Airfields that ban some of us, plus the "no fees for safety diversions" scheme
Avoid imitations
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...and one 'tw@t' on the ground?
Whatever the rules, there's nothing wrong with a firm but polite attitude, rather than a red-faced rant.
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Maybe the bath colour clashed with the tent fly sheet strapped to the top.
G
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So you were thrown off the field for being obviously straight with an Engineers normal sense of colour coordination.
Just like Fife then
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Ghengis, at my gliding site, we have a planning condition that precludes powered aircraft, other than glider tugs, except in emergency. So No, we do not welcome visitors who just want to add it to their logbook collection or visit a nearby friend. It would be illegal for us to, and we have already had many visits from the council enforcement officer, and more than one enforcement notice in the past, when they think we have infringed some condition or planning rule.
We have, however, welcomed in the past: 2 Flexwings who encountered bad weather and turned back to us - we fed, watered, and warmed them up, until they were happy to continue; then a chap on the way from France to Scotland, landed here late – we gave him a bed for the night in our caravan/clubhouse (all we have – the council refused planning permission for anything better); and sundry other people with varying degrees of urgency or distress.
It has nothing to do with a snobbish attitude that gliding is superior to power.
Chris N
We have, however, welcomed in the past: 2 Flexwings who encountered bad weather and turned back to us - we fed, watered, and warmed them up, until they were happy to continue; then a chap on the way from France to Scotland, landed here late – we gave him a bed for the night in our caravan/clubhouse (all we have – the council refused planning permission for anything better); and sundry other people with varying degrees of urgency or distress.
It has nothing to do with a snobbish attitude that gliding is superior to power.
Chris N
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Did the planners give a reason for 3 axis being OK and flex wing being unacceptable?
we did manage to get 3 axis microlights allowed but the flex wing rule was kept in place by the inspector running the appeal
Last edited by piperboy84; 28th Jun 2012 at 16:17.
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Hard to see much rational difference between, say, a Flash 2a and a Thruster TST - or between a Quik and a C150 in terms of speeds and noise.
Mind you, does the planning system have to be rational?
G
Mind you, does the planning system have to be rational?
G
Very sad. I'd expect a person employed in aviation to respect the decision of an aircraft Commander to make a precautionary landing when having tech problems.
Tatenhill 0/10
Here's a good news story: Landed at Wolverhampton/Halfpenny Green last week for fuel and overnight stop. Next day was not flyable and we were stuck for another night. No further charge as they treated it as a 'weather diversion' and extended the same benefits to the flexwing who arrived 5 minutes after us and found themselves in the same predicament.
Wolverhampton/H'penny Green 10/10
Planning restrictions seem to be a throwback to the early years of microlights with very noisy (Robin?) engines. They are in the minority nowadays. I know of an airfield in my locality that has a 'no microlights' rule due to planning. However, it is applied flexibly for aircraft such as my Rans S6 because it looks like a "proper plane"
Perhaps it is time for the likes of the BMAA & LAA to join forces and seek to tidy up the outdated misconceptions ?
Tatenhill 0/10
Here's a good news story: Landed at Wolverhampton/Halfpenny Green last week for fuel and overnight stop. Next day was not flyable and we were stuck for another night. No further charge as they treated it as a 'weather diversion' and extended the same benefits to the flexwing who arrived 5 minutes after us and found themselves in the same predicament.
Wolverhampton/H'penny Green 10/10
Planning restrictions seem to be a throwback to the early years of microlights with very noisy (Robin?) engines. They are in the minority nowadays. I know of an airfield in my locality that has a 'no microlights' rule due to planning. However, it is applied flexibly for aircraft such as my Rans S6 because it looks like a "proper plane"
Perhaps it is time for the likes of the BMAA & LAA to join forces and seek to tidy up the outdated misconceptions ?
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Anyone want to have a guess at what percentage of flex wing have 2 stroke v. 4 stroke?
And if i was gonna hazard a guess the 2 stroke thing may be the reason for differentiating between the 3 axis and flex wing as far as planners and field owners are concerned. I'm definitely no expert on microlights but i assume most 3 axis would have larger 4 strokes and the flex are suited for either, and its probably a bit of what AnglianAV8R said regarding "what looks like a proper plane" to non pilots such as planners
And if i was gonna hazard a guess the 2 stroke thing may be the reason for differentiating between the 3 axis and flex wing as far as planners and field owners are concerned. I'm definitely no expert on microlights but i assume most 3 axis would have larger 4 strokes and the flex are suited for either, and its probably a bit of what AnglianAV8R said regarding "what looks like a proper plane" to non pilots such as planners
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Wolverhampton / Halfpenny Green has transformed out of all recognition recently. Back in the "Wolverhampton Spaceport" days they were inflexible, expensive, and generally unfriendly.
I'm not quite sure when the change happened, but I've heard nothing but good of the place recently - and several recent visits I've made they couldn't do enough for us.
Piperboy - the 2-strokes are cheaper to buy, have a better power-to-weight, and for a sole-owned aeroplane that fly low hours, probably only need a significant service every 5 years. So for older, and privately owned aeroplanes, they make a lot of sense. The 4-strokes are heavier, more expensive, but for a high-useage aeroplane the longer service intervals and lower fuel burn are really worth having. So, the 2-stroke aeroplanes tend to be either the older (pre-1999 when the microlight weight limit changed from 390kg to 450kg) aeroplanes, or the sole-owned aeroplanes. Not a universal rule, but a common one.
In reality however, all microlights have had to meet strict noise limits for years, whilst light aeroplanes have yet to have such limits applied in the UK. So it's really not clearcut.
G
I'm not quite sure when the change happened, but I've heard nothing but good of the place recently - and several recent visits I've made they couldn't do enough for us.
Piperboy - the 2-strokes are cheaper to buy, have a better power-to-weight, and for a sole-owned aeroplane that fly low hours, probably only need a significant service every 5 years. So for older, and privately owned aeroplanes, they make a lot of sense. The 4-strokes are heavier, more expensive, but for a high-useage aeroplane the longer service intervals and lower fuel burn are really worth having. So, the 2-stroke aeroplanes tend to be either the older (pre-1999 when the microlight weight limit changed from 390kg to 450kg) aeroplanes, or the sole-owned aeroplanes. Not a universal rule, but a common one.
In reality however, all microlights have had to meet strict noise limits for years, whilst light aeroplanes have yet to have such limits applied in the UK. So it's really not clearcut.
G
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does the planning system have to be rational?
Which is not to say that committees don't sometimes take odd decisions for political reasons, but where these are decisions to refuse they can be overturned on appeal (there's no appeal against granting permission). Or an unsound policy can be overturned by inspectors or, I imagine, at JR.
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I wasn't actually but now you mention it.
I was having more of a comment about engineers and engineering academics.
Hair length and colour coordination is a handy way of spotting a member of the product design mafia approaching to ruin your day.
Manky cords/chinos, brown brogue shoes with a clashing shirt and tie usually signifies someone that knows what they are talking about.
I was having more of a comment about engineers and engineering academics.
Hair length and colour coordination is a handy way of spotting a member of the product design mafia approaching to ruin your day.
Manky cords/chinos, brown brogue shoes with a clashing shirt and tie usually signifies someone that knows what they are talking about.
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I've landed several times at Lasham in powered SEP aircraft, admittedly for a purpose but certainly not on gliding business. Parham, Wormingford, Challock, Upwood and Rattlesden as well. Some have planning issues or movement limits for power aircraft. I personally think it's more like: "you power pilots can't possibly be as good as us glider pilots, so be a good chap and buzz off"
If you want to land at a gliding airfield that 'bans' power, just lob in unannounced, land exactly where you want, start making phone calls and when challenged, tell them you ran out of ideas and "landed out'. Works for gliders at the private strip I fly from which only accepts any aircraft by invitation...
As lasham pilot can I explain why we discourage power without prior permission. We have a very large site and are trying to make everything within the perimeter track landable and currently have part of the site recently seeded.
Normal gliding operations will have the control bus on the main runway. The winch will be placed on the grass with the cables towed out on the grass parralel to the runway. Club aerotows use the main runway starting level with the bus. Trial flights start from outside the club house. We thus have 3 launchpoints coordinated by radio.
Circuits can be both right and left handed landing on the grass on the appropriate side of the runway without crossing the centre line.
We also have ATC a Boing maintenance organisation on site who have jets, helicopters and twins arriving and departing.
Overhead joins are forbidden as we have steel winch cables to over 2000ft. During the summer the site can get very busy with movement peaks of over 200/hr. Total movements 59,000pa busier than most regional airports.
This set up is very different to a normal power airfield. We are not better just different.
As an example we had a visiting pilot last year who insisted on doing 5 mile 3 degree approaches. After 4 go rounds because gliders cut in front of him he finaly wised up and flew the same tighter steeper circuit.
If you want to land at a gliding airfield that 'bans' power, just lob in unannounced, land exactly where you want, start making phone calls and when challenged, tell them you ran out of ideas and "landed out'. Works for gliders at the private strip I fly from which only accepts any aircraft by invitation...
As lasham pilot can I explain why we discourage power without prior permission. We have a very large site and are trying to make everything within the perimeter track landable and currently have part of the site recently seeded.
Normal gliding operations will have the control bus on the main runway. The winch will be placed on the grass with the cables towed out on the grass parralel to the runway. Club aerotows use the main runway starting level with the bus. Trial flights start from outside the club house. We thus have 3 launchpoints coordinated by radio.
Circuits can be both right and left handed landing on the grass on the appropriate side of the runway without crossing the centre line.
We also have ATC a Boing maintenance organisation on site who have jets, helicopters and twins arriving and departing.
Overhead joins are forbidden as we have steel winch cables to over 2000ft. During the summer the site can get very busy with movement peaks of over 200/hr. Total movements 59,000pa busier than most regional airports.
This set up is very different to a normal power airfield. We are not better just different.
As an example we had a visiting pilot last year who insisted on doing 5 mile 3 degree approaches. After 4 go rounds because gliders cut in front of him he finaly wised up and flew the same tighter steeper circuit.
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cumulusrider. Sorry, but I really don't accept your arguments. There are many very busy airfields around the country which mix some combination of gliders, microlights, fixed wing singles and twins, parachutists, helicopters.... It really isn't hard to do. The fact is, Lasham has always been quite clear in it's collective mind that it simply doesn't want powered not there on gliding business, and will continue to arrange things to ensure that.
G
G
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at meldex
Meldex..... I know who you mean and have had a couple of problems... But i fly from tatenhill and refuse to fly when he is there!
I find everyone else there to be extremely friendly and have never had a problem with anyone of them (exception to a bearded chief)
Not sure what was happening on the day you landed G just goes to show though.. People should look at the facts before ranting and raving... You could have been having a heart attack or something! And then get verbally attacked! ...... Ive learned to never snap at anyone without knowing the facts..... But thats just me.
Dont rule tatenhill out though people its just one guy having a bad day and taking it out on G.
I find everyone else there to be extremely friendly and have never had a problem with anyone of them (exception to a bearded chief)
Not sure what was happening on the day you landed G just goes to show though.. People should look at the facts before ranting and raving... You could have been having a heart attack or something! And then get verbally attacked! ...... Ive learned to never snap at anyone without knowing the facts..... But thats just me.
Dont rule tatenhill out though people its just one guy having a bad day and taking it out on G.
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CAA need to get their finger out their backsides. It should be illegal to charge a landing fee for a safety reason. I'm sure many pilots have wanted to divert for something but haven't because of a large fee... 
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Flying OCAS and IMC into Biggin Hill in a Seneca Five I have twice in the past had to miss off the ILS due to low cloud.
Both times I took a diversion into Farnborough and got away with no charges.
This was about 10 years ago
Then again with a position OCAS in a Citation tried the same technique after missing at Biggin (all my misses at Biggin
I again diverted into Farnborough with a comment of not you again and if my owner could afford that thing no way 
Oh well some you win some you loose
Pace
Both times I took a diversion into Farnborough and got away with no charges.
This was about 10 years ago
Then again with a position OCAS in a Citation tried the same technique after missing at Biggin (all my misses at Biggin
I again diverted into Farnborough with a comment of not you again and if my owner could afford that thing no way Oh well some you win some you loose
Pace
Genghis,
Lasham have no problem with powered aircraft. There are several SEPs based there (& I'm not just referring to the tugs.) Nor do you have to be on gliding business to fly into/from Lasham; Bill Brooks was there earlier this year in a flexwing & he wasn't there for any gliding related purpose.
What they absolutely do not want is to be part of the £100 bacon butty circuit. On a good day (
), Lasham will be launching almost continuously from 10am until sunset (ATC permitting) & any delays are resented. Powered aircraft, particularly visitors who aren't used to operating @ Lasham, inevitably do delay launches & that's why Lasham is not a drop-in destination.
People with a reason to visit, usually (but not always) a gliding reason, will be welcomed. Casual visitors will be told thanks, but we would rather you went somewhere else.
Lasham have no problem with powered aircraft. There are several SEPs based there (& I'm not just referring to the tugs.) Nor do you have to be on gliding business to fly into/from Lasham; Bill Brooks was there earlier this year in a flexwing & he wasn't there for any gliding related purpose.
What they absolutely do not want is to be part of the £100 bacon butty circuit. On a good day (
), Lasham will be launching almost continuously from 10am until sunset (ATC permitting) & any delays are resented. Powered aircraft, particularly visitors who aren't used to operating @ Lasham, inevitably do delay launches & that's why Lasham is not a drop-in destination.People with a reason to visit, usually (but not always) a gliding reason, will be welcomed. Casual visitors will be told thanks, but we would rather you went somewhere else.