Lights during engine start
Backpacker...you clearly state that you put the strobes on before start and leave them on for taxi. See you own checklist above.
This is what I and many others strongly object to!
Good airmanship says to put them on when entering the runway...regardless of whether you are at Heathrow or Popham!
UV
This is what I and many others strongly object to!
Good airmanship says to put them on when entering the runway...regardless of whether you are at Heathrow or Popham!
UV
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Depends on what you call strobes, and what you call beacon.
What I've got is a relatively low powered strobe that sits on top of the fuselage, where normally you would expect a beacon. It's not bright enough to blind people in daylight and the plane is never flown at night. I don't have a separate beacon.
What I've got is a relatively low powered strobe that sits on top of the fuselage, where normally you would expect a beacon. It's not bright enough to blind people in daylight and the plane is never flown at night. I don't have a separate beacon.
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As huv pointed out in #20, some aircraft - such as our PA28 - have the strobes and beacon wired to the same switch so it's all or nothing as far as the beacon is concerned. I rather expected an ATPL holder to know that sort of thing!
so everyone is "flashed" once the compulsory light is on; people by the hangar, the fuel station and on the run-up ramp. Annoying especially at night
such as our PA28 - have the strobes and beacon wired to the same switch so it's all or nothing as far as the beacon is concerned. I rather expected an ATPL holder to know that sort of thing!
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The PA28's we have at my old training feild have two different switches, on one aircraft there is a single strobe/beacon, the other has a split switch both are Archer II's. We have different procedures for both
Beacon on for startup, strobes on for the run up. which is normally done near to the hold point for each runway. In the place i'm flying from now its the same thing, except the run up area is further from the Hold points.
I would say stobes on near the apron would be annoying in twilight/night.
I had an instructor who would turnthe beacon off in the taxi because he hated the noise in the headset!!!! go figure. I love uncontrolled airfeilds :-)
Beacon on for startup, strobes on for the run up. which is normally done near to the hold point for each runway. In the place i'm flying from now its the same thing, except the run up area is further from the Hold points.
I would say stobes on near the apron would be annoying in twilight/night.
I had an instructor who would turnthe beacon off in the taxi because he hated the noise in the headset!!!! go figure. I love uncontrolled airfeilds :-)
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Cold Start Up Procedure - Winter
After a humbling altercation with a very experienced mechanic about what to expect from an aircraft battery during winter, I've decided to apply the following starting procedure on a light single (with a 60 Amps / 12 V Battery):
1. Complete Exterior Check with Master Switch Off, Magnetos Off, Disconnect GPS, All Electrical Equipment Off.
2. Pull Aircraft Outside
3. Manually Turn Propellor 6 rotations in the normal rotation direction
(i.e. to the right/clockwise from the pilot seat's point of view, to the left/counterclockwise when standing in front of the aircraft)
4. Master Switch On - check voltage - if above +11.0 V the battery should make the starting cycle (Alternator OFF : the alternator draws on the battery when the engine is not running)
5. Landing light on - count 5 seconds - check voltage: should be +0.2 V higher - Landing light off (electrolite fluid warms up enough to increase battery power more than it drains it)
6. Magnetos LEFT (because the left magneto drives the starting spark); Mixture Fully Rich, Throttle 1/4 inch Forward.
7. Fuel Pomp ON
8. Starter Engage
AFTER START
9. Magnetos BOTH
10. Alternator ON
11. Check Oil Pressure; Check Alternator Load Positive
12. Check Voltage : should be between 12 V and 13.5 V now.
13. Engage remaining electrical equipment as required; Check Alternator Load with each added item.
Any comments ?
1. Complete Exterior Check with Master Switch Off, Magnetos Off, Disconnect GPS, All Electrical Equipment Off.
2. Pull Aircraft Outside
3. Manually Turn Propellor 6 rotations in the normal rotation direction
(i.e. to the right/clockwise from the pilot seat's point of view, to the left/counterclockwise when standing in front of the aircraft)
4. Master Switch On - check voltage - if above +11.0 V the battery should make the starting cycle (Alternator OFF : the alternator draws on the battery when the engine is not running)
5. Landing light on - count 5 seconds - check voltage: should be +0.2 V higher - Landing light off (electrolite fluid warms up enough to increase battery power more than it drains it)
6. Magnetos LEFT (because the left magneto drives the starting spark); Mixture Fully Rich, Throttle 1/4 inch Forward.
7. Fuel Pomp ON
8. Starter Engage
AFTER START
9. Magnetos BOTH
10. Alternator ON
11. Check Oil Pressure; Check Alternator Load Positive
12. Check Voltage : should be between 12 V and 13.5 V now.
13. Engage remaining electrical equipment as required; Check Alternator Load with each added item.
Any comments ?
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Might want to prime a bit somewhere before step 8.
And although I can see the reason behind it, I notice that you don't check your lights during the walkaround (so I assume this is a Day VFR procedure only) and you don't check the (electric) stall warner. Or is yours mechanical?
And although I can see the reason behind it, I notice that you don't check your lights during the walkaround (so I assume this is a Day VFR procedure only) and you don't check the (electric) stall warner. Or is yours mechanical?
Last edited by BackPacker; 9th Jan 2012 at 22:33.
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When it's very cold, the battery will often struggle so I keep the lights to a minimum on start.
Sometimes, I will skip checking the landing light during a pre flight to save the battery, and just get the thing running. Once you've got it going (talking PA28 here) you can see the ammeter jump when you turn any lights or pitot heat on, so can easily see if things are working or INOP.
Indeed, most PA28s only have one switch which gives both beacon and strobes, which does annoy some people. I've never had a problem standing near an aircraft with it's strobes going, so don't really see what the fuss is about, but I do keep these lights off on the ground as i know some people are sensitive to this.
Sometimes, I will skip checking the landing light during a pre flight to save the battery, and just get the thing running. Once you've got it going (talking PA28 here) you can see the ammeter jump when you turn any lights or pitot heat on, so can easily see if things are working or INOP.
Indeed, most PA28s only have one switch which gives both beacon and strobes, which does annoy some people. I've never had a problem standing near an aircraft with it's strobes going, so don't really see what the fuss is about, but I do keep these lights off on the ground as i know some people are sensitive to this.
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Indeed, most PA28s only have one switch which gives both beacon and strobes, which does annoy some people. I've never had a problem standing near an aircraft with it's strobes going, so don't really see what the fuss is about, but I do keep these lights off on the ground as i know some people are sensitive to this.
During the walk-around I quickly check that lights, pitot heat and stall warner work and then turn them off. In the PA28s I fly I don't turn the strobes+beacon on on the ground but I make sure to give a very loud "clear prop" call and a careful look around.
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#27 Unfortunately not too many light aircraft are fitted with a voltmeter mostly have an ammeter. I believe a voltmeter would be much more useful for detecting battery condition and charging problems.
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Most portable Garmins can display the voltage when connected to the avionics bus (or car adapter). This is a data field I keep a close eye on since there was an accident in my area where the alternator of a C172RG failed without the pilot noticing and then -- through a series of pilot mistakes -- the aircraft got destroyed and the pilot seriously injured.
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Every time I have seen the 'clear prop' call being said, the prop starts turning about 3 nanoseconds after the call, rendering it pointless. I personally use flashing beacon on before going through the whole lookout around, then prime then crank, so the beacon is on for about ten seconds before cranking. Everyone should be doing a good lookout and not relying on people to see a light, or hear a call.
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Every time I have seen the 'clear prop' call being said, the prop starts turning about 3 nanoseconds after the call
It should be a clear shout with the emphasis on the "PROP", pause, double check the area is clear and then start cranking.
The other problem is where you've failed to start 1st time, perhaps leave it 30 secs or so and then start cranking again without looking out or recalling. By this time, someone has usually seen you've had trouble starting and is heading over to add their 2p, making the situation slightly more dangerous.
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Thanks !
Hey thanks a lot for your feed back friends, very helpful.
The amended list is then as follows:
1. Complete Exterior Check with Master Switch Off, Magnetos Off, Disconnect GPS, All Electrical Equipment Off.
2. Pull Aircraft Outside
3. Manually Turn Propellor 6 rotations in the normal rotation direction
(i.e. to the right/clockwise from the pilot seat's point of view, to the left/counterclockwise when standing in front of the aircraft)
4. Master Switch On - check voltage - if above +11.0 V the battery should make the starting cycle (Alternator OFF : the alternator draws on the battery when the engine is not running)
5. Landing light on - count 5 seconds - check voltage: should be +0.2 V higher - Landing light off (electrolite fluid warms up enough to increase battery power more than it drains it)
6. Magnetos LEFT (because the left magneto drives the starting spark); Mixture Fully Rich, Throttle 1/4 inch Forward, Prime 6 times as per POH cold weather ops.
7. Fuel Pomp ON
8. Starter Engage
AFTER START
9. Magnetos BOTH
10. Alternator ON
11. Check Oil Pressure; Check Alternator Load Positive
12. Check Voltage : should be between 12 V and 13.5 V now.
13. Engage remaining electrical equipment as required; Check Alternator Load with each added item.
For night operations, I would replace point 5 by :
5. Landing light on, Nav Lights on
Run around the aircraft to check all 4 lights operating
Landing light off, Nav Lights off
For IFR operations in winter, I would ignore the Start Up Clearance chore and call them when the engine is already running. 1 minute of two way radio is sufficient to deplete the battery beyond starting capabilities.
Pitot tube heat operability can be checked by the load meter difference. If you turn on 200-odd Watts of pitot heat in the above aircraft in winter, without the engine and the alternator running, you're going to stay on the ground.
I don't think you can do that with the Nav lights, as they are shielded from the cockpit and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the load with one of the three of them being inop.
As for the stall warner, how important is that check ? I mean, in some PA28 types the stall warning is a red indicator which you cannot see from where you're pushing the stall vane.
The amended list is then as follows:
1. Complete Exterior Check with Master Switch Off, Magnetos Off, Disconnect GPS, All Electrical Equipment Off.
2. Pull Aircraft Outside
3. Manually Turn Propellor 6 rotations in the normal rotation direction
(i.e. to the right/clockwise from the pilot seat's point of view, to the left/counterclockwise when standing in front of the aircraft)
4. Master Switch On - check voltage - if above +11.0 V the battery should make the starting cycle (Alternator OFF : the alternator draws on the battery when the engine is not running)
5. Landing light on - count 5 seconds - check voltage: should be +0.2 V higher - Landing light off (electrolite fluid warms up enough to increase battery power more than it drains it)
6. Magnetos LEFT (because the left magneto drives the starting spark); Mixture Fully Rich, Throttle 1/4 inch Forward, Prime 6 times as per POH cold weather ops.
7. Fuel Pomp ON
8. Starter Engage
AFTER START
9. Magnetos BOTH
10. Alternator ON
11. Check Oil Pressure; Check Alternator Load Positive
12. Check Voltage : should be between 12 V and 13.5 V now.
13. Engage remaining electrical equipment as required; Check Alternator Load with each added item.
For night operations, I would replace point 5 by :
5. Landing light on, Nav Lights on
Run around the aircraft to check all 4 lights operating
Landing light off, Nav Lights off
For IFR operations in winter, I would ignore the Start Up Clearance chore and call them when the engine is already running. 1 minute of two way radio is sufficient to deplete the battery beyond starting capabilities.
Pitot tube heat operability can be checked by the load meter difference. If you turn on 200-odd Watts of pitot heat in the above aircraft in winter, without the engine and the alternator running, you're going to stay on the ground.
I don't think you can do that with the Nav lights, as they are shielded from the cockpit and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the load with one of the three of them being inop.
As for the stall warner, how important is that check ? I mean, in some PA28 types the stall warning is a red indicator which you cannot see from where you're pushing the stall vane.
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My normal procedure is to check the lights (and stall warning) during my walk around, then turn on the beacon only before start.
On VERY cold days and with a weak battery I have on occasion enlisted the help of someone to check the lights for me after I've got the engine going. Only had to resort to that a couple of times, though.
I open the window (Cessna) for my 'clear prop' call (seen too many guys shout at themselves inside the cockpit...)
If startup clearance is required, then I usually make that call with my handheld. Also use that if at a very busy airport with clearance delivery, as they sometimes give you a taxi delay - no point sitting on the ramp with an engine turning.
Strobes: on upon entering rwy, off upon leaving rwy post-landing.
On VERY cold days and with a weak battery I have on occasion enlisted the help of someone to check the lights for me after I've got the engine going. Only had to resort to that a couple of times, though.
I open the window (Cessna) for my 'clear prop' call (seen too many guys shout at themselves inside the cockpit...)
If startup clearance is required, then I usually make that call with my handheld. Also use that if at a very busy airport with clearance delivery, as they sometimes give you a taxi delay - no point sitting on the ramp with an engine turning.
Strobes: on upon entering rwy, off upon leaving rwy post-landing.
1 minute of two way radio is sufficient to deplete the battery beyond starting capabilities.
I notice few of you advocate pulling the prop through a dozen or so compressions on a cold start. I find doing so helps, as does using multigrade oil, and priming a couple of pumps before pulling the prop through. I don't have a beacon to turn on, or a stall warner. But I can yell clear prop in five languages. And it is loud, and with the door open. Then wait five seconds......
Oh, and I need a good battery to work the shower of sparks on the mags, which I admit is unusual. Means hand swinging on a flat battery is not very useful as an option. A bit feeble, yes, but not completely dead. Jump leads are your friend here.
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Jump leads are your friend here.
I've had to wheel a ground power pack out a couple of times last winter until the boss finally replaced the battery.
I've also seen someone jump start a PA28 using their car.
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I did it once, cowling off, car very close to wing, careful not to allow the prop to get tangled up in jump leads, start, run for long enough to start itself, stop, disconnect, refit cowling, move car, re-start (only just). Pain in the ass, not recommended.
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And might be worth leaving the beacon switch on permanently - if you have left the aircraft and have the keys etc, and the beacon is still on, you're gonna get a flat battery! Good visual indication that the master has been left on.
On a 172, you'll easily get more than 1 minute two-way out of the radios - won't get a flat battery.
On a 172, you'll easily get more than 1 minute two-way out of the radios - won't get a flat battery.
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I check starter warning light out after start and that brakes are holding.
Oh yes - and check brakes are on before starting...
Another thing I do is check that the controls which can move (so not rudder if linked to the nose wheel) can reach their control limits and are free once you are sitting in (so avoiding knee boards). I also exercise each of the other physically operated controls (such as alternate air, trim, mixture, etc).
I pretty much never have nav lights on as my permit AC isn't night rated, so they are never needed (so why bother drawing the power and wasting the bulbs). I might turn them on for added visibility for others if getting near dusk, but if I'm having difficulty seeing - I shouldn't be flying!
Oh yes - and check brakes are on before starting...
Another thing I do is check that the controls which can move (so not rudder if linked to the nose wheel) can reach their control limits and are free once you are sitting in (so avoiding knee boards). I also exercise each of the other physically operated controls (such as alternate air, trim, mixture, etc).
I pretty much never have nav lights on as my permit AC isn't night rated, so they are never needed (so why bother drawing the power and wasting the bulbs). I might turn them on for added visibility for others if getting near dusk, but if I'm having difficulty seeing - I shouldn't be flying!