kneebord
I don't know the specific rules in the US, but in Europe that would be illegal. You have to carry your license with you (and we don't have credit-card sized ones just yet) and you'll also have some explaining to do if caught flying without a map of some sort.
As far as practicality is concerned, you also need to have a plan to divert. Suppose somebody else has a landing mishap and blocks the runway for an hour or two. Do you have everything on board for a succesful diversion, or do you have a different plan B?
As far as practicality is concerned, you also need to have a plan to divert. Suppose somebody else has a landing mishap and blocks the runway for an hour or two. Do you have everything on board for a succesful diversion, or do you have a different plan B?
And even if you do have to carry your licence with you, why on earth would you have it on your kneeboard? In flight it is of about as much use as a macrame parachute. You may need it stowed somewhere for on the ground.
I do agree however that pretty much everywhere in the world apart from the USA it is a legal requirement to have a current chart on board covering the area of the planned flight.
G
I don't know the specific rules in the US, but in Europe that would be illegal. You have to carry your license with you (and we don't have credit-card sized ones just yet) and you'll also have some explaining to do if caught flying without a map of some sort.
The US does not require a chart to be carried - we are a (relatively) nanny-free environment. If it did, I'd use - you may have guessed - a zipped pocket.
As far as practicality is concerned, you also need to have a plan to divert. Suppose somebody else has a landing mishap and blocks the runway for an hour or two. Do you have everything on board for a succesful diversion, or do you have a different plan B?
Alternatively I could just use the other runway. Or, if a KC-135 had crashed or something else that would block the whole field, I guess I could go to one of the other half-dozen airports that I know off by heart and are within even the Pitts' feeble fuel reserves,
The US does not require a chart to be carried - we are a (relatively) nanny-free environment. If it did, I'd use - you may have guessed - a zipped pocket.
Personally I find that I refer to the chart far more often than the POH whilst in the air.
G
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Well, I haven't yet graduated to a fully blown kneeboard, not having started navexes! But I do have a chart which I put down beside the seat and a plasticised piece of paper strapped on my knee for ATC instructions.
I keep the following useful stuff in my grow-bag: Two pens, Chinagraph pencil, torch, local area chart, sunglasses, mobile, car and house keys and ID (i've got a story about why I carry that which I won't bore with).
I keep the following useful stuff in my grow-bag: Two pens, Chinagraph pencil, torch, local area chart, sunglasses, mobile, car and house keys and ID (i've got a story about why I carry that which I won't bore with).
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Could someone point me to the paragraph in the UK Air Navigation Order that says a "current chart" must be carried? 
I know that's what everybody thinks it says, but it actually doesn't...
Go and look it up
H
I know that's what everybody thinks it says, but it actually doesn't...Go and look it up
H
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True. It says something along the lines of having to consider all information relevant to your flight. If you can prove to the inspector who performs your ramp check that you were able to memorize every relevant ground feature, navaid, airspace boundary and whatnot within a reasonable distance of your intended track, I guess you can indeed fly without a map (electronic or on paper).
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When I'm just out for some airwork in an area close to my home airfield (read: airfiled permanently in sight under VFR conditions), I admit sometimes taking up nothing at all except my license. When going beyond that (mostly with pax), it's map (item de rigueur for me as I am somewhat navigationally challenged whether airborne or earthbound 
) and kneeboard although I rarely write something down on my short VFR trips (memory now mostly able to retain runway in use, QNH, squawk codes and increasingly departure and landing time).
Flight planning including W&B, weather forecasts, NOTAMS etc. for the non-immediate-airfield-proximity tours are stored electronically in my e-mail account.
Actually, I write down a lot more when I sim-fly online (IFR clearances etc.), but then again I have my comfortable desk instead of a tight two-seater cockpit
. Simming has also helped me somewhat in not needing a map that badly in the extended airfield surroundings.
Concerning pax and sickbags, I have hitherto successfully relied on ginger capsules (highly recommended, makes a top gun of every stomach).
) and kneeboard although I rarely write something down on my short VFR trips (memory now mostly able to retain runway in use, QNH, squawk codes and increasingly departure and landing time).Flight planning including W&B, weather forecasts, NOTAMS etc. for the non-immediate-airfield-proximity tours are stored electronically in my e-mail account.
Actually, I write down a lot more when I sim-fly online (IFR clearances etc.), but then again I have my comfortable desk instead of a tight two-seater cockpit
. Simming has also helped me somewhat in not needing a map that badly in the extended airfield surroundings.Concerning pax and sickbags, I have hitherto successfully relied on ginger capsules (highly recommended, makes a top gun of every stomach).
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It's quite a good idea to use your laminated half mil chart as your kneeboard, show your route and add notes and frequencies. Clip a small pad somewhere to write down more stuff and en route notes. When I flew out of somewhere like Manchester Airport I used to keep detailed written notes of what the air and ground traffic control 'might' say so that I could anticipate their directions and confirm clearly.
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Heston, I am sure that you are wrong but I cannot point you to the relevant bit of the ANO.
Also to some other posters, do not assume that everyone has a fantastic memory
Also to some other posters, do not assume that everyone has a fantastic memory
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In failing to prepare I prepare to... Whoops!
My kneeboard contains a clean sheet of A5 underneath the plastic outer cover for ATIS, clearances etc; clipped on top would usually be my plog. A stopwatch is clipped to the top right hole. Inside you'd find a RNP (very useful for in flight div work), RT freq reference cards for north/south VFR charts (because I couldn't work out what to do with them, so slid them in and forgot about them), copies of the VFR plates (Pooleys guide) for my planned airfield with a china graph arrow drawn on the plastic pocket as to which direction I plan to arrive from; there are also copies of planned div plates too. There are 2 sick bags, and a laminated pax brief reminder. The chart will either sit on my lap, or on the back seat with the headset bag containing a torch and my log book.
Finally if flying a lengthy trip (or going abroard) I'll take my entire flight case containing much crap amongst all sorts of useful contraptions from a yoke clip (if planning to fly an inst app) to a headset attachable lamp, blanks, note pads, (foggles bizarrely!!). Also in there are inst plate booklets for most of the UK, licence, and medical.
Who needs a memory?!
Finally if flying a lengthy trip (or going abroard) I'll take my entire flight case containing much crap amongst all sorts of useful contraptions from a yoke clip (if planning to fly an inst app) to a headset attachable lamp, blanks, note pads, (foggles bizarrely!!). Also in there are inst plate booklets for most of the UK, licence, and medical.
Who needs a memory?!
Last edited by GeeWhizz; 5th Nov 2011 at 02:07.
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funfly he isn't wrong. Its acceptable also to have a road map with relevent data transcribed onto it.
In fact most folk carry semi/illegal charts because they never update them when a circular comes out mid cycle. Its not uncommon for the charts to be out of date the day they get published.
In fact most folk carry semi/illegal charts because they never update them when a circular comes out mid cycle. Its not uncommon for the charts to be out of date the day they get published.
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In fact most folk carry semi/illegal charts because they never update them when a circular comes out mid cycle. Its not uncommon for the charts to be out of date the day they get published.
It's another reason to standardize on the Jeppesen series of VFR+GPS charts for Europe. All the updates are in one location from one vendor, who even can send you an update notice every Friday.
General Aviation VFR+GPS Charts - Jeppesen
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Requirement for chart
Funfly,
It would seem that Heston is correct, I've had a look through the ANO and can't find a mention of it. However, having being flying for a couple of decades, I too am fairly sure I have read that in the past. The phrase "must carry a chart that covers the planned route and any diversion" or something similar sticks in my mind, but it's not there now. The ANO does change over time and that may have been in it at some point in the past and subsequently been removed or amended.
However, it's also possible that it's just a myth that's built up over time, by being repeated often enough.
It would seem that Heston is correct, I've had a look through the ANO and can't find a mention of it. However, having being flying for a couple of decades, I too am fairly sure I have read that in the past. The phrase "must carry a chart that covers the planned route and any diversion" or something similar sticks in my mind, but it's not there now. The ANO does change over time and that may have been in it at some point in the past and subsequently been removed or amended.
However, it's also possible that it's just a myth that's built up over time, by being repeated often enough.
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Another thing I still carry and had forgotten about is a navigation aid identifier sheet. I made it as an excel sheet and printed it out for my skills test. It has all the stations, facilities, frequencies and written morse code identifiers for every navigation aid in my area. It makes tuning in nav aids and identifying them much quicker since I don't really want to learn morse code.
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I have one of those Flylight zip-up map boards (open cockpit y'see). In it I keep (visible): Chart covering the intended route (with a big WIND arrow drawn on), destination field plate and plog. tucked in behind the chart I stow some pencils, a ruler, diversion field plates and a derigging aide memoir in case I have to leave the aircraft somewhere overnight or even trailer it home. I also carry a little bag under the seat containing a tie down kit and a penguin biscuit.
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The ANO wording is "navigation charts or codes appropriate to the intended flight". So you can use whatever you want as long as you can convince the powers that be that it was appropriate. I don't fancy my chances if I bust the Stansted CTA with only a Little Chef locations map on board though...
H
Edit to add: sorry for raising this really, but its a bit of a hobby horse of mine - too many folk just stick to the most recent issue of the half-mil (oh that's OK, I'm legal) without thinking for themselves what they actually need for the intended flight. The ANO wording places the responsibility with the pilot, which is as it should be. H
H
Edit to add: sorry for raising this really, but its a bit of a hobby horse of mine - too many folk just stick to the most recent issue of the half-mil (oh that's OK, I'm legal) without thinking for themselves what they actually need for the intended flight. The ANO wording places the responsibility with the pilot, which is as it should be. H
