Confused about new EASA regulations

[dodos9]

Hello everyone!
I have found out by accident that the JAA is changing into EASA and the changes will start in April and then in June. I have read quite a lot on this webiste: FAQ Answer | EASA | Safety Regulation

I found out about this when I was looking for some information about what would I have to do to convert my JAA licence obtained in, for example, Spain to the CAA licence. I was thinking of doing my PPL in a European country which offers better weather to do my PPL in a shorter period of time. Since what I was trying to find out seems irrelevant now because of all the changes, I don't have to worry about converting a license obtained in a another European country to CAA (correct me if I am wrong!)

Here are some quotes from the CAA website mentioned above, which I am not entirely sure about:

A JAA or JAR-FCL licence means a licence marked “Joint Aviation Authorities” that has been issued by a mutually recognised JAA member in accordance with JAR-FCL, and is not restricted to aircraft registered in any particular State.
The term “United Kingdom licence” as used by the CAA and in the Air Navigation Order means a licence issued by the CAA that is not a JAA/JAR-FCL licence and is not a National Private Pilot’s Licence (NPPL). When the European regulations are fully implemented, United Kingdom licences will not be valid for the piloting of EASA aircraft.

Especially the last sentence I am not sure about. Does that mean that when EASA comes into place, there won't be any restrictions on where the aircraft have to be registered, so you can fly it, if you have an EASA licence? So, if I will get my PPL in Spain, I will not have to worry about ANY conversion AT ALL in order to fly any aircraft which is registered in a ANY of the EASA's Member States?

You may apply for an EASA licence for each category of aircraft; but you may only hold one EASA licence for each category. All EASA licences issued to an individual must be from the same EASA Member State, which must be the State that holds the medical records for that individual. A licence holder may change their State of Licence issue, but to do so they must have their medical records transferred to the new State and all of their EASA licences reissued by that State.
As a medical certificate must be obtained before flying solo, the State of Licence issue for an individual will be determined, at least initially, by where that first Medical Certificate is obtained.

This sort of confirms what I said about the first quote, however I don't understand what difference it makes in which country you have been issued with your EASA PPL if you can fly with no restrictions anyway (again, correct me if I misunderstood this).

EASA licences will be issued by the Competent Authorities of the EASA Member States (the CAA in the UK). No EASA Part-FCL licences can be issued before 8th April 2012. Because of the nature of the changes to EU regulations and the consequent administrative changes that must take place, the individual National Aviation Authorities may delay the implementation of the Annexes of the Aircrew Regulation. Having considered this, the CAA has decided to begin issuing EASA Part-FCL licences from 1st July 2012.

What exactly do these dates mean? If I decide to do my PPL abroad, it will definitely be after 8th April 2012 and I will probably have it issued after 1st July 2012. Is that a good or a bad thing? I understand it as a good thing in my case, because this way I will not be issued with a Spanish JAA licence, which then I would have to convert to EASA PPL, but I will be issued with EASA straight away if I am to get it after 1st July 2012. Is my thinking correct?



Thank you very much in advance

dodos9

[WestWind1950]

you are worrying too much...

With the present JAR-PPL a pilot may already fly within Europe since they are recognised by each European country. This licence will automatically become a EASA ppl after April 8. You can continue your present training and after April 8th you'll receive the new licence. The CAA licence is only for the UK, it is NOT a JAR or EASA licence (thus for you of no interest).

Normally the country of residence issues the licence. So if you live in Spain, the Spanish authorities issue it. But if your home is the UK, then I think you may have to change it over to the CAA registry (I'm not sure 100% myself here... I'll have to look it up myself).

In your case, continue training for your JAR-PPL and don't worry (yet) about what happens after April 8th. There will be a transition period for some already issued licences, which may be the other dates that confuse you.

[ShyTorque]

JAR licences automatically become EASA licences in due course.

[jez d]

The potential hornet's nest here is the transfer of medical from one Member State to another, should an individual wish to switch training between EASA countries.

As I understand it, if the OP's initial medical is issued in Spain and at a later date he then wants to train for a further licence in the UK, the UK CAA will require the medical to first be translated into English by the AME then passed to the Spanish aviation authority for endorsement before being forwarded to the UK CAA.

Clearly this won't be a free service and leaves me wondering how much all of this will cost and how long it will take. With one doctor and two aviation authorities involved I assume it could amount to three separate fees.

[LH2]

Originally Posted by jez d

As I understand it, if the OP's initial medical is issued in Spain and at a later date he then wants to train for a further licence in the UK, the UK CAA will require the medical to first be translated into English by the AME then passed to the Spanish aviation authority for endorsement before being forwarded to the UK CAA.

Current JAA medicals are issued in English, possibly with a national language translation alongside. They are acceptable across national authorities, with the exception that the CAA used to insist that the initial Class I be done by them (whether they were on solid legal ground I don't know) and certain non-conformance issues with French medicals--which I think have been solved now.

Of course, what's going to happen post-JAA is anyone's guess.

[SergeD]

France will always find a way It does not matter what EASA do.

[dodos9]

Thanks for your replies guys!

It is much clearer now and I don't have to worry about it since it will become EASA licence anyway.

Thanks a lot

dodos9

[Dg800]

This sort of confirms what I said about the first quote, however I don't understand what difference it makes in which country you have been issued with your EASA PPL if you can fly with no restrictions anyway (again, correct me if I misunderstood this).

I'm not 100% sure but I think that if your JAR license is issued in Spain, then you'll have to do everything such as renewals, endorsements etc. through the Spanish CAA. I don't think the British CAA will be able to do anything else besides automatically recognizing your license's validiy, a higer level of intra-state integration is probably still a only a chimera.

So, if you plan to continue training in the UK you might have to eventually change the state of issuance of your license. The process "should" be pretty simple and straightforward, as it already is a JAR license. Dunno if it's going to be inexpensive as well...

Cheers,

DG800

[richs3]

Whilst on this topic, when the CAA wrote to all PPL holders they sent a link to a very indepth document available on the CAA site. In here I seemed to remember minimum hours for conversion to the EASA equivalent (seem to remember this being around the 70 hrs mark). I've tried on a number of occasions to find this statement to no avail, can anyone point me in the right direction or more importantly explain the consequences for anyone who had not flown that many hours?

[Whopity]

What exactly are you trying to convert?

[WorkingHard]

"When the European regulations are fully implemented, United Kingdom licences will not be valid for the piloting of EASA aircraft. "

Can anyone shed any light on this sentence please? Does it mean that a CAA PPL is only valid for piloting and aircraft that is on the BRITISH register and then only within the UK? I thought all aircraft, in whichever country they were registered in EU land, were an EASA aircraft. Have I misunderstood?
Thanks

[Whopity]

Basically that is correct however; you will not be confined to the UK unless its a Permit aircraft which needs the permission of another State. You would find it worthwhile looking at the information on the CAA website where it is all explained in detail.

[Maoraigh1]

unless its a Permit aircraft which needs the permission of another State.

If another state allows our permit Jodel permission to fly in its airspace, I will also be asking it to either accept my UK only PPL, or allow me to fly it on an EASA PPL.

[Whopity]

You will be able to fly it on which ever licence you like, both will be valid.

[Whopity]

You will be able to fly it on which ever licence you like, both will be rendered valid by the UK CAA.

[Prop swinger]

richs3,

The document you refer to can be downloaded from this page.

WorkingHard,

"When the European regulations are fully implemented, United Kingdom licences will not be valid for the piloting of EASA aircraft. "

Can anyone shed any light on this sentence please? Does it mean that a CAA PPL is only valid for piloting and aircraft that is on the BRITISH register and then only within the UK?

No, that is not the interpretation. A PA28 or Cessna on the G register is still an EASA aircraft & will require an EASA licence, even in UK airspace.

You will only be able to use a CAA licence in Annexe II aircraft (see document from page linked to above.) I have no idea whether anyone will be allowed to fly an Annex II aircraft outside of the UK with a non-EASA licence. Microlight & NPPL(M) will probably be OK.

[Whopity]

I have no idea whether anyone will be allowed to fly an Annex II aircraft outside of the UK with a non-EASA licence.

UK licences that are ICAO licences will remain ICAO licences and will continued to be recognised anywhere in the World. At least EASA can't mess with that. It is the aircraft that may be more limiting as to where you can go with it.

[flybymike]

UK licences that are ICAO licences will remain ICAO licences and will continued to be recognised anywhere in the World.

If this were the case one wonders why EASA started this whole shenanigans in the first place...

[WorkingHard]

Now I have to say this is becoming a complete farce and with so many different answers how are we all going to remain legal? Let us suppose I have a C182 registered in France but have a (non expiring) UK PPL. Can I fly legally any where in EU land without the need for an EU licence?

[Prop swinger]

Let us suppose I have a C182 registered in France but have a (non expiring) UK PPL. Can I fly [it] legally any where in EU land without the need for an EU licence?

No.

Read the document. A Cessna 172 has an ordinary C. of A. & is therefore an EASA aircraft - an EASA licence will be needed to fly it. Only aircraft that meet the Annexe II criteria are exempt from the requirement for an EASA licence.