ppr do you do it?
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ppr do you do it?
Now please hold back before people get heated here..
What i mean is PPR at some airfields is strict and others are shocked that you bothered to call..
Question is: do you actually bother or just turn up and request airfield information and lay her down anyway?
I understand that at some airfields you would be stupid not to and others we all know couldnt care less.
For my solo qxc i didnt call anyone or is it something my instructor would have done?
What i mean is PPR at some airfields is strict and others are shocked that you bothered to call..
Question is: do you actually bother or just turn up and request airfield information and lay her down anyway?
I understand that at some airfields you would be stupid not to and others we all know couldnt care less.
For my solo qxc i didnt call anyone or is it something my instructor would have done?
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I think it wise to always call ahead to any airfield you're planning to fly into. That way you'll get the latest information on the runway state, weather conditions, joining procedures, fuel, parking etc. A quick call takes only a couple of minutes and helps you plan your way in.
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Your instructor will have done this for you.
If you PPR with your details the airfield will be expecting you. It works like a verbal flight plan. Well worth while especially if you are flying over hostile terrain.
If you don't turn up overdue proceedures will be initiated.
D.O.
If you PPR with your details the airfield will be expecting you. It works like a verbal flight plan. Well worth while especially if you are flying over hostile terrain.
If you don't turn up overdue proceedures will be initiated.
D.O.
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I think the answer is that the reasons for PPR vary.
It may be a private field, in which case the owner is simply entitled to require PPR absolutely. It's his private property. Most of them are in any case operating without a planning permission to have to keep it under the 28 day rule, which means keeping an ultra low profile for 10 years minimum.
It may be a very busy airfield which has serious parking issues. If 10 planes all turn up they may have nowhere to park.
Or it could be like what they have in Bournemouth which is a man in a portacabin who has got a concession from the airport to pick up landing fees, and to hand out PPR numbers. He also likes to tell people that they have to go via him even if going to one of the based maintenance companies, etc. ATC there rarely if ever ask for the PPR number.
Across Europe, many airports are PPR but many are not. Generally the big H24 ones (e.g. Prague) are not PPR. The UK is unusual in that Gatwick etc are PPR but that is because the "management" there has decided to push out GA totally, by giving the handling conecssion to Harrods and Signature who both charge the same rates - about £400
You should always contact an airport before flying there. Saves all kinds of hassle. Ask about opening hours, fuel, prices, etc.
It may be a private field, in which case the owner is simply entitled to require PPR absolutely. It's his private property. Most of them are in any case operating without a planning permission to have to keep it under the 28 day rule, which means keeping an ultra low profile for 10 years minimum.
It may be a very busy airfield which has serious parking issues. If 10 planes all turn up they may have nowhere to park.
Or it could be like what they have in Bournemouth which is a man in a portacabin who has got a concession from the airport to pick up landing fees, and to hand out PPR numbers. He also likes to tell people that they have to go via him even if going to one of the based maintenance companies, etc. ATC there rarely if ever ask for the PPR number.
Across Europe, many airports are PPR but many are not. Generally the big H24 ones (e.g. Prague) are not PPR. The UK is unusual in that Gatwick etc are PPR but that is because the "management" there has decided to push out GA totally, by giving the handling conecssion to Harrods and Signature who both charge the same rates - about £400
You should always contact an airport before flying there. Saves all kinds of hassle. Ask about opening hours, fuel, prices, etc.
Look in Pooleys / AFE VFR guide / national AIP (whichever your preference is to use) - each airfield should list whether the airfield requires PPR or not, and if so when.
Most cases, then just phone the number given and the whole process takes about a minute.
G
Most cases, then just phone the number given and the whole process takes about a minute.
G
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Is there any good reason for NOT calling?
I regularly fly to airfields noted as "strictly PPR", some really seem to want you to phone before you go, others are happy with just the radio call.
Do you call ahead to your destination when you drive a car to a privately-owned public-use parking lot?
I really see no reason not to phone, it's just part of the system, live with it, don't whinge! And it maybe applies to 1 in 3 airfields so there are plenty of places you can just drop into if you forgot.
G
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What i mean is PPR at some airfields is strict and others are shocked that you bothered to call..
Question is: do you actually bother or just turn up and request airfield information and lay her down anyway?
Question is: do you actually bother or just turn up and request airfield information and lay her down anyway?
That being said, PPR is clearly being abused in Europe, being in place at many an airfield for no good reason at all. Remember the Jersey nonsense earlier ?
mandatory fuss serving no end
It would be good to put a reason for the PPR in the AIP or on the aerodrome website if it applies.
Good reasons I've come across are
- aerodrome movements limited to 500 a year (noise abatement or other environmental concerns); PP given via an easy online booking system.
- aerodrome is inside a military base and the MP's like to know what to expect if you land outside ATS hours.
- aerodrome is very busy and you get a 20 minute arrival slot
Bad reasons for a PPR are
- airport operator wants to "brief" you on procedures (Put them in the AIP or on your website, you cretin !)
- no reason at all : PPR is given by the aerodrome pub waitress (really !) making no record whatsoever of your permission request
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I have heard of cases where pilots have flown to an airfield without calling in ahead, only to be told on the radio NOT to land because the runway is being worked on! If you made sure you had enough fuel to fly elsewhere, then fine, otherwise you may be in trouble.
In another case an airshow was going on and a landing was refused (airfield was listed PPR in the AIP). The pilot complained to the authorities (and was "nicely" told how wrong he was)!
peterh337 listed a number of other good reasons...
In another case an airshow was going on and a landing was refused (airfield was listed PPR in the AIP). The pilot complained to the authorities (and was "nicely" told how wrong he was)!
peterh337 listed a number of other good reasons...
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I have heard of cases where pilots have flown to an airfield without calling in ahead, only to be told on the radio NOT to land because the runway is being worked on!
(airfield was listed PPR in the AIP). The pilot complained to the authorities (and was "nicely" told how wrong he was)!
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I can never see any reason not to call. It costs me hardly anything, takes me hardly any time, I might learn something to my advantage and every tower has always been very appreciative that I have taken the time to be polite.
Avoid imitations
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That would be in the NOTAMS for the aerodrome, right ?
If it's not licensed, probably not.
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I only call if it is required in the AIP, or if I have a particular reason (grass runway condition for performance calculations, snow/ice coverage, limited parking, fuel availability, etc..) to do so
Otherwise there is absolutely no reason to bother them. Think about what would happen, especially at busier fields, if everybody called every single airport before every single flight
Otherwise there is absolutely no reason to bother them. Think about what would happen, especially at busier fields, if everybody called every single airport before every single flight
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It may be slightly inconvenient for the airfield to call them but I alway get a jolly person and I've never regretted it.
One airfield I rang told me they were freshly closed due to a wheels up landing blocking the runway , I replanned. One I didn't ring ( Alderney) had no fuel due to the fact they had just poured it all into the clubhouse- that was very inconvenient. And the worst one I rang 3 times ( duxford) to be sure I would get in which they affirmed then were too busy to let me in when I arrived ( I wrote them a strong letter)
I always ring... But that's just me.
One airfield I rang told me they were freshly closed due to a wheels up landing blocking the runway , I replanned. One I didn't ring ( Alderney) had no fuel due to the fact they had just poured it all into the clubhouse- that was very inconvenient. And the worst one I rang 3 times ( duxford) to be sure I would get in which they affirmed then were too busy to let me in when I arrived ( I wrote them a strong letter)
I always ring... But that's just me.
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I always ring... But that's just me.
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To be honest ive not long passed, done a few "family sightseeing trips" but thats it.
I guess id feel a bit strange/odd asking if im allowed to visit for the first time but after that ill be ok (maybe through fear of being spoken to like an idiot for doing it)!
Its the right and sensible thing to do so thats exactly what i will do... Just hear some people dont bother and wanted to put the feelers out for peoples thoughts and to see if its a common thing to call and be rejected etc
Thanks for all your posts guys
I guess id feel a bit strange/odd asking if im allowed to visit for the first time but after that ill be ok (maybe through fear of being spoken to like an idiot for doing it)!
Its the right and sensible thing to do so thats exactly what i will do... Just hear some people dont bother and wanted to put the feelers out for peoples thoughts and to see if its a common thing to call and be rejected etc
Thanks for all your posts guys