Icao Language Proficiency Check

[NazgulAir]

... in practice no one asks you for a piece of paper if you make the proper calls in the proper language.

It's a bit difficult to get LPF examns in the UK, but it is easy to learn the R/T phrases you are likely to encounter.
Have a look here, here and the official guide here,

[dublinpilot]

Thank you achimha. That is the first time that anyone has been able to provide a reference for this.

I'm not quite sure that it's 100% correct, but it's close enough that I wouldn't want to have the argument with a French official!

By not quite sure it's 100% I mean that it states "in airspace requiring use of the French language".

Is the airspace around these aerodromes 'airspace requiring the use of French language'? I think it's debatable, after all there is no boundary with the rest of the airspace around it. I also don't think that it requires the use of any language as you can arrive non-radio.

However I accept that it's close enough that I wouldn't want to have the conversation with a French official

So thank you for providing the reference. It's appreciated to finally get a proper answer on this.

dp

[dublinpilot]

This conversation naturally leads onto the question, about where can you get this test, which doesn't go into your licence, to show that you've got level 4 French?

[patowalker]

Hm. Hm hm hhhmmmmmm. Curious to learn how "lousy" these experiences actually were. Can't help wondering you were perhaps too lazy and/or too stupid to learn even the basics of a language you could easily have known would be required, and are pushing the blame as far away as you can.
Ever imagined how lousy the experience would be for a French-only speaker venturing into merry old England?

Hmm, being a bit harsh there Jan. Are you suggesting WestWind is a monolingual Brit? You might be mistaken.

[mad_jock]

Ever imagined how lousy the experience would be for a French-only speaker venturing into merry old England

Never mind england the buggers have got up to the north of scotland and it plays bloody havok with a procedural approach controller. Not with standing all this bollocks with the totally stupid setup with have now with the services in class G. Nobody has a sodding clue unless they are UK based.

westwind can speak english like a goodun, had a few glasses of wine with her and pinky. And her german is way better then mine.

[abgd]

Hm. Hm hm hhhmmmmmm. Curious to learn how "lousy" these experiences actually were. Can't help wondering you were perhaps too lazy and/or too stupid to learn even the basics of a language you could easily have known would be required, and are pushing the blame as far away as you can.

Off the top of my head, I know a few dozen people who speak three languages, maybe half a dozen who speak six or more (of which at least four are likely to be extinct), and only two who speak ten or more.

Seeing that fewer and fewer big airports welcome GA, this idea that you should learn a language for every country you plan to fly through seems... fatal.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Are you suggesting WestWind is a monolingual Brit?

I had no wish to suggest anything. I did seem to recognise a mentality I have encountered in British culture*, but elsewhere too, which is to simply not wonder beforehand, but to take it for granted that your own language is understood and spoken universally. And yes, such behaviour does tend to make me deviate from my usual pleasant tone and good manners.

*"never got beyond Calais myself. Bloody place. You must shout to get yourself understood" (as remembered from Dylan Thomas, Rebbecca's daughters)

[Jan Olieslagers]

that you should learn a language for every country you plan to fly through

To me it seems like normal flight preparation to check for an a/d's useability before flying there - which includes making sure I either can talk to the locals, on the radio AND on the ground, or I won't need to. Just as essential as checking runway length, fuel availability &c.

Concerning en route R/T, I think English should be available at least in all of Western Europe, though the quality might be disappointing in some southern countries as has been reported on these pages.

[WestWind1950]

Seeing that fewer and fewer big airports welcome GA, this idea that you should learn a language for every country you plan to fly through seems... fatal.

No one is saying that you need to speak the language of EVERY country you visit! English IS the universal aviation language and thus should be spoken well enough to be understood in every country. There are enough airfields, especially big ones, in all countries where English is spoken, so you just have to avoid the other fields where it isn't. What is so difficult with that?

And JO, I actually did say hello, good-bye and thank you in French, just to be courteous. Maybe THAT was my mistake?

[Jan Olieslagers]

It may have been. As we say here: "give them a finger and they'll take an arm". It may have been assumed that, since you could and did say "Bonjour", the rest would be equally self-evident.

[abgd]

In the air... being able to communicate is a safety issue.

On the ground... Seems to me that there's rarely likely to be any urgency. You can probably pay your bills just by hand waving. Failing that, in UK hospitals, there are two methods for communicating with foreign language patients. The first is simply to look everything up in a phrasebook, which has a few dozen phrases in a few dozen languages including, as I recall, Quechua. They're medically oriented, so obviously, you would have to change a few of the phrases such as 'point to the pain' to 'yes, we have no avgas'. But it shouldn't be that big a job.

For more complex issues, there's a 'language line' so that if you have a patient who only speaks Slovak, for example, you dial a number and you get an interpreter, any time of day. It's moderately expensive, but it's already 'there'. I doubt the average interpreter would know what a magneto is, but then they would be unlikely to know what a spleen is either - it's normally possible to circumlocute.

I understand where you're coming from regarding British insularity, and perhaps it would be fairer if Esperanto were to have become the international language of aviation. Perhaps if Santos-Dumont had flown just a few months earlier, it would be French.

I wouldn't mind - personally I find R/T akin to learning a whole new language anyway. Grammatical rules are somewhat different from standard English. A few words are pronounced differently to aid clarity. Quite a lot of the vocab is mildly archaic.

But as you say, en-route is already English - so I don't immediately see the problem using English in the circuit either.

[abgd]

There are enough airfields, especially big ones, in all countries where English is spoken, so you just have to avoid the other fields where it isn't. What is so difficult with that?

I've never flown abroad and I'm only part way through my PPL, so I'm aware I'm speaking from a position of relative - even extreme - ignorance. However, in the UK at least, more and more large airports are charging huge landing fees, so the trend seems to be to GA using smaller strips and leaving the bigger airports to Easyjet and friends. I don't always feel welcome even at my home airport.

If you were to combine that trend with an increase in language restrictions on smaller airfields, then it seems to me inevitable that it would eventually become inconvenient to tour abroad. Obviously it's manageable if only a few airfields are 'French only' or 'German only', but there must be a threshold somewhere where it starts to become a significant restriction.

[patowalker]

I understand where you're coming from regarding British insularity, and perhaps it would be fairer if Esperanto were to have become the international language of aviation. Perhaps if Santos-Dumont had flown just a few months earlier, it would be French.

You mean Portuguese, surely.

Those worried about visiting FR only fields, might want to spend some time listening to these radio calls. http://www.francoflyers.org/french-radio-calls.htm

[abgd]

I'm not sure... As I recall he built most if not all of his airships and aeroplanes in France. His father was French, and he seemed to give lots of his aircraft French names. I'm willing to believe his oaths were in Portuguese whenever he crashed.

Nice link - thanks.

[Rod1]

“When you fly to France and want to land at an aerodrome where there is no tower or outside business hours, usually the official unicom language is French. Legally, one would have to get a ICAO language proficiency entry for French as well.”

The LAA have a meeting with the DGAC coming up and I have asked them to check this out. I will report back when I have more.

Rod1

[dublinpilot]

Rod,

Could I also suggest if the answer comes back that you must have this French proficency cert, that they are asked how pilots with non-French licences go about getting such a cert?

dp

[achimha]

@dublinpilot: I talked to the German CAA (LBA) today and they confirmed that there is no LBA accredited organization that could issue a French language certificate at this point. I then asked if they accepted a DGAC test and add the relevant entry to my PPL. They didn't know and asked me to submit the question in written form which I have done. Let's see what they come up with. In my fax, I told them that I would expect the French certificate to be written in French...

Reading the French law, I noticed that they do not insist on pilots having the French ICAO level stamped in their license. If you pass the level 4 exam in France and carry a document that confirms this, you should be fine.

[achimha]

I just received a written statement from the German CAA (LBA) confirming that in case I present a French language certificate level 6 issued by the DGAC, they would add the respective level to my PPL.

Level 4 and level 5 are not possible to add.

Does anyone have such a DGAC certificate and could tell me if it's issued in French only or with an English translation? The LBA only accepts documents in German and English.

[FlyingLapinou]

Update:

I have just been talking to the "Inspecteur de Surveillance" at the Bureau des Licences de Bordeaux-Mérignac, DAC/SO (Direction de l'Aviation Civile/Sud Ouest). Part of the DGAC, obviously.

Based on Annex 1 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation (eleventh edition, July 2011), Chapter 1, Paragraph 1.2.9, "Language Proficiency", sub-para. 1.2.9.1, he was quite categoric that pilots who use FR-only aerodromes flying on a non-French licence must have proof of French language proficiency (Level 4 minimum) entered on their licence.

1.2.9.1 Aeroplane, airship, helicopter and powered-lift pilots and those flight navigators who are required to use the radio telephone aboard an aircraft shall demonstrate the ability to speak and understand the language used for radiotelephony communications.

You would be ok to use airports with ATC, of course, and you would apparently also be ok to use any airport not specifically classed as "FR-only" (you will find this information at the top of the visual approach chart).

His advice: Please be aware that if pilots use FR-only airfields without proof of French language proficiency and run into the GTA (Gendarmerie des Transports Aériens) they may encounter serious problems. In the worst case, they could find they are not allowed to leave again by air.

[WestWind1950]

@FlyingLapinou.... thanks for the clarification, which happens to verify exactly what I tried to point out already.