ppr do you do it?
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: GLASGOW
Freda - cannot disagree, and if Pooleys, or indeed any other publication states - PPR required, then fine. I agree that it only manners to co-operate and seek PPR.
Filing a flight plan also can take care of the PPR.
I think the issue comes when out VFR flying, and you call up to join, and there is an issue with PPR. I do not see much of an issue from the airfileds viewpoint.
Filing a flight plan also can take care of the PPR.
I think the issue comes when out VFR flying, and you call up to join, and there is an issue with PPR. I do not see much of an issue from the airfileds viewpoint.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 407
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From: UK
maxred, I agree.
I don't think I've ever been refused an over-the-air PPR (even if they've grumbled a bit), but I probably wouldn't ask if were unfamiliar with the field and I knew they were very busy on the radio.
I don't think I've ever been refused an over-the-air PPR (even if they've grumbled a bit), but I probably wouldn't ask if were unfamiliar with the field and I knew they were very busy on the radio.
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Belgium
How about: "Because I say so, and it's my $odding airfield."
Putting a good reason in the AIP for a PPR might help in improving the customers' (incoming pilots') understanding and encourage them to participate in the better functioning of the airfield.
I'm not encouraging pilots to fly into a PPR field without obtaining prior permission. That is indeed poor manners (or even poor airmanship). I'm merely saying that, if two airfields would serve my purpose, and one is PPR for no good reason, I will give my custom to the other.
I wonder if there's a correlation between those who don't do checks, and those who object to phoning for PPR?
Filing a flight plan also can take care of the PPR.
Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Not far from the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy in the Orion Arm.
PPR
Code:
Now please hold back before people get heated here.. What i mean is PPR at some airfields is strict and others are shocked that you bothered to call.. Question is: do you actually bother or just turn up and request airfield information and lay her down anyway? I understand that at some airfields you would be stupid not to and others we all know couldnt care less. For my solo qxc i didnt call anyone or is it something my instructor would have done?
Some time ago a light aircraft went down in a forest somewhere in dear old England and was not found for several months - just a thought. In some places - not filing PPR will put you in deep s--t and you may not get permission to land.
Also, whilst flying out to an airfield out in the bundhu - if you don`t PPR and they decide to go out and do the week`s shopping and you prang on landing - as it was strictly PPR only, then you have only yourself to blame when there is no one there to sort it all out for you - police, fire, ambulance, that sort of thing.
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 27th January 2012 at 15:09. Reason: Misspelt the word "do"
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
When PPR is written into the OPS manual or safety management manual at a licenced airfield clearly the airfield operators have shackled themselves with the requirement.
This may have been inherited from a previous operator. So, How easy is it to recind this requirement? Was it a CAA "suggestion" (as they do
) I know of other changes that our local airfield would like but the cost of paperwork/surveys etc. has made them unrealistic to carry out.
I do know that the decision to require PPR is not there to annoy people. As little as 15 miles north of our field communication can be difficult. In our case PPR is in place to provide a joined up service to alert search and rescue.
One other small point. Fuel deliveries are not notamed and can delay you getting fuel for over 2 hours for avgas and 5 hours for Jet A1.
D.O.
This may have been inherited from a previous operator. So, How easy is it to recind this requirement? Was it a CAA "suggestion" (as they do
) I know of other changes that our local airfield would like but the cost of paperwork/surveys etc. has made them unrealistic to carry out.I do know that the decision to require PPR is not there to annoy people. As little as 15 miles north of our field communication can be difficult. In our case PPR is in place to provide a joined up service to alert search and rescue.
One other small point. Fuel deliveries are not notamed and can delay you getting fuel for over 2 hours for avgas and 5 hours for Jet A1.
D.O.
Joined: Nov 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Wildest Surrey
Maxred: filing a flight plan certainly does NOT 'take care' of PPR.
If the airfield is unlicenced for instance, you must still get permission on advance to use the aerodrome before you file a flight plan.
I work part time at an unlicenced airfield where the runway is given away for non-aviation use for long periods, but the airport operator will try to fit you in when they can. If you turnup without having been granted permission to land, you will probably find the owner/operator denies permission for you to use his land.
If the airfield is unlicenced for instance, you must still get permission on advance to use the aerodrome before you file a flight plan.
I work part time at an unlicenced airfield where the runway is given away for non-aviation use for long periods, but the airport operator will try to fit you in when they can. If you turnup without having been granted permission to land, you will probably find the owner/operator denies permission for you to use his land.
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Wildest Surrey
Don't overfill: you don't appear to realise that unless the airfield has a 'Public Use' licence, you must get permission to land there. OK some airfields grant this on the RTF, but many don't, it's up to the aerodrome authority.
Many airfields have an 'Ordinary' licence which requires PPR and gives their local planning authority the power to impose the condition that the aerodrome authority must know in advance who is going to use the aerodrome.
Many airfields have an 'Ordinary' licence which requires PPR and gives their local planning authority the power to impose the condition that the aerodrome authority must know in advance who is going to use the aerodrome.
Joined: Dec 2011
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filing a flight plan certainly does NOT 'take care' of PPR.
I think the most likely answer lies in airport management being one of the last bastions of trade union power and restrictive practices. I have been told, face to face, that the airport ops office will not discuss anything with the Customs people (down the corridor) or with anybody else, and the tower (which gets flight plans addressed to xxxxZTZX, IIRC) is not going to pass them to anybody else "downstairs" either.
Flight plans could easily serve for Customs PNR which - across Europe - is the most common issue with preflight notification. But as I say the airport staff refuse to operate that way.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 500
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From: London
One reason for complying with a PPR requirement is in order to comply with Rule 40 of the Rules of the Air
40. An aircraft shall not taxi on the apron or the manoeuvring area of an aerodrome without the
permission of either—
(a) the person in charge of the aerodrome; or
(b) the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit notified as being on watch at the aerodrome.
(b) does not necessarily mean you can get permission via the radio if an airfield is notified as PPR by telephone.
Last year the CAA prosecuted a pilot for landing at an airfield notified as PPR by telephone for allegedly failing to get the necessary telephone permission. Luckily he was found not guilty but was put to considerable time and trouble in having to fight his case.
40. An aircraft shall not taxi on the apron or the manoeuvring area of an aerodrome without the
permission of either—
(a) the person in charge of the aerodrome; or
(b) the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit notified as being on watch at the aerodrome.
(b) does not necessarily mean you can get permission via the radio if an airfield is notified as PPR by telephone.
Last year the CAA prosecuted a pilot for landing at an airfield notified as PPR by telephone for allegedly failing to get the necessary telephone permission. Luckily he was found not guilty but was put to considerable time and trouble in having to fight his case.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
They run it like a mini international airport - without the commercial traffic - bar the Islander doing the Island run.
As I understand the historical situation, they saw a previous manager / leaseholder making a good profit and turfed him out, so they could make a profit for themselves. Unfortunately, most councils don't know how to run airfields for a profit and the employees don't really give a toss either. No-one even came out from the building when I went there last time. Mind you, it was raining.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
I agree, I almost always make a simple phone call beforehand, with one or two recent exceptions, due to an airborne change of plan. Even then we made a radio call on a previous leg to check we could land and refuel on our way back. I've been phoning airfields in advance, PPR or not, for well over 30 years now and have never been made to feel that the call was unwelcome. In some cases, a phone call has prevented severe inconvenience (such as no fuel available for the next two days due to a u/s fuel installation).
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
When in the UK, and 'pottering' around Yorkshire and the North, although I have an idea of the weather and conditions in all the areas i'm planning to operate I often don't decide where I want to go until airborne and done some manouevering and practice.
I call up on the air-ground frequencies and ask for joining instructions if they can accept me. Never been refused yet, and if I was I'd just take it on the chin and continue to the next place.
No real reason for not asking PPR, and on a longer distance route I'd probably be much more prepared. But in the local area most of my usual bacon buttie haunts have no expectation for you to call PPR despite it being in the Pooleys.
I call up on the air-ground frequencies and ask for joining instructions if they can accept me. Never been refused yet, and if I was I'd just take it on the chin and continue to the next place.
No real reason for not asking PPR, and on a longer distance route I'd probably be much more prepared. But in the local area most of my usual bacon buttie haunts have no expectation for you to call PPR despite it being in the Pooleys.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
If you're only "pottering" locally for recreation, the weather is good and have plenty of fuel and no real destination, apart from getting home again before dark, I see no issues with that at all. 
But I never fly to potter around the skies. Actually going to a particular destination, on a timescale, for a particular purpose, (in typical UK weather) is a very different kettle of fish.
But I never fly to potter around the skies. Actually going to a particular destination, on a timescale, for a particular purpose, (in typical UK weather) is a very different kettle of fish.
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Hampshire
My local airfield, Lasham, is PPR for good reason. It is a very busy gliding site (10,000+ movements PA) using both aerotow and winch simultaniously. We also regularly have movements of 757s, 767s etc.
We are not licenced and the chap on the radio is probly standing at the launchpoint with a hand held radio so even if he can hear your call you probably wont hear his reply until you are in the circuit.
Overhead joins are not recommended as we often have winch cables to well over 2000ft
The main runway is not normally used by the gliders. Circuits in both directions are normal landing on the grass the apropriate side of the runway.
There is a use for PPR
Nigel
We are not licenced and the chap on the radio is probly standing at the launchpoint with a hand held radio so even if he can hear your call you probably wont hear his reply until you are in the circuit.
Overhead joins are not recommended as we often have winch cables to well over 2000ft
The main runway is not normally used by the gliders. Circuits in both directions are normal landing on the grass the apropriate side of the runway.
There is a use for PPR
Nigel
