Too high on final
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At the same time, to throw the approach away was to admit that I had got it irretrievably wrong, and this would mean a fail
Pace
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"to throw the approach away was to admit that I had got it irretrievably wrong [and go around]" wouldn't that also show good airmanship in recognising what was wrong and dealing with it safely......even on a GST providing you explained why you were doing what you were doing would they fail you?
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Penny I have never heard of anyone being failed on a go around
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I really think there is only 1 answer to the question. Go Around!! Learning that discipline early in your flying carreer is vital. Trying to practice aerobatics on final is only for the very experienced or stupid. We often in flying have ambitions to fly something bigger, faster , less stable and therefore unless your approach is stable the discipline must be in training to go around.
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My tester rightly ticked me off for getting too fast on the approach
( edited because I put in three x's and someone would have said that is too fast for a light single with flaps down!)
Last edited by foxmoth; 19th Jul 2012 at 14:55.
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Sideslip. If you don't know how, ask to be shown. It's a basic pilot skill that everyone should have.
It works on all aeroplanes, even big airliners; the guy who glided the airliner for miles over the Atlantic after losing all the fuel and put it down on an island airport slipped off the excess height on final.
The ASI will tell porkies, so fly attitude to keep the speed under control - many folks have a tendency to let the nose drop in the slip, which increases speed so you'll float forever when you try to land.
To the argument 'you shouldn't be too high to start with' I say that's bollox. There's the engine failure case - keep height in hand and slip it off on final. And I remember going into Shobdon once keeping the circuit tight as is my wont in the Chippy when a bomber Cessna announced a mega-final much further out than I was. I was tight left base so commenced a go-around when the A/G reminded me of the parallel grass strip.
I chopped the power, dropped full flap again, while hoinking it round to line up with said grass strip for which I was too high. A full-rudder slip cured that and we landed just after the numbers and taxyed clear. I think I'd re-fuelled and and was well into my bacon buttie before the Bomber landed.
It works on all aeroplanes, even big airliners; the guy who glided the airliner for miles over the Atlantic after losing all the fuel and put it down on an island airport slipped off the excess height on final.
The ASI will tell porkies, so fly attitude to keep the speed under control - many folks have a tendency to let the nose drop in the slip, which increases speed so you'll float forever when you try to land.
To the argument 'you shouldn't be too high to start with' I say that's bollox. There's the engine failure case - keep height in hand and slip it off on final. And I remember going into Shobdon once keeping the circuit tight as is my wont in the Chippy when a bomber Cessna announced a mega-final much further out than I was. I was tight left base so commenced a go-around when the A/G reminded me of the parallel grass strip.
I chopped the power, dropped full flap again, while hoinking it round to line up with said grass strip for which I was too high. A full-rudder slip cured that and we landed just after the numbers and taxyed clear. I think I'd re-fuelled and and was well into my bacon buttie before the Bomber landed.
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We've all made aware of the Best Glide speed for an aircraft. So, assuming we increase or decrease the speed in relation to the best glide speed we will will Decrease the glide distance. If, we put the nose down, reduce the power and increase the speed presumably we will get rid of the height and shorten the distance to the threshold.
I've tried this in a C150 and it works. Any comments?
I've tried this in a C150 and it works. Any comments?
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You only need one engine stoppage on approach to teach the value of holding on to height until you absolutely have to get rid of it to land so I'm in favour of learning high sink rate manoeuvres and I squirm when I see singles being dragged in on 3 degree glide slopes (a misnomer if ever there was one). I fly a single and acknowledge that multi engine types may well be different.
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.A forward slip is indeed a possibility for the competent, if appropriate for the type & configuration. Shoving the nose down in some types will quickly exceed the flap limiting speed & in a non-emergency situation this should be a no-no
.In an emergency when a go-around would be impossible or ill-advised, I'd suggest the inexperienced pilot in a simple SEP would be best advised to just shove the nose down & accept the overspeed condition.
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In addition to what's been said before, may I also caution you AGAINST your option 2?
From a theoretical standpoint option two, slowing down well below minimum drag speed, should work to steepen your approach. BUT you are very, very close to the stall which means that low-level turbulence, wind shear or a gust might lead to a stall-spin scenario. Also, flying very close to the stall means you have no energy buffer to speak of to flare. And it requires quite a bit of energy to get back on the other side of the drag curve, so if you do need to execute a go-around you might not be able to do that without some significant sink, even with full power on.
My solution if I'm high (or if ATC all of a sudden asks me to do a short circuit, which really amounts to the same thing, aerodynamically) is to close the throttle, pull the nose up until the speed is below Vfe, lower the flaps all the way in one go, then push down keeping the speed just below Vfe. That will give you maximum drag and the steepest approach. And the excess speed will wash off surprisingly quickly once you round out. You can, as said, further increase drag with S-turns and/or sideslips.
But keep in mind that eventually you have to obtain a normal approach path/speed, from which you can do a normal flare and landing at your designated touchdown point. If it's a marginal-length runway don't try to recover a bad approach with these techniques. Go around and make sure the approach is OK next time.
From a theoretical standpoint option two, slowing down well below minimum drag speed, should work to steepen your approach. BUT you are very, very close to the stall which means that low-level turbulence, wind shear or a gust might lead to a stall-spin scenario. Also, flying very close to the stall means you have no energy buffer to speak of to flare. And it requires quite a bit of energy to get back on the other side of the drag curve, so if you do need to execute a go-around you might not be able to do that without some significant sink, even with full power on.
My solution if I'm high (or if ATC all of a sudden asks me to do a short circuit, which really amounts to the same thing, aerodynamically) is to close the throttle, pull the nose up until the speed is below Vfe, lower the flaps all the way in one go, then push down keeping the speed just below Vfe. That will give you maximum drag and the steepest approach. And the excess speed will wash off surprisingly quickly once you round out. You can, as said, further increase drag with S-turns and/or sideslips.
But keep in mind that eventually you have to obtain a normal approach path/speed, from which you can do a normal flare and landing at your designated touchdown point. If it's a marginal-length runway don't try to recover a bad approach with these techniques. Go around and make sure the approach is OK next time.
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Immortal I thought side slipping gave you a wrong airspeed indication. Because of the air blowing a bit sideways into the pitot tube.
If you need an asi and an altimeter to land an aircraft you haven't flown enough.
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Last year I did a reval in a C152. went to my home strip to land, normal approach for my taildragger but too high for the 152, at 100 ft & nearly over the trees I remarked "That will do for me" & opened the throttle for a go around, Instructor said "That'll do for me too, no problems."
Hardly an answer for a student asking the question.
If you need an asi and an altimeter to land an aircraft you haven't flown enough.
Last edited by Crash one; 19th Jul 2012 at 22:48.
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You only need one engine stoppage on approach to teach the value of holding on to height until you absolutely have to get rid of it to land so I'm in favour of learning high sink rate manoeuvres and I squirm when I see singles being dragged in on 3 degree glide slopes (a misnomer if ever there was one). I fly a single and acknowledge that multi engine types may well be different.
When one has paid for a new turbo charged engine due to poor engine temperature management, one takes a different view on these things.