parts for PA38
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parts for PA38
At first, please excuse my very bad English. I rarely used it since school days long time ago.
That's why I never wrote here, I'm only reading.
But now we've got a big problem in my club and I'm looking for help nearly everywhere and in any language I know.
We're a small club in the center countryside of France and got only two planes, one of them a Piper 38 Tomahawk, used for beginner school and some leisure flights.
It's the loss expensive of the two planes, and my personal favorite.
Actually it is grownded becouse of a ploblem with the nose gear and we can't find the spare part in France. It seems that it isn't produced anymore.
So we are looking for piper workshops or owners who got the piece we need and who are willing to sell it.
Thank and good flights to everyone here
Kerstin
That's why I never wrote here, I'm only reading.
But now we've got a big problem in my club and I'm looking for help nearly everywhere and in any language I know.
We're a small club in the center countryside of France and got only two planes, one of them a Piper 38 Tomahawk, used for beginner school and some leisure flights.
It's the loss expensive of the two planes, and my personal favorite.
Actually it is grownded becouse of a ploblem with the nose gear and we can't find the spare part in France. It seems that it isn't produced anymore.
So we are looking for piper workshops or owners who got the piece we need and who are willing to sell it.
Thank and good flights to everyone here
Kerstin
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I know they're in England, but you could try contacting Ravenair at Liverpool Airport. They have a large fleet of PA38's (13 I think) and they do their own maintenance on them so they might be able to help you find the part you need.
All contact details on their website:
Ravenair - Flight Training, Air Charter, Aerial Survey, Aircraft Engineering, Aircraft Handling, Aircraft Hangarage, Aircraft Management, North West England, Liverpool Airport, City Airport Manchester (Barton Aerodrome)
All contact details on their website:
Ravenair - Flight Training, Air Charter, Aerial Survey, Aircraft Engineering, Aircraft Handling, Aircraft Hangarage, Aircraft Management, North West England, Liverpool Airport, City Airport Manchester (Barton Aerodrome)
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Bonjour Kerstin.
Vous écrivez en anglais très bien, mieux que j'écris Français!
The PA 38 nose leg is very rare and if you find one you must expect it to be expensive.
There is another forum you can try. Here is a link -FLYER Forums • View forum - GA Discussion
Amicalement
Sir George Cayley
Vous écrivez en anglais très bien, mieux que j'écris Français!
The PA 38 nose leg is very rare and if you find one you must expect it to be expensive.
There is another forum you can try. Here is a link -FLYER Forums • View forum - GA Discussion
Amicalement
Sir George Cayley
but I think this IS a metallic part.
I'd also suggest trying Bonus Engineering at Cranfield - they look after the fleet for Bonus Aviation on site, who have 4 or 5 PA38s used continuously for training, so they should have a good handle on how to get hold of parts quickly.
I don't have contact details for Bonus Engineering, but a quick call to Bonus Aviation should get you contact details straight away.
G
I don't have contact details for Bonus Engineering, but a quick call to Bonus Aviation should get you contact details straight away.
G
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unobtanium is engineering humour. Its un-obtainable-ium and linked together to sound like an element.
It means that the material properties you are looking for are impossible to get. So you tell who ever is wanting you to design a component that to be able to meet there specs it needs to be made out of unobtanium. When they ask for a costing of course the unobtanium costs a stupid amount of money which would mean the design would be uneconomic.
It means that the material properties you are looking for are impossible to get. So you tell who ever is wanting you to design a component that to be able to meet there specs it needs to be made out of unobtanium. When they ask for a costing of course the unobtanium costs a stupid amount of money which would mean the design would be uneconomic.
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Thank you for explaining. I could never understand that by my own.
But I like it very much.
I'll remember it and next time I got a doubt, I'll try to pronounce it to find out the joke.
It's 7 years I live in France and when friends start to telling jokes it's always difficult for me to understand and often I can't follow.
Humor is the most difficult to understand in a foreign language.
Thanks to all, who answered for the help, I sent some mails today.
I will see if the unobtanium part is really so unobtainable.
I hope not
Kerstin
But I like it very much.
I'll remember it and next time I got a doubt, I'll try to pronounce it to find out the joke.
It's 7 years I live in France and when friends start to telling jokes it's always difficult for me to understand and often I can't follow.
Humor is the most difficult to understand in a foreign language.
Thanks to all, who answered for the help, I sent some mails today.
I will see if the unobtanium part is really so unobtainable.
I hope not
Kerstin
Last edited by kilo sierra; 18th Jun 2011 at 20:44.
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Don't worry native speaking consultant orthopaedic surgeons don't get it in my experence.
And they don't find it funny either especially if they have written a research paper saying an implant needs to be produced with it for it to be a workable concept.
Another route maybe is to buy a complete airframe that is very near to spar life limit. It would give you a spare engine and all those other parts which are a pain to get.
eg Piper PA38-112 Tomahawk | eBay UK
And they don't find it funny either especially if they have written a research paper saying an implant needs to be produced with it for it to be a workable concept.
Another route maybe is to buy a complete airframe that is very near to spar life limit. It would give you a spare engine and all those other parts which are a pain to get.
eg Piper PA38-112 Tomahawk | eBay UK
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This comment relates to a Seneca I, and not a Tomahawk, though I wonder if the same theme is working it's way through the Piper "legacy" fleet.
I was asked to assist in the approval of a replacement primary structure part for a Seneca I, as the original parts were unairworthy due to corrosion. I contacted Piper Tech Support to enquire about replacement parts. They said the parts were no longer available. I explained that the lack of the partablys prob resulted in permanently grounding the aircraft. The reply from the Piper person was: "Sir, that is a 40 year old aircraft, and Piper no longer wants to support it with spare parts.". We did make and approve replacement parts as required, but it was a very big job.
More recently I had a similar experience with a hail damaged PA-28-161, which I had to specifically approve to continue flying following repair, because Piper would not support the aircraft any more.
I worry that Piper does not care to devote any effort to supporting the older Piper aircraft - but that is just my opinion. I like the Tomahawk, but now I'm glad I do not own one.....
I was asked to assist in the approval of a replacement primary structure part for a Seneca I, as the original parts were unairworthy due to corrosion. I contacted Piper Tech Support to enquire about replacement parts. They said the parts were no longer available. I explained that the lack of the partablys prob resulted in permanently grounding the aircraft. The reply from the Piper person was: "Sir, that is a 40 year old aircraft, and Piper no longer wants to support it with spare parts.". We did make and approve replacement parts as required, but it was a very big job.
More recently I had a similar experience with a hail damaged PA-28-161, which I had to specifically approve to continue flying following repair, because Piper would not support the aircraft any more.
I worry that Piper does not care to devote any effort to supporting the older Piper aircraft - but that is just my opinion. I like the Tomahawk, but now I'm glad I do not own one.....
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I read somewhere that Piper recently sold off its parts operation.
If true, that would leave them with just the miniscule piston business, and the Meridian turboprop sales.
If true, that would leave them with just the miniscule piston business, and the Meridian turboprop sales.
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Cessna has the upcoming SID's for their fleet as well. They started on the 337 Skymaster, as that's the least sold one, but have no doubt all of this will spread to all models of the older Cessna's. It's their way of forcing some new sales.
Expect all manufacturers to follow suit in one way or the other down the line.
Expect all manufacturers to follow suit in one way or the other down the line.
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You could try to find one at a an organisation that dismantles old aircraft like this co;
Skycraft Ltd Chop Shop
Rod1
Skycraft Ltd Chop Shop
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You could try Simon Westley at Cranfield, I know he has repaired both engine frames and nose legs from PA38's in the past - if he can't, I suspect he might point you in the right direction. He is a CAA certified welder, which helps in the decision about repair or replace.
Simon Westley
Westley Aircraft Services
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Cranfield
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Tel (Daytime):
Tel (Evening): 01234 757977
Tel (Mobile): 07752 241185
Simon Westley
Westley Aircraft Services
Cranfield
Bedfordshire
07752 241185
46 Partridge Piece
Cranfield
Beds
MK43 0BP
Tel (Daytime):
Tel (Evening): 01234 757977
Tel (Mobile): 07752 241185
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Not quite sure what you are asking but there are some procedures to be followed (IF you are doing this officially) if a used part is salvaged from a scrap airframe.
On an N-reg the procedure is fairly well defined and basically a non structural part can be inspected by an A&P and declared as good. Only an FAA Part 145 Repair Station can generate a fresh 8130-3 for it, but you don't need an 8130-3 for the vast majority of parts. A structural part may require an A&P/IA and he may determine that it should be NDTd (which for a nose leg of unknown history is pretty obvious really).
On an EASA-reg plane, the practice varies. I recall asking one owner of an EASA 145 company how this works and he said that salvaging a part from another airframe is acceptable only if it has a valid CofA at the time (which a scrap aircraft obviously doesn't because the CofA is gone the instant the plane ceases to be airworthy). That was his take, which was I suspect a very strict one. In other circumstances, parts are being freely salvaged and I suspect often it is done off the logbooks. In some cases, the part is taken to an EASA-145 company which, for a substantial fee, "inspects" the part. In one case I know of, they "overhauled" it by changing one rivet (which didn't need changing). An EASA-145 company is capable of generating a fresh EASA-1 form and this is good enough for any installer no matter how anally retarded, but it is an expensive way around it. I've had obviously used parts sold to me by Socata, with an EASA-1 form, but Socata are an EASA-145 company so they can do anything.
On an N-reg the procedure is fairly well defined and basically a non structural part can be inspected by an A&P and declared as good. Only an FAA Part 145 Repair Station can generate a fresh 8130-3 for it, but you don't need an 8130-3 for the vast majority of parts. A structural part may require an A&P/IA and he may determine that it should be NDTd (which for a nose leg of unknown history is pretty obvious really).
On an EASA-reg plane, the practice varies. I recall asking one owner of an EASA 145 company how this works and he said that salvaging a part from another airframe is acceptable only if it has a valid CofA at the time (which a scrap aircraft obviously doesn't because the CofA is gone the instant the plane ceases to be airworthy). That was his take, which was I suspect a very strict one. In other circumstances, parts are being freely salvaged and I suspect often it is done off the logbooks. In some cases, the part is taken to an EASA-145 company which, for a substantial fee, "inspects" the part. In one case I know of, they "overhauled" it by changing one rivet (which didn't need changing). An EASA-145 company is capable of generating a fresh EASA-1 form and this is good enough for any installer no matter how anally retarded, but it is an expensive way around it. I've had obviously used parts sold to me by Socata, with an EASA-1 form, but Socata are an EASA-145 company so they can do anything.
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That is also both my understanding and experience.
There are certainly some engineers that are prepared to replace a part with one salvaged. I suspect the more flight critical the part and the more complex the part the more careful they should rightly be.
There are certainly some engineers that are prepared to replace a part with one salvaged. I suspect the more flight critical the part and the more complex the part the more careful they should rightly be.
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Paul Nalson at Nalson Aviation will find you one but expect to pay 3000 euros for both parts of the noseleg assembly. There is no country that makes this part new with a form 1.
There are also 2 tomahawk noselegs to consider one for the larger wheel one (I know this as the tomahawk II) and one for the smaller one. The smaller one is rarer than the larger but both are very rare. You may need to scrap the aircraft and buy a new one, 7k isn't a lot and you'll have a spare engine.
Good luck.
There are also 2 tomahawk noselegs to consider one for the larger wheel one (I know this as the tomahawk II) and one for the smaller one. The smaller one is rarer than the larger but both are very rare. You may need to scrap the aircraft and buy a new one, 7k isn't a lot and you'll have a spare engine.
Good luck.