lucky escape after collision and beach landing in Holland

[Dan the weegie]

They will have become fixated on the cub because it's such a lovely machine.

Always hard to tell but the mistakes are
1. Aircraft trying to compete with another for banner towing
2. Bad lookout from everyone especially the guy in the Cessna, presumably because he was formating on the afforemention lovely cub.
3. Poor communication, either not all on the same channel or not reporting what was obvious
4. There was a change in height somewhere, the husky was flying very slowly presumably to formate on the cub but the Cessna clearly slowed and looks like it didn't manage to maintain altitude, the cub will have been back at about 60-65kts so the Cessna would not have been all that easy to handle while maintaining S+L and formation.

In isolation none of these would have caused an accident. I hate the "swiss cheese term" but the holes lined up good and proper.

Lucky people.

I still maintain that cubs are beautiful and is basically the hub of the problem here.

[flyme273]

The Photograph that says it all

All sizes | Oeps... | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[SEP Flyer]

Given the opposing political banners being towed, it looks more like a mid-air coalition. :}

[DeltaV]

flyme273, that photograph makes the whole thing even more inexplicable.

[mary meagher]

A Supercub has really crap viz above and behind, and not particularly good ahead, either! one has to lower the nose from time to time when climbing, for example.

We have here three high wing aircraft with the same rough configuration and consequently the same problems of limited viz above and behind, to say nothing of descending without a good look where you are going. Two were engaged in banner towing, one engaged in arial photography. It is usual in banner towing that only one pilot is on board; though the Cessna seemed to have two up. It is mandatory for any aircraft filming that there are two aboard, one to fly the airplane - and maintain lookout, the other to worry about the photo shoot.

I see no reason why the Dutch authorities should not place a requirement on banner towing activity that could bring some order to the parade along the beachfront; we manage it nicely in Florida and New Jersey.

Question arises, who took that photo of all three planes?????

[maxred]

PFC:: Avoiding Midair Collisions

Not the first time either.

[Pilot DAR]

A Supercub has really crap viz above and behind

Yeah, but that's okay, because pilots (of non combat aircraft) are not expected to give way to aircraft approaching from above and behind.

[mad_jock]

It is mandatory for any aircraft filming that there are two aboard, one to fly the airplane - and maintain lookout, the other to worry about the photo shoot.

Not in the UK.

[mary meagher]

Thank you, maxred, for a superb presentation! a photo of a low-wing mating, so to speak, with a high wing aircraft, and a happy outcome. The discussion that follows this photo should be required reading for ALL PILOTS.

We had the same happen at Wycombe Air Park years ago; the low wing landed on top of a high wing, blind spot bites again. The only reason the pilot of the low-wing survived was the fact that a doctor was present at the gliding launchpoint and gave successful emergency treatment.

A while back I avoided a similar blind spot surprise. The pilot of the glider on tow behind me warned me of the traffic, and when I looked the wrong way commanded on the radio "TURN RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!" and I had a nasty view of the opposing low-wing's undercarriage! The glider pilot, a man of superior experience and ability, continued on tow to the planned altitude of separation; we were able after the flight, with the datalogger on the glider, to identify to the AAIB the time and place. The pilot of the opposing traffic was an instructor with a student under the hood. Another blind spot!

Mad Jock,when I said "mandatory" for any aircraft engaging in air-to-air camera games, I was referring to the laws of survival and common sense....

[Pace]

Mary

I have always been against the so called overhead join in powered flight for the very reasons of mixing high and low winged aircraft in one confined area and making them make several blind and un required 90 degree turns.
Back in the olden days of non radio poor nav it made sense to locate yourself over the airfield and check the ground markings but not nowadays.

Pace

[Immortal]

The long version of the mid-air:

[mary meagher]

Immortal, many thanks for the extended version.

Jan O, flyme 273, or Backpacker, can you possibly give us a translation of the conversation?

As there were actually FOUR people on board that Cessna, including the young and beautiful blonde in the back, its possible the professional pilots were not concentrating 100%.

Interesting that the Cessna pilot has enough confidence in what remains of his aircraft to head for the major airport nearby, where he is met by the emergency services on the main runway. Fair enough, better than the beach. But he then decides that his aircraft is sufficiently intact to taxy five minutes to his hangar!!!!! I think I would have disembarked my pax immediately, asked them to move sharply away from the machine, in case one of those wing tanks was breached and leaking from the impact.

[Immortal]

You mean the conversation in the long version video?

[Armchairflyer]

Frankly, the longer the videos get (WRT to the time before the collision), the less I find it appropriate to put loads of blame and shame on the Cessna pilot. The husky merely appears as a tiny glistering dot in a rather "glareful" environment and its position on the windscreen remains quite stationary, with a tendency to move more and more to the pilot's peripheral field of vision (right lower corner).

I tend to concur with DAR here (if I got his point correctly): the main omission has not occurred in the minutes and seconds before impact but on the ground during planning and briefing of the Cub-Cessna duo. Maybe I misjudge that but IMHO the Husky should have been considerably better visible to the Cub than to the Cessna pilot, and an explicit briefing along the lines of "if anyone in either the Cub or the Cessna spots a plane in the vicinity, holler on the radio instead of assuming that the other pilot has seen it, too" might have made a difference.

[Dg800]

its position on the windscreen remains quite stationary

This is, unfortunately, true of any other traffic you are about to collide with. If it's moving across the windscreen that it's just going to be another airprox. Our attention is instinctively drawn to anything that moves but in this context it's what appears to be stationary that should really get all of our attention.

Ciao,

Dg800

[172driver]

Agree with Archchairflyer here. There but for the grace of God.......

Don't forget that the camera is mounted on the RIGHT side of the cockpit (in fact you can see it - a GoPro - very briefly towards the end of the long video), so from the left seat the Husky would have been almost invisible - a small dot right into the sun against a glistering sea surface which then most likely slipped beneath the cowling and out of view.

Also, the photographer on the right obviously was focussed on the Cub, that's what he was reporting on after all. No surprise that he didn't call out. The only one who should perhaps have had a good view of the Husky might have been the Cub pilot.

As I said in an earlier post, I think the collision wouldn't have happened if the the Cessna had continued straight and level, but for whatever reason (better view?), it descended a bit - right on to the wing of the Husky.

I'm not sure if better briefing on the ground would have helped much either, as in my understanding the two banner towers took off from different airports.

The holes in the cheese really lined up in this one, good they all lived to tell the tale.

[I Love Flying]

At 3:31 does it look to others as though the Cub pilot is trying to draw the photographer's attention to the Husky by pointing his finger?

[BackPacker]

The more I watch video footage the more I start to think that there was no deliberate formation or photo shoot or any other close formation work planned. Both banner towing aircraft would not be in close formation as they were towing banners of rival political parties (CDA and SP), and the Cessna would not be in a preplanned formation with any of them since it seems like it's just been a pleasure flight. At least, the young lady in the video was asked about what she thought about her first flight in a light aircraft. It might be me but I would not want to have a first-time flier with me when I'm doing a photo flight like that. And when you do a photo flight, you take pictures of the plane, not from the view outside the opposite window or your legs. And you keep up with the airplane you're photographing, instead of overtaking it. Furthermore, I cannot hear any radio traffic that would be consistent with a formation or planned photo shoot.

So it looks to me that the "formation" between the Cessna and the Cub was actually just an overtaking maneuver, although one executed in relative close proximity. In that bit of airspace you don't have a lot of choice. Sea on your right, a Prohibited area (EHP26/26a) on your left, possible opposing traffic going North over the beach, and the Schiphol TMA (class A) at 1500' above you. So the Cessna was simply overtaking the Cub, when the Cub noticed the Husky underneath the Cessna. He pointed down to indicate the other aircraft, at which point the RHS passenger saw the wing of the Husky, but by then it was too late to avoid.

The Dutch commentary of the girl and the guy at the end doesn't have a lot of substance to it. To a large extent it's just the rambling of two people who had a very close brush with death, but lived to tell the tale. The things that I found noteworthy are above.

I think the collision wouldn't have happened if the the Cessna had continued straight and level, but for whatever reason (better view?), it descended a bit - right on to the wing of the Husky.

The wind at that day was S-SE, very calm, and it was a bright sunny day. There might well have been thermals coming off the beach.

At 3:31 does it look to others as though the Cub pilot is trying to draw the photographer's attention to the Husky by pointing his finger?

The guy at the end of the video commented that he saw the Cub pilot pointing down, just before he saw the Husky. So that might well be the case.

Question arises, who took that photo of all three planes?????

The beaches were packed that day. I would imagine that quite a few of the sunbathers had cameras with them.

[Armchairflyer]

At 3:31 does it look to others as though the Cub pilot is trying to draw the photographer's attention to the Husky by pointing his finger?

Maybe, indeed.

OTOH that would hardly be an effective and/or unambiguous warning (couldn't such a gesture also be understood as "descend a little"? ). If the Cub pilot really has spotted the Husky and was in radio contact with the Cessna (both pure speculation), then relying on handwaving instead of R/T would seem the gravest and least understandable omission to me .

Edit: BackPacker's conjecture that there never was a planned formation between Cub and Cessna somehow makes sense to me; in that case cancel gravity and lack of understanding.

[Immortal]

Some translated parts:

@ Minute 4:00 Male voice: I love you all

@6:44: Male: So people, what do think of this? "cursing"
Woman: "Yes it was kind of serious"
Male: Yes, so f*cking hell
woman: I was more flabergasted than afraid

@ min 07:04
Pilot: I tried to steer along with the other aircraft with my rudder.
Male: Very good, very good we were lucky because of that

@ 7:19
Male: So and how was your first flight in a small aircraft?
Woman: "Yes, well actually it started as fun."
Male: "Yes but a bit different than expected,"
Woman: "yes indeed, suddenly I saw a wing under our wheel, I thought, what is this?
Male: Yes, How does it get there?
Woman: Yes and then we suddenly dived downwards
Male: and when we hit the other aircraft what did you think at that moment?
Woman: Yes, I don't know, it goes so fast, you don't have time to feel fear. It's more like a what the f*ck moment.
Male: I agree on that! Absolutely what the f*ck