EASA Aerobatics Rating
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
There is, of course, always the slight problem that (with the exception of the LAPL) experience gained on a non-EASA aircraft cannot be credited towards the issue of a Part-FCL licence or rating.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
From: Up North
Isn't the definition of "an EASA aircraft" just something they want to control and regulate (ie make everything difficult and expensive), rather than being anything to do with the state of registration? For example, Annex II aircraft will be non EASA, but lots will be registered in EASA countries.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,402
Likes: 858
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Correct, mrmum.
The more you learn about €ASA, the more you realise how unfit for purpose the whole thing is.
It is also obvious that the CAA hasn't taken as forthright an attitude as it should have done to protect the interests of British pilots. It has simply rolled over to €urocracy without any fight. Disgraceful.
The more you learn about €ASA, the more you realise how unfit for purpose the whole thing is.
It is also obvious that the CAA hasn't taken as forthright an attitude as it should have done to protect the interests of British pilots. It has simply rolled over to €urocracy without any fight. Disgraceful.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
This should be interesting for the schools in the USA who don't have EASA aircraft!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
From: Belgium
This is just so stupid, bureaucracy for its own sake.
...one of the first items we discussed was 'grandfather rights'
I hope the transport committee sees the lunacy of it all and gives the EASA FCL proposal the shaft it deserves.
It's still not too late to write to Brian Simpson and tell him what you think. You can also see them live this afternoon when they discuss the highly needed 50 extra jobs at EASA + the well justified budget increase of 5.7%
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
From: London
The next step might be to make sure cannot physically start the aircraft unless you hold the rating to fly it. Maybe a card reader in the aircraft that disables it until you scan your EASA license as a mandatory part of preflight preparation.
I'm sure that by now all EASA employees must know that EASA is viewed as a complete joke and that their jobs are utterly pointless and a complete waste of everybodies time. If not, it's just another example of them failing to listen to the aviation community.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,402
Likes: 858
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Mmmm. Did you discuss grandfather rights for 3rd country ICAO license holders too ?
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 56
From: Melbourne, Australia
I am just doing some research on what is happening in other parts of the world as Australia is rewriiting the licensing reg now and wondering if there is any update on this yet? I found the following info online:
What categories of aircraft are there?
The exercises of the aerobatic flying training syllabus should be repeated as necessary until the applicant achieves a safe and competent standard. The training should be tailored to the category of aircraft and limited to the permitted manoeuvres of that type of aircraft. The exercises should comprise at least the following practical training items (if permitted):
4.1. Aerobatic manoeuvres
– Chandelle
– Lazy Eight
– Aileron Roll
– Barrel Roll
– Rudder Roll
– Loop and inverted loop
– Immelmann
– Split S
4.2. Confidence manoeuvres and recoveries
– slow flights and stalls
– steep turns
– side slips
– engine restart in flight (if applicable)
– spins and recovery
– recovery from spiral dives
– recovery from unusual attitudes
4.1. Aerobatic manoeuvres
– Chandelle
– Lazy Eight
– Aileron Roll
– Barrel Roll
– Rudder Roll
– Loop and inverted loop
– Immelmann
– Split S
4.2. Confidence manoeuvres and recoveries
– slow flights and stalls
– steep turns
– side slips
– engine restart in flight (if applicable)
– spins and recovery
– recovery from spiral dives
– recovery from unusual attitudes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,658
Likes: 501
From: Canada
In Canada there is no rating required to fly aerobatics but you need an "Aerobatic Instructor Rating" to teach aerobatics. As an instructor you are expected to teach to the capabilities of the aircraft. This will obviously be different for a C 152 as compared to say a Extra 300. The regulator makes an assessment of your instructional competence based on the aircraft you do you flight test in. If this is a lower performance entry level aerobatic aircraft then they expect you to know your personal limitations and not instruct manoevers you are not competent to perform like for example inverted spins in a Pitts if all you have ever aerobated is a C 150A. So far this system has IMO worked very well and ensures there is some quality control on the part of instructors offering aerobatic instruction.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
From FCL.010 - Definitions
‘Category of aircraft’ means a categorisation of aircraft according to specified basic characteristics, for example aeroplane, powered-lift, helicopter, airship, sailplane, free balloon.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
From: East Anglia
David,
There is talk of an EASA aerobatics rating coming in within the next 2 yrs. I don't know all the details but it will require something like the 10hr AOPA course and the latest update is that you will need 40 hrs straight and level after gaining your licence before you can get the rating.
This is if you wish to get an EASA licence endorsement in order to fly aerobatics in an EASA aerobatic aircraft. This will apply to Extras, CAPs and the certified Pitts (S2A, S1Ts and S2Cs) ie most of the training and rental aerobatics types.
However if you have a UK non expiring PPL and/or an NPPL and you are flying a non EASA aircraft ie an LAA/homebuilt type. Then you will not need any rating. Quite a lot of Pitts, lasers, Eagles etc fall into this category
There is talk of grandfather rights but you will need evidence of having done aerobatics. This can be the AOPA course or an Aerobatic competition or similar.
I do think this is unlikely to create any additional safety and will just discourage some people from taking up aerobatics. Indeed it might encourage private experimentation with aerobatics which can't be good.
The present system of self regulation has worked very well for many years. All EASA will do is increase costs and reduce safety.
There is talk of an EASA aerobatics rating coming in within the next 2 yrs. I don't know all the details but it will require something like the 10hr AOPA course and the latest update is that you will need 40 hrs straight and level after gaining your licence before you can get the rating.
This is if you wish to get an EASA licence endorsement in order to fly aerobatics in an EASA aerobatic aircraft. This will apply to Extras, CAPs and the certified Pitts (S2A, S1Ts and S2Cs) ie most of the training and rental aerobatics types.
However if you have a UK non expiring PPL and/or an NPPL and you are flying a non EASA aircraft ie an LAA/homebuilt type. Then you will not need any rating. Quite a lot of Pitts, lasers, Eagles etc fall into this category
There is talk of grandfather rights but you will need evidence of having done aerobatics. This can be the AOPA course or an Aerobatic competition or similar.
I do think this is unlikely to create any additional safety and will just discourage some people from taking up aerobatics. Indeed it might encourage private experimentation with aerobatics which can't be good.
The present system of self regulation has worked very well for many years. All EASA will do is increase costs and reduce safety.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
From: East Anglia
We've had an aerobatic endorsement for many years so we are already leading most of the world in aerobatic bureaucracy.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: sydney
as djpil would agree, there is at least one well respected school in Australia that teaches ab initio pilots aeros from day 1 and has them flying solo aeros before even a restricted licence is issued. Not only has it done so safely for decades, it has produced a wealth of solidly trained pilots as a result. 40 hours PIC time AFTER licence issue is ludicrous!