How to prepare for international flights within Europe?
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How to prepare for international flights within Europe?
Hello everybody,
until today, I just flew in Germany and the USA. I would however like to do some trips around Europe.
I fly out of Speyer in Germany, the countries I would like to fly to are Norway, England and Croatia.
On the way to England, I would have to pass Luxembourg, Belgium and France.
For getting to Norway Denmark and Sweden would have to be passed and for Croatia Austria, Italy and Slowenia.
I feel now somewhat helpless about how much efforts I will have to put in the preparation for each of these trips.
How do you prepare for this kind of journeys? Getting Jeppesen trip kits for all of the countries you are going to pass? Reading the whole AIP of each of the countries?
Please excuse me if my questions sounds dumb, but to spend more than 500,- € just for a trip kit for a weekend trip to England, feels somewhat awkward. Isn't there something like a publication which points out the specialities of each of the country's regulations? So that all I would need to get is this publication and the current charts?
Cheers,
Oliver
until today, I just flew in Germany and the USA. I would however like to do some trips around Europe.
I fly out of Speyer in Germany, the countries I would like to fly to are Norway, England and Croatia.
On the way to England, I would have to pass Luxembourg, Belgium and France.
For getting to Norway Denmark and Sweden would have to be passed and for Croatia Austria, Italy and Slowenia.
I feel now somewhat helpless about how much efforts I will have to put in the preparation for each of these trips.
How do you prepare for this kind of journeys? Getting Jeppesen trip kits for all of the countries you are going to pass? Reading the whole AIP of each of the countries?
Please excuse me if my questions sounds dumb, but to spend more than 500,- € just for a trip kit for a weekend trip to England, feels somewhat awkward. Isn't there something like a publication which points out the specialities of each of the country's regulations? So that all I would need to get is this publication and the current charts?
Cheers,
Oliver
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Hello!
The first question would be: VFR or IFR? If you fly IFR, you don't need to worry much. All you really need is a german Jeppesen kit and the Jeppesen low-level enroute charts for the areas you want to visit. Most neighbouring countries have their AIPs online and you can download the IFR charts of your destination and alternate airfields for free. Germany is one of the few countries remaining without this service! IFR flightplans to foreign countries are no different from domestic ones, so nothing to worry about here.
Going VFR is slightly more difficult, because some countries are somewhat restrictive regarding VFR flying (e.g. Italy) or have very strange national peculiarities (like for example "overhead joins" in the UK). You really need to read the relevant sections of their AIP or talk to someone who has been there recently. The best thing is to get the VFR Jeppesen manuals (ex Bottlang) for the countries you want to visit. All Jeppesen approach plates look the same, but VFR approach plates in national AIPs look very different between countries and can lead to a lot of confusion. The introductory part of the Jeppesen Manuals contains all the various national rules too, sparing you the effort of browsing through all the national AIPs. The price of the manual is not cheap, but fines for busting airpaces and violating rules and laws are not cheap either...
Happy landings,
max
The first question would be: VFR or IFR? If you fly IFR, you don't need to worry much. All you really need is a german Jeppesen kit and the Jeppesen low-level enroute charts for the areas you want to visit. Most neighbouring countries have their AIPs online and you can download the IFR charts of your destination and alternate airfields for free. Germany is one of the few countries remaining without this service! IFR flightplans to foreign countries are no different from domestic ones, so nothing to worry about here.
Going VFR is slightly more difficult, because some countries are somewhat restrictive regarding VFR flying (e.g. Italy) or have very strange national peculiarities (like for example "overhead joins" in the UK). You really need to read the relevant sections of their AIP or talk to someone who has been there recently. The best thing is to get the VFR Jeppesen manuals (ex Bottlang) for the countries you want to visit. All Jeppesen approach plates look the same, but VFR approach plates in national AIPs look very different between countries and can lead to a lot of confusion. The introductory part of the Jeppesen Manuals contains all the various national rules too, sparing you the effort of browsing through all the national AIPs. The price of the manual is not cheap, but fines for busting airpaces and violating rules and laws are not cheap either...
Happy landings,
max
In Europe (actually, pretty much everywhere except the US), aeronautical information is published in the ... wait for it... Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP). Such AIPs are sometimes divided into IFR and VFR.
Most European IFR AIPs are available from the European AIS Database. You need to register but it's free. The AIPs have summaries of the applicable flight rules (in particular differences from ICAO standards) in the ENR and GEN sections.
AIPs are also available online.
The UK AIP includes VFR and IFR, as does France and Belgium. Germany does not publish its VFR AIP free online (shame on you DFS!).
Most European IFR AIPs are available from the European AIS Database. You need to register but it's free. The AIPs have summaries of the applicable flight rules (in particular differences from ICAO standards) in the ENR and GEN sections.
AIPs are also available online.
The UK AIP includes VFR and IFR, as does France and Belgium. Germany does not publish its VFR AIP free online (shame on you DFS!).
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I have flown to many countries in Europe, including Germany, France, Luxenbourge, Belgium and Spain. All VFR
Its not much more difficult than an internal flight with a few exceptions.
File a flight plan if you are crossing a border between two countries, Some countries such as Spain need a plan filing for ALL fights. Plan the route meticulously, check the weather equally so and remember that you need to be compatent in English to talk to the various ATC' and you need to plan to keep talking to someone all the time if you dont want to find yourself being intercepted.
And finally, dont forget that you have to enter/leave a country through a customs airfield and you should call that field and ensure that the know in advance you are coming. Be nice to them and they will almost always be very helpful.
Have fun
RTC
Its not much more difficult than an internal flight with a few exceptions.
File a flight plan if you are crossing a border between two countries, Some countries such as Spain need a plan filing for ALL fights. Plan the route meticulously, check the weather equally so and remember that you need to be compatent in English to talk to the various ATC' and you need to plan to keep talking to someone all the time if you dont want to find yourself being intercepted.
And finally, dont forget that you have to enter/leave a country through a customs airfield and you should call that field and ensure that the know in advance you are coming. Be nice to them and they will almost always be very helpful.
Have fun
RTC
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Hi Max and the others,
thanks for your quick replies.
Please excuse me - I want to fly VFR. As I am German (like you, I live near Stuttgart), I am familiar with the regulations here in Germany.
I know that most of the European AIPs are available on-line, it however spooks me off that I would have to read and understand the AIPs of Luxembourg, Belgium and France, just to get to England. I would of course also have to read and understand their AIP.
It indeed sounds as if to simply invest in the Jeppesen VFR Manual Europe would be the most convenient and complete solution. I also just saw that it is slightly cheaper than I remembered - including updates for one year the VFR manual 'Alpha' is around 450,- € here in Germany. I believe, that JeppView provides the same information.
@RTC:
maybe I'm making this issue more complex that it actually is...
Cheers,
Oliver
Cheers, Oliver
thanks for your quick replies.
Please excuse me - I want to fly VFR. As I am German (like you, I live near Stuttgart), I am familiar with the regulations here in Germany.
I know that most of the European AIPs are available on-line, it however spooks me off that I would have to read and understand the AIPs of Luxembourg, Belgium and France, just to get to England. I would of course also have to read and understand their AIP.
It indeed sounds as if to simply invest in the Jeppesen VFR Manual Europe would be the most convenient and complete solution. I also just saw that it is slightly cheaper than I remembered - including updates for one year the VFR manual 'Alpha' is around 450,- € here in Germany. I believe, that JeppView provides the same information.
@RTC:
maybe I'm making this issue more complex that it actually is...
Cheers,
Oliver
Cheers, Oliver
I know that most of the European AIPs are available on-line, it however spooks me off that I would have to read and understand the AIPs of Luxembourg, Belgium and France, just to get to England. I would of course also have to read and understand their AIP.
It indeed sounds as if to simply invest in the Jeppesen VFR Manual Europe would be the most convenient and complete solution.
It indeed sounds as if to simply invest in the Jeppesen VFR Manual Europe would be the most convenient and complete solution.
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maybe I'm making this issue more complex that it actually is... 
You don't need to even look at the Luxembourg AIP, as you will not be landing and they will tell you anything you need to know when you contact them to cross the border.
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And finally, dont forget that you have to enter/leave a country through a customs airfield and you should call that field and ensure that the know in advance you are coming.
This can save you a lot of money, since small airports are generally much more cheaper then the big international ones (depending on the country).
Regarding the AIP: read the "VFR" part of it. This is normally max 5 pages.
Register at eurocontrol (free), you can find almost every European AIP online: EUROCONTROL - The European AIS Database: Introduction to EAD Basic - Home
Don't worry to much about VFR approach plates. Unless its legally mandatory (don't know if it is, you should look that up), it might help to "create your own" chart starting from some published ifr chart, or some google earth image, or just your normal VFR chart. It might sound spooky, but in practice for VFR flights, you really don't need approach plates. Even more, if you fly to East european countries, like Romania (perhaps Croatia), you'll see that jeppesen doesn't have vfr approach charts, so they don't even exist. The same goes for small almost private airfields. As long as you read the AIP for that particular airfield, or call them and ask for special instructions. And if they have special remarks, big chance that it's also published on their website.
But, as I said, check if you need to have them with you legally!
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The biggest mistake German VFR pilots make is to enter the Belgian FIR at a high level ( F050+) without radio contact. At these levels you're automatically in controlled airspace (class C) and you need an ATC clearance !
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You don't need to buy Jepp or any other trip kits of transiting some country's airspace.
You need to buy the VFR charts and plan a route which is outside controlled airspace (CAS), and also plan a route which is more direct but which you can fly if you can get CAS transits.
Obviously, if you want to land somewhere, then you need the airport data, and you can get that from Jepp, from the national AIPs (links above), by contacting the airport, etc.
I used to do long VFR trips like that before I got the IR. It's easy, once you collect all the stuff together. Airspace access is the least predictable factor, which is why a route outside CAS needs to be planned.
You might have to spend 100 euros plus on VFR charts...
Personally, I rarely bother to read the AIP. I just email/fax the airport directly for the info (opening hours, Customs, avgas, etc) and if they don't reply I don't fly there.
A good GPS is a must
You need to buy the VFR charts and plan a route which is outside controlled airspace (CAS), and also plan a route which is more direct but which you can fly if you can get CAS transits.
Obviously, if you want to land somewhere, then you need the airport data, and you can get that from Jepp, from the national AIPs (links above), by contacting the airport, etc.
I used to do long VFR trips like that before I got the IR. It's easy, once you collect all the stuff together. Airspace access is the least predictable factor, which is why a route outside CAS needs to be planned.
You might have to spend 100 euros plus on VFR charts...
Personally, I rarely bother to read the AIP. I just email/fax the airport directly for the info (opening hours, Customs, avgas, etc) and if they don't reply I don't fly there.
A good GPS is a must
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Luxembourg doesn't even have an AIP. It's all in the Belgian one. Though they do, in places, have different rules.
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If you go to non-controlled fields (and quite a few controlled ones too) you'll find the local pilots communicating with each other in the local language. This is particularly true in Germany and France.
It helps a lot to have a crib sheet with the most common R/T calls, particularly the circuit calls.
As far as the Jeppesen trip kits are concerned, I typically just phone them up (instead of ordering via the web, or via an intermediary company), tell them I want the VFR trip kit for suchandsuch countries, without updates. That gets me what I want, up to date, for the lowest price. You don't have to stick to the bundles they offer on the web. And the update service only makes sense if you travel to certain countries a lot.
And for a one-off trip I wouldn't even bother with the Jeppesen kits. Just print out the relevant AD pages from the AIP, for the airfields you intend to visit, plus a few reasonable alternates.
It helps a lot to have a crib sheet with the most common R/T calls, particularly the circuit calls.
As far as the Jeppesen trip kits are concerned, I typically just phone them up (instead of ordering via the web, or via an intermediary company), tell them I want the VFR trip kit for suchandsuch countries, without updates. That gets me what I want, up to date, for the lowest price. You don't have to stick to the bundles they offer on the web. And the update service only makes sense if you travel to certain countries a lot.
And for a one-off trip I wouldn't even bother with the Jeppesen kits. Just print out the relevant AD pages from the AIP, for the airfields you intend to visit, plus a few reasonable alternates.
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I make my own "trip kits" for VFR flights. Here is the procedure:
1. Order VFR charts.
2. Find the website of destination airport, download and print local rules, fees, charts, telephone numbers, etc... If they do not have a website, think twice if you want to fly there. If you do, contact them by phone.
3. Find the airport at EAD EAD Basic - Registration Page download and print the rest of materials if it is there (you won't find small fields there). I print only airport data.
4. Read the VFR rules of the country at EAD (it will be the same with small differences in things like transition altitudes, airspace structure, sunset, etc...)
5. Pull up the VFR charts, find the routing. BTW, at the back of Jepps are the most important things about VFR flights for the particular country. Program the plan to the GPS.
6. Look around here if you find something interesting about the country and destination airtport.
7. Repeat 2 and 3 for the alternates.
Tripkit is ready.
Miroc
1. Order VFR charts.
2. Find the website of destination airport, download and print local rules, fees, charts, telephone numbers, etc... If they do not have a website, think twice if you want to fly there. If you do, contact them by phone.
3. Find the airport at EAD EAD Basic - Registration Page download and print the rest of materials if it is there (you won't find small fields there). I print only airport data.
4. Read the VFR rules of the country at EAD (it will be the same with small differences in things like transition altitudes, airspace structure, sunset, etc...)
5. Pull up the VFR charts, find the routing. BTW, at the back of Jepps are the most important things about VFR flights for the particular country. Program the plan to the GPS.
6. Look around here if you find something interesting about the country and destination airtport.
7. Repeat 2 and 3 for the alternates.
Tripkit is ready.
Miroc
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Here is a site with European airfields: Aviationweb deja vu - European Airfields online
Hi Oliver,
If its fairly near you, go and have a beer and a chat to the guys at Winzeln-Schramberg, they will be able to tell you everything you need to know about a VFR trip from there to the UK, they recently delivered a Grob 109 to me
at Shorham.
Cheers
If its fairly near you, go and have a beer and a chat to the guys at Winzeln-Schramberg, they will be able to tell you everything you need to know about a VFR trip from there to the UK, they recently delivered a Grob 109 to me
at Shorham.
Cheers
Thread Starter
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@kestrel:
thanks for the hint. Actually, they are not too far away from where I live.
Could you provide me with the name of the pilot so that I can ask for him?
Cheers,
Oliver
thanks for the hint. Actually, they are not too far away from where I live.
Could you provide me with the name of the pilot so that I can ask for him?
Cheers,
Oliver