N-reg situation update
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Having read through this thread I am looking for a little advice, After absorbing the content of the thread in regard of the proposed EASA rule changes, I am a little worried regarding my current PPL training.
A brief outline is..
I am a UK citizen and reside here in the UK, as I am now semi retired I am a frequent visitor to Florida where we have a holiday home, this year I decided it was time to fullfill a long ambition I have had to obtain a PPL while I still have health and hopefully a few more years still ahead (I am 63yrs old, so don't have a great deal of time left on my side)
Partly due to cost and partly due to the agreeable weather in Florida, I decided that would be where I would do my PPL training.
For the last couple of months I have been training while in Florida, I now have some 50 hrs logged and have completed my solo time. I am due back in Florida for June & July, then I hope to complete my cross country and night requirement training and be in a position take my checkride to get my PPL.
After reading about the new rules that are coming into force, I am now worried that I will be required to re-train again here in the UK to be allowed to fly here.
My questions to those with a better understanding of the situation is...
1. Should I now consider cancelling the rest of my US training schedule and sign up with a flight school here in the UK to finish off my PPL training ?
2. Will my current US hours/training count towards completing my training here in the UK
Thank you, any opinons/advice would be most appreciated.
Allan.
A brief outline is..
I am a UK citizen and reside here in the UK, as I am now semi retired I am a frequent visitor to Florida where we have a holiday home, this year I decided it was time to fullfill a long ambition I have had to obtain a PPL while I still have health and hopefully a few more years still ahead (I am 63yrs old, so don't have a great deal of time left on my side)
Partly due to cost and partly due to the agreeable weather in Florida, I decided that would be where I would do my PPL training.
For the last couple of months I have been training while in Florida, I now have some 50 hrs logged and have completed my solo time. I am due back in Florida for June & July, then I hope to complete my cross country and night requirement training and be in a position take my checkride to get my PPL.
After reading about the new rules that are coming into force, I am now worried that I will be required to re-train again here in the UK to be allowed to fly here.
My questions to those with a better understanding of the situation is...
1. Should I now consider cancelling the rest of my US training schedule and sign up with a flight school here in the UK to finish off my PPL training ?
2. Will my current US hours/training count towards completing my training here in the UK
Thank you, any opinons/advice would be most appreciated.
Allan.
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Allan
You don't say whether the PPL you are doing is an FAA one or a JAR-FCL one, or indeed both at the same time.
There are ~ 6 schools in Florida which can do the JAR one, or the combined one.
Currently you can fly a G-reg plane worldwide VFR on an FAA (or any other ICAO non-JAR) PPL. After April 2014 (or is it April 2015?) this automatic validation will cease - except for "non EASA" (loosely this means Permit/homebuilt types) aircraft on which it will continue indefinitely.
If your PPL is a JAR one then that will be good under EASA.
If your PPL is an FAA one only then you should consider moving to one of the JAR-capable schools and finish off there and knock off both sets of papers at the same time. The FAA one will entitle you to fly any N-reg plane anywhere in the world, and the JAR one will convert to an EASA one which will entitle you to fly any EASA-reg plane anywhere in the world.
Running both PPLs has the downside of needing both medicals but there are multiple AMEs in the UK which can do both in one go. I pay something like £180 I think for both Class 1s done in one go. You won't need Class 1s; you will need a UK CAA Class 2 and an FAA Class 3.
You don't say whether the PPL you are doing is an FAA one or a JAR-FCL one, or indeed both at the same time.
There are ~ 6 schools in Florida which can do the JAR one, or the combined one.
Currently you can fly a G-reg plane worldwide VFR on an FAA (or any other ICAO non-JAR) PPL. After April 2014 (or is it April 2015?) this automatic validation will cease - except for "non EASA" (loosely this means Permit/homebuilt types) aircraft on which it will continue indefinitely.
If your PPL is a JAR one then that will be good under EASA.
If your PPL is an FAA one only then you should consider moving to one of the JAR-capable schools and finish off there and knock off both sets of papers at the same time. The FAA one will entitle you to fly any N-reg plane anywhere in the world, and the JAR one will convert to an EASA one which will entitle you to fly any EASA-reg plane anywhere in the world.
Running both PPLs has the downside of needing both medicals but there are multiple AMEs in the UK which can do both in one go. I pay something like £180 I think for both Class 1s done in one go. You won't need Class 1s; you will need a UK CAA Class 2 and an FAA Class 3.
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Thanks for that Pace. It would be good to have a further update from a representative of AOPA on this forum. Perhaps if they are reading they might like to offer some hope if there is any, or advice for the many pilots affected.
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Thomas its not worth getting a further update till after June when we should have a better indication of what sort of bi lateral FCL we may expect.
I will be very surprised if there is none at all but equally surprised if its a give us yours here is ours scenario.
I would expect something on type rated ATPs but nothing which would allow an EASA training PPL to sidestep the system!
Anthing inbetween who knows.
Pace
I will be very surprised if there is none at all but equally surprised if its a give us yours here is ours scenario.
I would expect something on type rated ATPs but nothing which would allow an EASA training PPL to sidestep the system!
Anthing inbetween who knows.
Pace
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There is already a straight conversion for an ATP with 2000+hrs on Part 25 aircraft...
I am aware of that
Hence why it would be easy to make that applicable to other type rated ATPs without messing up the EASA training system.Pace
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But that would then miss out the multicrew requirement for the ATPL if they missed out the JAR25 bit. So I don't think it will be on the cards.
ATP to CPL type/IR might be a possibility though with ATPL theory needed if you want to upgrade it to ATPL.
ATP to CPL type/IR might be a possibility though with ATPL theory needed if you want to upgrade it to ATPL.
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Thanks peterh337, the PPL training I am currently doing is the only for the FAA rating.
After giving it some more thought and listening to advice, I have decided that as I am so close to completing my training, I will continue with the FAA PPL at my current Florida flight school, then do the JAR rating later at one of the JAR qualified flight schools.
After giving it some more thought and listening to advice, I have decided that as I am so close to completing my training, I will continue with the FAA PPL at my current Florida flight school, then do the JAR rating later at one of the JAR qualified flight schools.
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Mad Jock
There should be an exam element as they are different airspaces but there can be no sensible argument as to why an FAA ATP flying as a Captain on a jet already in Europe should have to sit 14 exams full of loads of totally irrelevant material.
Anyway give it a few months and I may have to follow that stupid route??? But then maybe not!
Pace
There should be an exam element as they are different airspaces but there can be no sensible argument as to why an FAA ATP flying as a Captain on a jet already in Europe should have to sit 14 exams full of loads of totally irrelevant material.
Anyway give it a few months and I may have to follow that stupid route??? But then maybe not!
Pace
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As long as you only want to do day VFR you might not need to bother. In fact in some ways you will need less if your flying a G reg than a N reg in the UK.
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Sorry Peter I might have it wrong.
But I though the original day VFR for ICAO holders was going to stand.
But then if you were in a N reg you would need both tickets.
We shall see what happens Pace.
But I though the original day VFR for ICAO holders was going to stand.
But then if you were in a N reg you would need both tickets.
We shall see what happens Pace.
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Question for Peter, Bose, Pace, 421, MJ - and anyone else!
If you were flying privately only in Europe, had an IMCR and you were considering doing an IR, in light of what is going on, would you go FAA , or JAR / EASA now?
If you were flying privately only in Europe, had an IMCR and you were considering doing an IR, in light of what is going on, would you go FAA , or JAR / EASA now?
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I don't thinks so. The CAA rules such as that referenced above are no longer valid legislation with respect to non-Annex II aircraft. The new rules seem very clear that a pilot with a foreign licence can, over their lifetime, receive only a single validation for 1 year. So even a properly resident US pilot visiting Europe for one week in May 2012 and one week in June 2013 can fly a local aircraft on a validation on only one of those visits.
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If the answer is 'No', then I would suggest holding the decision for a few months to suss the lay of the land.
If the answer with regard to N-Reg aircraft is 'Yes', then it is more complicated and depends on when you want to achieve the rating and a number of decisions/actions that will be taken over the course of this year. The straight EASA route is the clear one - all the rest are dependant on decisions/implementations that are not yet defined.
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The only way you can be bullet proof is by getting your local license.
As flynn says there are some pretty major discussions to be had in the not so distant future. But even if it does come through, fast forward a few years and they will have another shot at stopping it if the N reg fleet keeps increasing.
If you do the ATPL's for the IR you might as well knock the CPL off as well if you own your own machine. Your insurance premiums may drop once you have it and cover the additional in a few years. Also takes shifting mates planes out of a grey area into a legal one if doing it for free.
If you want a FAA ticket at a later date you can either get a stand alone or do the FAA IR exam and flight test. Other way around and its a pain in the rear.
As flynn says there are some pretty major discussions to be had in the not so distant future. But even if it does come through, fast forward a few years and they will have another shot at stopping it if the N reg fleet keeps increasing.
If you do the ATPL's for the IR you might as well knock the CPL off as well if you own your own machine. Your insurance premiums may drop once you have it and cover the additional in a few years. Also takes shifting mates planes out of a grey area into a legal one if doing it for free.
If you want a FAA ticket at a later date you can either get a stand alone or do the FAA IR exam and flight test. Other way around and its a pain in the rear.
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Only a madman would do the JAA CPL/IR for private flying only. The extra 7 exams are a lot of work. It is more than 7 extra exams too because the 7 PPL/IR exams are (in the UK) less than a subset of the 14.
As regards the Q re strategy, I recommend that anybody in that position has a browse of my long writeup especially the notes near the end of it. Much depends on how much you value international IFR, whether you have a plane which can take advantage of it and do high altitude trips like this, and how much you want it now relative to your present age. I've had that since 2006 and found it priceless and, being 55, one doesn't have unlimited time to enjoy life. One can go everywhere in Europe "VFR" but quite a bit of it will be in IMC and more to the point not as safe as it could be because much ATC will not let you into CAS so you end up pushed into IMC and collecting ice instead of flying above it as you can with the IR. This is a conversation I've had with individuals countless times and only the individual can answer it for himself. Some of them will obviously (to me) never do an IR (any IR) because their lives are self evidently too busy running their work or their packed social life - even if they have the money to fly enough to stay current and have access to a suitable plane. Some of those people could have done an FAA IR because that one is easier to fit around a busy life because it has just one exam whose content is mostly relevant to aviation and it can be done wholly with freelance instructors, but then you get stuffed (in Europe) over the checkride..... I did the FAA IR because my lady was away for 4 weeks and I could then spend 2 weeks living out of a sh*thole in Arizona. In 2011 I did the JAA IR purely as an insurance policy against the EASA worst case scenario because I had just finished one big project and wanted something to get stuck into for a few months. The JAA IR I have is not even valid to fly my own plane! But I was not going to do it if it meant living for weeks out of some sh*thole near an FTO so I bent over backwards to do it at my local airport. I was fortunate to bump into some extremely helpful individuals who made it all possible to do it in my own plane.
If you have lots of time and no life then the answer is obvious: do an FAA CPL/IR (like I have) and do a JAA CPL/IR, all ME of course, and then you have gold plated papers which entitle you to the full gold braided Col Gaddafi uniform from Transair And Bob Pooley will be delighted to sell you one of his £800 swords to wear with it.
As regards the Q re strategy, I recommend that anybody in that position has a browse of my long writeup especially the notes near the end of it. Much depends on how much you value international IFR, whether you have a plane which can take advantage of it and do high altitude trips like this, and how much you want it now relative to your present age. I've had that since 2006 and found it priceless and, being 55, one doesn't have unlimited time to enjoy life. One can go everywhere in Europe "VFR" but quite a bit of it will be in IMC and more to the point not as safe as it could be because much ATC will not let you into CAS so you end up pushed into IMC and collecting ice instead of flying above it as you can with the IR. This is a conversation I've had with individuals countless times and only the individual can answer it for himself. Some of them will obviously (to me) never do an IR (any IR) because their lives are self evidently too busy running their work or their packed social life - even if they have the money to fly enough to stay current and have access to a suitable plane. Some of those people could have done an FAA IR because that one is easier to fit around a busy life because it has just one exam whose content is mostly relevant to aviation and it can be done wholly with freelance instructors, but then you get stuffed (in Europe) over the checkride..... I did the FAA IR because my lady was away for 4 weeks and I could then spend 2 weeks living out of a sh*thole in Arizona. In 2011 I did the JAA IR purely as an insurance policy against the EASA worst case scenario because I had just finished one big project and wanted something to get stuck into for a few months. The JAA IR I have is not even valid to fly my own plane! But I was not going to do it if it meant living for weeks out of some sh*thole near an FTO so I bent over backwards to do it at my local airport. I was fortunate to bump into some extremely helpful individuals who made it all possible to do it in my own plane.
If you have lots of time and no life then the answer is obvious: do an FAA CPL/IR (like I have) and do a JAA CPL/IR, all ME of course, and then you have gold plated papers which entitle you to the full gold braided Col Gaddafi uniform from Transair
And Bob Pooley will be delighted to sell you one of his £800 swords to wear with it.
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The theory isn't that bad.
They like to make a big fuss about it but if you have a bit of technical background it really isn't an issue. There is nothing above age 16 school level stuff in it.
They like to make a big fuss about it but if you have a bit of technical background it really isn't an issue. There is nothing above age 16 school level stuff in it.