IMC RATING
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Some astonishing stuff in there about Hungary, Croatia and Turkey. All becoming dead ends for paperwork. Interesting that Hungary was never JAR-FCL. I was there in 2010 and spoke to some airline pilots who said the target date was Feb 2011.
Not apparently related to the IMCR however...
Not apparently related to the IMCR however...
Join Date: Jan 2012
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I can confirm that JAR FCL licence holders do not have to send their licence in to get ratings or qualifications added. The basis for this is that I did a night qualification last November, and when I sent in the paperwork, including logbook and application form but nothing else if I recall correctly, I did not send in the licence. I received about 12 working days later a new page for my licence book that was exactly the same as the current one but with the added "The holder can exercise the privileges of this licence at night," or words to that effect.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Essex, Innit
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Happily I passed the IMC skills test on Saturday & am now banging on with a night qual before the evenings get too light.
The suggestion of visiting the PLD take away office sounds like a good one & with a window of opportunity opening for me during which I can, before 8th April, get my 5 year licence renewal, have the IMC rating added, hand in my 2 year reval by experience form, possibly have the night restriction lifted & avoid being a guinea pig for the EASA changes I think I'll go for it.
Thanks for the input all.
The suggestion of visiting the PLD take away office sounds like a good one & with a window of opportunity opening for me during which I can, before 8th April, get my 5 year licence renewal, have the IMC rating added, hand in my 2 year reval by experience form, possibly have the night restriction lifted & avoid being a guinea pig for the EASA changes I think I'll go for it.
Thanks for the input all.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Well I gave them a call today and was (politely) informed that they endeavour to process applications within 10 working days and it's only day 7 for me...... 
And there is a bit of a backlog.....
I explained that I was keen to get it processed by 8th April but she said it really didn't matter about 8th April and anyway it's good enough that they received my application before 8th April
Nevertheless I would really like it processed before that date!!
She also said I could call in personally if I was in the Gatwick area but that's not likely in the near future
I said I would call back at the end of the week.
And there is a bit of a backlog.....
I explained that I was keen to get it processed by 8th April but she said it really didn't matter about 8th April and anyway it's good enough that they received my application before 8th April
Nevertheless I would really like it processed before that date!!
She also said I could call in personally if I was in the Gatwick area but that's not likely in the near future
I said I would call back at the end of the week.
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Last August I took my IR stuff down to Gatwick (rather than risking posting it) as it had to be in within 6 days as the exams were about to expire. (Talk about cutting it fine )
I got there 11.30hrs and the foyer was empty: not a soul waiting.
The nice lady checked through all the stuff for completeness, signatures etc, and asked me if I'd like to wait as they could do it there and then, but it would include a wait over their lunch break.
As it happened I couldn't wait as I had stuff planned so left it with them: Took 10 days to return it.
)I got there 11.30hrs and the foyer was empty: not a soul waiting.
The nice lady checked through all the stuff for completeness, signatures etc, and asked me if I'd like to wait as they could do it there and then, but it would include a wait over their lunch break.
As it happened I couldn't wait as I had stuff planned so left it with them: Took 10 days to return it.
Pompey till I die
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IMCr
So is everyone of the opinion it's NOT worth starting one now? I was going to take the written exam next week and then follow up with the flying test some 12 months later. That way I'd get my IMCr until 2014?
Or have I well and truly missed the boat? As far as I could see there was only further guidance due in June / July? Not an outright "to late" ?
Or have I well and truly missed the boat? As far as I could see there was only further guidance due in June / July? Not an outright "to late" ?
Join Date: Feb 2010
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The latest (potentially positive) twist in the saga ....
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...anges-air.html
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...anges-air.html
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So is everyone of the opinion it's NOT worth starting one now? I was going to take the written exam next week and then follow up with the flying test some 12 months later. That way I'd get my IMCr until 2014?
There are multiple ways of looking at this, and they depend on what sort of flying you do, you plan to do, how much value you attach to a given capability (legal or otherwise) and how much time you can allocate to collecting extra privileges. A lot of it hangs on the chances of becoming an outright owner, or a member of a syndicate around something capable.
Much has been written already...
If I was now where I was in early 2002, just finished my PPL and about to finish the IMCR, I would get on with it because (excluse me for being blunt
) a PPL without instrument privileges is as good as a chocolate teapot. If you cannot fly on instruments you cannot even fly to the UK/JAA VFR privileges i.e. 3km vis. You cannot even pop over to Le Touquet on a typical summer hazy day because there is no horizon. You probably also cannot radio navigate (GPS/VOR/DME) so getting anywhere past the nearest cowshed is a major navigational undertaking, worthy of membership of the Royal Institute of Navigation (and you get the free sock full of sand to stuff down your trousers).Legally, the IMCR allows you to plan a flight in reasonable wx, with the backup of being able to file an ILS airport as the main, or just the alternate.
I can hardly think of a better example than this week's wx - haze and more haze.
Even if nothing new happens, and we get the status quo, you will have the IMCR, and you will then have to re-do the 50hrs to do the JAA IR.
But we might get the CBM IR for which the IMCR training will count as a credit - not that anybody will pass the CAA IRT without some considerable training (I took > 20hrs).
You can knock off the IMCR this summer.
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by PompeyPaul
So is everyone of the opinion it's NOT worth starting one now? I was going to take the written exam next week and then follow up with the flying test some 12 months later. That way I'd get my IMCr until 2014?
Or have I well and truly missed the boat? As far as I could see there was only further guidance due in June / July? Not an outright "to late" ?
Or have I well and truly missed the boat? As far as I could see there was only further guidance due in June / July? Not an outright "to late" ?
If you get it after the 30th June, you can only add it to a CAA PPL, not an EASA PPL, so you can't use it in an EASA aircraft. Which probably makes it pointless as there aren't many IFR equipped aircraft which aren't EASA.
Worth phoning PLD to check however.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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I've just been to the CAA presentation at Shoreham this evening.
Nothing new there.
If you get your IMCR done before July 2012, it's yours "for ever". It will be added to a license as an IR (restricted). Being limited to Annex 2 aircraft (most of which can't fly IFR) it is a bit useless but the CAA said they are working on sorting this out with EASA...
The CAA seems to have produced a huge array of licenses and other papers in order to keep people flying Annex 2 stuff, in the face of the onslaught from EASA. They have reinstated the old CAA CPLs and ATPLs also, for that purpose.
Nothing new there.
If you get your IMCR done before July 2012, it's yours "for ever". It will be added to a license as an IR (restricted). Being limited to Annex 2 aircraft (most of which can't fly IFR) it is a bit useless but the CAA said they are working on sorting this out with EASA...
The CAA seems to have produced a huge array of licenses and other papers in order to keep people flying Annex 2 stuff, in the face of the onslaught from EASA. They have reinstated the old CAA CPLs and ATPLs also, for that purpose.
If you get your IMCR done before July 2012, it's yours "for ever". It will be added to a license as an IR (restricted). Being limited to Annex 2 aircraft (most of which can't fly IFR) it is a bit useless but the CAA said they are working on sorting this out with EASA...
The intention is that an IMC remains valid on a UK licence, but only for Annexe II aircraft. The man from the CAA said that anyone with an IMC rating pre-dating July 2012 would, when issued with an EASA licence, have an IR(restricted) tacked onto it enabling IMC rating privileges in UK airspace in EASA aircraft.
All subject to approval from an EASA standardisation committee, but the CAA guy seemed fairly optimistic.
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There was a handout (which I forgot to pick up) which might have been worth scanning...
The whole theme was that the CAA is doing all it can within its power to keep people flying, but EASA has set strict boundaries on discretion elsewhere. I am sure this is true, and historically it is very much the case that the CAA has grandfathered forward every imaginable piece of paper at every juncture (vis the "paid PPL instructor" to BCPL, etc) but of course they would say that anyway.
One interesting snippet was that while JAR-FCL papers become EASA papers automatically, non-JAR-FCL papers will all require a flight test with an examiner to get the corresponding EASA papers issued. So e.g. a NPPL to LAPL conversion (if there is one) will require a flight test. Same with a UK PPL to EASA PPL.
It thus suggests that those with non-JAR-FCL papers who can get them converted trivially to JAR-FCL before the July deadline, should do so now as this will avoid the flight with an examiner which they will get hit with after July.
On the IMCR, there are no concrete news over anything that's come out over the past year or two. Clearly Sivel has the CAA over a barrel on this and is making them sweat it out.
I hope I got that right
The whole theme was that the CAA is doing all it can within its power to keep people flying, but EASA has set strict boundaries on discretion elsewhere. I am sure this is true, and historically it is very much the case that the CAA has grandfathered forward every imaginable piece of paper at every juncture (vis the "paid PPL instructor" to BCPL, etc) but of course they would say that anyway.
One interesting snippet was that while JAR-FCL papers become EASA papers automatically, non-JAR-FCL papers will all require a flight test with an examiner to get the corresponding EASA papers issued. So e.g. a NPPL to LAPL conversion (if there is one) will require a flight test. Same with a UK PPL to EASA PPL.
It thus suggests that those with non-JAR-FCL papers who can get them converted trivially to JAR-FCL before the July deadline, should do so now as this will avoid the flight with an examiner which they will get hit with after July.
On the IMCR, there are no concrete news over anything that's come out over the past year or two. Clearly Sivel has the CAA over a barrel on this and is making them sweat it out.
I hope I got that right
Join Date: Feb 2011
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I find the ongoing confusion over the IMCr particularly worrying, having just spent my hard-earned cash on getting one - which I am keen to use and keep. This is looking less likely as I fly an "EASA" aircraft, on which a rating held on a separate UK licence (if we go down that route) would presumably not be valid - I am sceptical about the IR (restricted) until EASA actually commit to it.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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They will do everything to keep people flying but it will, to convert your CAA licence to EASA, cost money however you do it. CAA to JAR to EASA or CAA to EASA will cost with money going to the CAA either way. Is it written into Part FCL that converting from a national licence requires a flight test??? Not that I can find.
Are you sure this wasn't a CAA publicity stunt to fool you into thinking they are on your side when, in fact, they goldplate everything to screw you? They are driven by money, not safety anymore.
Are you sure this wasn't a CAA publicity stunt to fool you into thinking they are on your side when, in fact, they goldplate everything to screw you? They are driven by money, not safety anymore.
Peter, the handout was simply a hard copy of this pdf which you may already have seen.
I think you misinterpreted the "flight check for EASA papers" statement. He did say that EASA would want some sort of check flight but went on to say that a licence proficiency check would be acceptable. My interpretation is that if you're applying for an EASA licence & rating, you must already hold a valid rating in which case you will have done a flight with an instructor within the last 2 years. That flight can be considered an LPC, in which case you will get an EASA licence & rating.
The presentation is available to download here, the chap's 'presentation' consisted of reading out each powerpoint page to us so you get everything except the Q & A. The IMC stuff is p27.
I think you misinterpreted the "flight check for EASA papers" statement. He did say that EASA would want some sort of check flight but went on to say that a licence proficiency check would be acceptable. My interpretation is that if you're applying for an EASA licence & rating, you must already hold a valid rating in which case you will have done a flight with an instructor within the last 2 years. That flight can be considered an LPC, in which case you will get an EASA licence & rating.
The presentation is available to download here, the chap's 'presentation' consisted of reading out each powerpoint page to us so you get everything except the Q & A. The IMC stuff is p27.
Pompey till I die
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Not to bad
I find the ongoing confusion over the IMCr particularly worrying, having just spent my hard-earned cash on getting one - which I am keen to use and keep. This is looking less likely as I fly an "EASA" aircraft, on which a rating held on a separate UK licence (if we go down that route) would presumably not be valid - I am sceptical about the IR (restricted) until EASA actually commit to it.