Diamond DA42V1
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Diamond DA42V1
Some new developments over at Diamond...
Diamond Aircraft :: DA42 V1 crosses the 200 knots speed barrier
> 200kts true, obviously under unrealistically ideal conditions.
But still - if the improved aerodynamics & prop alone brings an extra 5-10 kts in ordinary use, that's definitely a plus, and finally puts the DA42 Austro into serious running with parts of the competition.
Also nice to see Diamond investing resources on actively improving the aircraft fundamentals.
Diamond Aircraft :: DA42 V1 crosses the 200 knots speed barrier
> 200kts true, obviously under unrealistically ideal conditions.
But still - if the improved aerodynamics & prop alone brings an extra 5-10 kts in ordinary use, that's definitely a plus, and finally puts the DA42 Austro into serious running with parts of the competition.
Also nice to see Diamond investing resources on actively improving the aircraft fundamentals.
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I suppose that's their little joke.
The DA42 is the one aircraft that could convince me to get a twin rating (well, practical aircraft - would be fun to get some DC3 time). If they finally have a viable powerplant and they've pushed the speed up a bit, then (for me anyway) this would be just about the perfect personal plane.
n5296s
The DA42 is the one aircraft that could convince me to get a twin rating (well, practical aircraft - would be fun to get some DC3 time). If they finally have a viable powerplant and they've pushed the speed up a bit, then (for me anyway) this would be just about the perfect personal plane.
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200kt TAS at FL180, ISA, is only about 147kt IAS.
The stock DA42 TDi will do that much at low levels so it's just a case of having enough turbo boost at FL180.
The usual plane salesmen's trick
I've been up to FL200 in the TB20 and can tell you that breathing at FL180+ is a full time job with a cannula. It's OK but you need to monitor passengers fairly carefully. Masks are fine but you get through an awful lot of gas.
I wonder what the ceiling is. That is really more important. If it does 147kt IAS at FL180 then it should go to at least FL250 and that is a really useful capability because you can outclimb most warm front weather, and you can outclimb most organised IMC in which nasties could be hiding.
Most turbocharged piston IFR tourers will do FL250 or so but almost none of them make TBO without changing some cylinders (or worse).
But then the Diamond engines are much less proven than that, so we have some way to go.
The stock DA42 TDi will do that much at low levels so it's just a case of having enough turbo boost at FL180.
The usual plane salesmen's trick
I've been up to FL200 in the TB20 and can tell you that breathing at FL180+ is a full time job with a cannula. It's OK but you need to monitor passengers fairly carefully. Masks are fine but you get through an awful lot of gas.
I wonder what the ceiling is. That is really more important. If it does 147kt IAS at FL180 then it should go to at least FL250 and that is a really useful capability because you can outclimb most warm front weather, and you can outclimb most organised IMC in which nasties could be hiding.
Most turbocharged piston IFR tourers will do FL250 or so but almost none of them make TBO without changing some cylinders (or worse).
But then the Diamond engines are much less proven than that, so we have some way to go.
200kt TAS at FL180, ISA, is only about 147kt IAS
I agree that these kind of altitudes really require pressurization. I've done long flights at FL180 and above, a handful of times, and you spend a LOT of time checking the oximeter and the integrity of the plumbing! I very rarely go much above 10000' unless I need to for the terrain.
All I really want is something which doesn't actually go SLOWER than my TR182.
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Well, except that prop efficiency falls off with altitude. My plane will do 140 KIAS at sea level (well, a few feet above it works better) but at FL200 it's down to under 125.
Was your engine delivering the same HP at FL200?
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Originally Posted by peterh337
200kt TAS at FL180, ISA, is only about 147kt IAS.
The stock DA42 TDi will do that much at low levels so it's just a case of having enough turbo boost at FL180.
The usual plane salesmen's trick
The stock DA42 TDi will do that much at low levels so it's just a case of having enough turbo boost at FL180.
The usual plane salesmen's trick
Originally Posted by peterh337
Was your engine delivering the same HP at FL200? That would amaze me; no GA turbo installation delivers sea level MP at FL200. Most of them go to about FL150 or so, and drop off beyond that.
You mean one of these:
Mustang | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
No, I'm afraid my ride is a TR182 - a Lycoming O540 with a turbocharger added by Cessna. The turbo can give over 20" of boost. The wastegate is manually controlled by the second half of the throttle control movement.
(I tried linking the picture directly using [IMG] tags but it didn't work).
Mustang | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
No, I'm afraid my ride is a TR182 - a Lycoming O540 with a turbocharger added by Cessna. The turbo can give over 20" of boost. The wastegate is manually controlled by the second half of the throttle control movement.
(I tried linking the picture directly using [IMG] tags but it didn't work).
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The 42s ok but with a lot of hours in both the 42 and a cirrus i have to conclude the cirrus is better. Its faster, the cabin is more comfortable, the ride a lot better and the performance more sprightly. The best thing the 42 has going for it is how quiet and smooth the engines are compared with lycomings best.
Frankly for either to be better they would need to be pressurised or another 50 knots found otherwise it is all symantics.
Frankly for either to be better they would need to be pressurised or another 50 knots found otherwise it is all symantics.
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For a "World" cruiser, though, the Jet A feature is hard to beat, and makes this stand out compared to a Cirrus. Outside Europe, US & Aus/NZ, sourcing avgas can be a right pain.
And twin engines across open oceans does make this one a slightly better option travelling with non-pilot passengers. (at least in terms of passenger perception/acceptance)
Completely agree. An extra 20-30 kts on top of the original DA42 Thielert 1.7 is a very nice addition, but doesn't elevate the DA42 anywhere near the next class. (turbine, pressuration, wx radar...) It would merely bridge the embarrasing performance shortfall between the original DA42 and its targeted competition. I mean, who would want to buy a brand new twin that tops out at 155 ktas at FL110?!
I'd still say though, that if the (untested) Austro's can go the distance, the DA42 V1 really has the potential to hit the sweet spot as a very nice modern design personal twin piston tourer in the USD500-800k bracket.
Unfortunately the Thielert saga left an ocean of badwill, so it's an uphill battle at best.
But I'll still be keen to follow the performance data for the DA42 V1 when they're released in march 2012. If it delivers an honest 185 ktas at FL110 using 12-13 gph of Jet A (or, say ~200 ktas at FL160) and the Austros can go the distance, this bird would definitely be on my list...
I've seen the Corvalis 400 doing FL250. However, I wonder how many owners actually fly at this level in real life. I personally feel unpressurised pistons really aren't the proper platform for this kind of flight profile...
And twin engines across open oceans does make this one a slightly better option travelling with non-pilot passengers. (at least in terms of passenger perception/acceptance)
Frankly for either to be better they would need to be pressurised or another 50 knots found otherwise it is all symantics.
I'd still say though, that if the (untested) Austro's can go the distance, the DA42 V1 really has the potential to hit the sweet spot as a very nice modern design personal twin piston tourer in the USD500-800k bracket.
Unfortunately the Thielert saga left an ocean of badwill, so it's an uphill battle at best.
But I'll still be keen to follow the performance data for the DA42 V1 when they're released in march 2012. If it delivers an honest 185 ktas at FL110 using 12-13 gph of Jet A (or, say ~200 ktas at FL160) and the Austros can go the distance, this bird would definitely be on my list...
Most turbocharged piston IFR tourers will do FL250 or so but almost none of them make TBO without changing some cylinders (or worse).
Last edited by Hodja; 25th Dec 2011 at 07:51.
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The cockpit of the DA52, pictured above, looks strong enough to be pressurised. The view out can't be as good as from a DA42 though. I wonder if it is a 5 seater, like the DA50.
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and the Austros can go the distance, this bird would definitely be on my list...
When Continental release their diesel motor I would start to get interested but until then personally I'd be too scared.
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I think that is a reasonable attitude if spending your own money.
It is now clear that Diamond will not rush to tell people of engine problems because they need to sell airframes and they cannot shift them without the motors
If problems surface after delivery, that is OK because they have got paid and the issue shifts into the normal warranty process where it can be, shall we say, "managed"........ hey ho this is aviation after all
At the height of the Thielert debacle they had, according to a friend who visited their factory, some vast number (many dozens, IIRC) of DA42 airframes which could not be delivered because there were no engines. Obviously, Diamond tried everything to stop people cancelling orders. In one case where I know the chap very well, Mr Dries personally offered the customer a D-Jet at a discount price That would have been an absolute scream. There is absolutely not one single person I have ever spoken to privately who has had direct dealings with the factory and who speaks well of the way they do business.
Also, Diamond has recently been sold to some Middle East outfit which has no apparent aviation experience.
It is now clear that Diamond will not rush to tell people of engine problems because they need to sell airframes and they cannot shift them without the motors
If problems surface after delivery, that is OK because they have got paid and the issue shifts into the normal warranty process where it can be, shall we say, "managed"........ hey ho this is aviation after all
At the height of the Thielert debacle they had, according to a friend who visited their factory, some vast number (many dozens, IIRC) of DA42 airframes which could not be delivered because there were no engines. Obviously, Diamond tried everything to stop people cancelling orders. In one case where I know the chap very well, Mr Dries personally offered the customer a D-Jet at a discount price
That would have been an absolute scream. There is absolutely not one single person I have ever spoken to privately who has had direct dealings with the factory and who speaks well of the way they do business.Also, Diamond has recently been sold to some Middle East outfit which has no apparent aviation experience.
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The DA42 with Thielert engines was a delight to fly - smooth and simple to operate. The engine longevity seemed to be a problem. Ultimately their availability became a crisis.
The DA 42-360L was an improvement in many ways, engine history and reliability being chief among them. The compromise became economy, and a return to "old tech". The dependance upon 100LL another undesirable aspect. 180 HP a side sure makes for a great performer though! We did have one up to 19,200 feet during testing, but did not stay long enough to gather any cruise performance data.
I have great hopes for the success of the new diesel engines, but know nothing about them. Like any new powerplant, there comes the inevitable question as to how long you should wait/how many in service, before you buy in. It's a personal decision...
I also have great hopes for the SMA diesel, as we have an order in for one. Things are delayed, but my hope remains. Though I believe that Continental will market a good diesel engine too, I believe that SMA will remain well ahead of Continental for some time to come.
The future is diesel though....
The DA 42-360L was an improvement in many ways, engine history and reliability being chief among them. The compromise became economy, and a return to "old tech". The dependance upon 100LL another undesirable aspect. 180 HP a side sure makes for a great performer though! We did have one up to 19,200 feet during testing, but did not stay long enough to gather any cruise performance data.
I have great hopes for the success of the new diesel engines, but know nothing about them. Like any new powerplant, there comes the inevitable question as to how long you should wait/how many in service, before you buy in. It's a personal decision...
I also have great hopes for the SMA diesel, as we have an order in for one. Things are delayed, but my hope remains. Though I believe that Continental will market a good diesel engine too, I believe that SMA will remain well ahead of Continental for some time to come.
The future is diesel though....