go." I was warned: PPL, IMC, Night, QFI, then CPL and finally ATPL with approprite employment materialised over the next 17 years.
That good degree has served me very well over the years when flying work has dried up: I strongly recommend that you get the best degree you can first and get your flying in when you have established suitable contacts over here. You may find that the aviation firm you eventually work for will help you.
P.P.
"How do thy know that?" I asked myself so, in the end I didn't join, but two of my friends signed up. They had a ball, but, three years later left with pass degrees and what happened to them then, I have no idea. I left four years later with a good honours degree and a masters degree. It was only when my career had started that I was trying to work out what else I could do with life apart from earning my living and drinking beer. I discovered that my local pub was a pilot's haven and that the landlord was an ex RAF Lancaster pilot and a flying instructor. My friends there pointed me in the right direction to firstly try a flight, then when I enjoyed it who to go to to get good, cheap flying lessons. "Flying is like a bug, once you have caught it, it will never let you go." I was warned: PPL, IMC, Night, QFI, then CPL and finally ATPL with approprite employment materialised over the next 17 years.
That good degree has served me very well over the years when flying work has dried up: I strongly recommend that you get the best degree you can first and get your flying in when you have established suitable contacts over here. You may find that the aviation firm you eventually work for will help you.
P.P.
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I tend to think that if this is integrated into your degree course, you get course and degree title credits for it, and you'll be training alongside your oppos in the same timescale - then go for it.
If most of these are untrue, just go and do a PPL in your own time. There are benefits to flying experience in a professional engineering career, but you don't need to pay over the odds for it.
P
If most of these are untrue, just go and do a PPL in your own time. There are benefits to flying experience in a professional engineering career, but you don't need to pay over the odds for it.
P
