Remembering ATC Instructions!
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Remembering ATC Instructions!
Does anyone have any tips for remembering RT messages or is it just practice!
I am a new PPL and struggle to remember what's being said to me let alone reading it back!
Even if I write it down it's generally too quick!!
Thanks!
I am a new PPL and struggle to remember what's being said to me let alone reading it back!
Even if I write it down it's generally too quick!!
Thanks!
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A good memory and experience
It's a combination of a few things. Yes, a good memory helps and whilst in the early stages of being a 'new' pilot you are perhaps a little overwhelmed and with a limited ability to multitask, once you become more confident and less overwhelmed with the mechanics of flying and navigation you will have more brainpower available to remember ATC instructions.
Secondly, you will find over time that ATC instructions are very often a standard response and become almost predictable. I know that when I call Heathrow for special VFR they will come back with a long string of instruction. That instruction is more often than not the same each time! Once you've been doing it a while you will see what I mean.
Also, when you call for a basic service, say, and they give you a squark and a QNH, set them on the instruments before reading back. It might delay your response by a few seconds, but you stand more chance of getting it right first time.
Finally, as they say, aviate, navigate, communicate. If you miss what they are saying, ask 'say again'. We're all human and we're not all sky gods. They won't be offended.
I speak from my own experiences!!
Good luck,
Mona
Secondly, you will find over time that ATC instructions are very often a standard response and become almost predictable. I know that when I call Heathrow for special VFR they will come back with a long string of instruction. That instruction is more often than not the same each time! Once you've been doing it a while you will see what I mean.
Also, when you call for a basic service, say, and they give you a squark and a QNH, set them on the instruments before reading back. It might delay your response by a few seconds, but you stand more chance of getting it right first time.
Finally, as they say, aviate, navigate, communicate. If you miss what they are saying, ask 'say again'. We're all human and we're not all sky gods. They won't be offended.
I speak from my own experiences!!
Good luck,
Mona
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It comes with experience 
The experience really helps mainly because you know what the message is likely to be! If you already know what the message is likely to be, then you only really need to additionally remember the bits taht weren't as expected!
Except when in critical phases of flight such as take off / landing /circuit you should always write down any instructions or clearances you get, and then read back what you have written down...not what you remember!
Otherwise there is the possibility that you'll write down something incorrect, but make a correct readback. In that case the controller thinks you know what you are doing, but when you check the clearance that you wrote down you'll actually follow something different!
The experience really helps mainly because you know what the message is likely to be! If you already know what the message is likely to be, then you only really need to additionally remember the bits taht weren't as expected!
Except when in critical phases of flight such as take off / landing /circuit you should always write down any instructions or clearances you get, and then read back what you have written down...not what you remember!
Otherwise there is the possibility that you'll write down something incorrect, but make a correct readback. In that case the controller thinks you know what you are doing, but when you check the clearance that you wrote down you'll actually follow something different!
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Mate i had/have the same issue.
Kneepads do help especially if you jot down the important bits, i have a wee lamianted cheat sheet for the ATIS and note section in which to jot enroute freq and instructions (it has quick fuel calcs and stuff on it too) Remember you don't have to parrot back EXACTLY what is said just the instructions as a quick and in-accurate example:
ATC: Yankee Hotel Foxtrot Cleared to 3500ft or below track A via B report clear of NZNS air space, once clear contact Wellington on XXX.XX
YOU: Cleared 3500 ft or below track a via b report clear Wellington on XXX daysemal XX Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.
Some tips that helped me. Speak Slowly, i tend to rattle off requests like a machine gun, this in turn makes the controller speak faster too. try it, it really works if you slow down they will too.
Have some practice circuit bashing concetrating on your calls, we had one student who had real FRTO issues and the instructors called the tower. and asked them to give him all sorts of weird instructions.
In failing that sit in a room with an instructor who is the "tower" and do some postion reports, clearances etc. i did this and it did help, yes you do feel silly but they will do it!
Always remember you are allowed to "Say Again" and if you really want to amuse "Say Again Twice"
Yankee, Yankee, Hotel, Hotel,..
Kneepads do help especially if you jot down the important bits, i have a wee lamianted cheat sheet for the ATIS and note section in which to jot enroute freq and instructions (it has quick fuel calcs and stuff on it too) Remember you don't have to parrot back EXACTLY what is said just the instructions as a quick and in-accurate example:
ATC: Yankee Hotel Foxtrot Cleared to 3500ft or below track A via B report clear of NZNS air space, once clear contact Wellington on XXX.XX
YOU: Cleared 3500 ft or below track a via b report clear Wellington on XXX daysemal XX Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.
Some tips that helped me. Speak Slowly, i tend to rattle off requests like a machine gun, this in turn makes the controller speak faster too. try it, it really works if you slow down they will too.
Have some practice circuit bashing concetrating on your calls, we had one student who had real FRTO issues and the instructors called the tower. and asked them to give him all sorts of weird instructions.
In failing that sit in a room with an instructor who is the "tower" and do some postion reports, clearances etc. i did this and it did help, yes you do feel silly but they will do it!
Always remember you are allowed to "Say Again" and if you really want to amuse "Say Again Twice"
Yankee, Yankee, Hotel, Hotel,..
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Buy your self a vhf radio scanner, listen to it and get used to the language. If you make your self a di-pole aerial the range will be increased and you might be able to use it at home.
The other option I used was to ask nicely if I could sit in the tower and listen in. I was never refused.
Chris
The other option I used was to ask nicely if I could sit in the tower and listen in. I was never refused.
Chris
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As said, the calls are predictable most of the time, so there's not a lot to remember, really.
As far as the ATIS is concerned, I try to set as many instruments as possible while I'm listening, so that when I read them back I've got the numbers already in front of me. Obviously this works for the QHN straight away.
But also, if possible, I set the VOR OBS ring to the runway in use. This not only serves as a reminder for runway direction, but also gives me instant visualization what the wind is doing.
Not very useful if you need the VOR for an IFR departure but for VFR flight it works just fine.
Furthermore, just spending a few hours listening to R/T at various fields helps a lot. Either get your own scanner, or use one of the numerous sites on the internet that forward ATC traffic.
As far as the ATIS is concerned, I try to set as many instruments as possible while I'm listening, so that when I read them back I've got the numbers already in front of me. Obviously this works for the QHN straight away.
But also, if possible, I set the VOR OBS ring to the runway in use. This not only serves as a reminder for runway direction, but also gives me instant visualization what the wind is doing.
Not very useful if you need the VOR for an IFR departure but for VFR flight it works just fine.
Furthermore, just spending a few hours listening to R/T at various fields helps a lot. Either get your own scanner, or use one of the numerous sites on the internet that forward ATC traffic.
Affirm: speaking slowly helps to make the other party speak slower. Likewise, assuming a foreign and/or bizarre accent may get them to pronounce more clearly. Works especially well in multi-language areas.
Negative: above all, you should NOT be ready to hear what you think you could expect to hear.
Tip (repeated): get a cheapish receiver and go listen what happens at nearby aerodromes. Yes, plural: there may be much difference between local traditions. Try mentally answering before hearing the intended replier - but do NOT hit that talk button (I had to tape off mine).
Tip: next-room practice with an instructor sounds like a good idea, if you can turn up an instructor willing. Failing that, you could even practice with another student, perhaps taking each role in turn - if you do take care to record your sessions, for later discussion amongst yourselves AND with a party of authority.
Negative: above all, you should NOT be ready to hear what you think you could expect to hear.
Tip (repeated): get a cheapish receiver and go listen what happens at nearby aerodromes. Yes, plural: there may be much difference between local traditions. Try mentally answering before hearing the intended replier - but do NOT hit that talk button (I had to tape off mine).
Tip: next-room practice with an instructor sounds like a good idea, if you can turn up an instructor willing. Failing that, you could even practice with another student, perhaps taking each role in turn - if you do take care to record your sessions, for later discussion amongst yourselves AND with a party of authority.
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Enjoy the flying and don't worry too much about the radio, you'll find all comes reasonably naturally after a while. When I first started it scared the s*** out of me but at some point it I just stopped thinking about it and found my self talking/listening normally. It helps if you're learning to fly at an airfield with full ATC as that throws you in the deep end right off, I was at Cranfield.
Have a look at CAP_413, there's a PDF with embedded audio that'll give some good examples and you'll probably need to study it for your FRTOL exam anyway.
Have a look at CAP_413, there's a PDF with embedded audio that'll give some good examples and you'll probably need to study it for your FRTOL exam anyway.
I guess we have all been there......
When I took my first flying lessons, R22 helicopter, writing stuff down in flight was discouraged as you really need to be "hands on" all of the time.
A tip I picked up quite early on was to tune to the radio station you are going to talk to as early as you can and then listen. Often there will be other traffic talking to them and getting most of the info you will be getting, QNH, QFE, wind, circuit direction, runway in use, inbound reporting points etc. Get this info clear and set on your dials and then call them up, you will then only need to check what is given plus the additional bits unique to you such as squawk code, number ahead in circuit etc.
Now I fly 3 axis and thus have a spare hand I still don't write on a knee pad while in flight. I might add a frequency (in big permanent marker) to my chart if told to change to somewhere I hadn't planned to talk to en route.
It does get easier as you get used to what will be said and when you get used to the sound of the voice when scrunched by the radio.
Rans6...
When I took my first flying lessons, R22 helicopter, writing stuff down in flight was discouraged as you really need to be "hands on" all of the time.
A tip I picked up quite early on was to tune to the radio station you are going to talk to as early as you can and then listen. Often there will be other traffic talking to them and getting most of the info you will be getting, QNH, QFE, wind, circuit direction, runway in use, inbound reporting points etc. Get this info clear and set on your dials and then call them up, you will then only need to check what is given plus the additional bits unique to you such as squawk code, number ahead in circuit etc.
Now I fly 3 axis and thus have a spare hand I still don't write on a knee pad while in flight. I might add a frequency (in big permanent marker) to my chart if told to change to somewhere I hadn't planned to talk to en route.
It does get easier as you get used to what will be said and when you get used to the sound of the voice when scrunched by the radio.
Rans6...
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Where I learned to fly (big airport, CAS all around, very busy airspace), ATC was a factor from day one. My instructor taught be one extremely useful trick - don't try to understand what ATC are saying, just copy it down. Once you've got that, you can start to think....
Other than that, yes, experience has a lot to do with it. You will also learn what to expect in certain situations, but beware! More than one accident has happened because the pilot heard what he was conditioned to hear. And then, on this one occasion, the instructions were different. Which brings me back to the 'copy-read-understand' scenario as outlined above.
Other than that, yes, experience has a lot to do with it. You will also learn what to expect in certain situations, but beware! More than one accident has happened because the pilot heard what he was conditioned to hear. And then, on this one occasion, the instructions were different. Which brings me back to the 'copy-read-understand' scenario as outlined above.
Messages should come in a standard format, you can check what that is in CAP413. Most messages will be very predictable with only a few changes, so concentrate on the bits that are different.
When you start up and ask for aerodrome information you will be given the pressures, you can measure these in advance with you own altimeter so they should not surprise you.
Most important is to always readback information in the order it was given, that way you have a better chance of remembering it. If you reverse the order you will nearly always forget the first bit.
When you start up and ask for aerodrome information you will be given the pressures, you can measure these in advance with you own altimeter so they should not surprise you.
Most important is to always readback information in the order it was given, that way you have a better chance of remembering it. If you reverse the order you will nearly always forget the first bit.
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Most important is to always readback information in the order it was given, that way you have a better chance of remembering it. If you reverse the order you will nearly always forget the first bit.
This is what happens a lot where I fly:
ATC: "PH-ABC maintain runway heading until the VOR, thereafter right turn direct Oud Beijerland. Climb and maintain 3000 feet. The wind 050 at 8. Runway 06 cleared take-off."
Me: "Cleared take-off 06, maintain runway heading until the VOR, turn right direct Oud Beijerland, climb and maintain 3000 feet, PH-ABC"
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Creating templates can be useful for jogging your memory on what to expect from ATC. For example, writing things like this on a piece of paper:
And filling in the blanks the moment you hear them back is useful. Then you can either set the bug on your instruments (if you have them) and/or cross-check your flight path with what you've written down.
Practice makes perfect!
If you're going to fly through busy terminal airspace remember that instructions come quickly and they will expect you to respond quickly too.
Code:
What to say: Facility name: New York Approach Who you are: Cessna 431AC Where you are: 35 miles to the North East at 9,000 feet. What you want: Request transition Bravo airspace to ...
Code:
What to expect: Cleared for Bravo: Yes / No Squawk: Altimeter: Heading to fly: Altitude to fly:
Practice makes perfect!
If you're going to fly through busy terminal airspace remember that instructions come quickly and they will expect you to respond quickly too.
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Does anyone have any tips for remembering RT messages or is it just practice!
I am a new PPL and struggle to remember what's being said to me let alone reading it back!
Even if I write it down it's generally too quick!!
I am a new PPL and struggle to remember what's being said to me let alone reading it back!
Even if I write it down it's generally too quick!!
Always have a pencil ready before you press the button
If you put a totally-non-aviation person (but one with perfect hearing and wearing the best headset, etc) in a plane, he/she won't understand most of what ATC says. It's very context sensitive, which is why it takes a while to get the hang of it.
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There are two sorts of info
The things you can plan for ... e.g. QFE, QNH, Runway in use, The next frequency to tune to ...
All these things you can generally set up on the panel by listening or planning before you press the transmit button.
and the things you might not be able to plan for ... cleared via XXX not above YYY etc.
If you set up the bits you can plan for, you don't have to remember / write down anywhere near as much.
Yours
SD (goldfish brain)
The things you can plan for ... e.g. QFE, QNH, Runway in use, The next frequency to tune to ...
All these things you can generally set up on the panel by listening or planning before you press the transmit button.
and the things you might not be able to plan for ... cleared via XXX not above YYY etc.
If you set up the bits you can plan for, you don't have to remember / write down anywhere near as much.
Yours
SD (goldfish brain)
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Hi, you can find a software application to train your readback skills at: rejen-aviation.com - Download
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Tom boo, yes it's practice, but remember the controller and you are only trying to pass very basic info to allow flight to happen. it's not magic, although cool radio operators like to make it sound so. The vital bits of info ( to quote Richard Kipling) are who and where and what and why and how and when.
All you say on the radio at the end of the day is 'can I taxi?' ' can I take off?' 'can I go here?' and 'can I land?'. Perhaps better not to mention the two others being 'I'm lost please help' and I'm on fire please help'
All the controller ever says to you is basically yes go here, or no (not usually no but try it later) , and look out there's someone else around. They will never lose their temper with you and all of them have infinite patience because they are professionals.
Not sure if that helps you but it took me years to work out its not magic, its just talking. I wish my instructor had explained it to me. Hope that helps. Also remember some aircraft fly without radios. Convoluted speech isn't what keeps aircraft flying.
All you say on the radio at the end of the day is 'can I taxi?' ' can I take off?' 'can I go here?' and 'can I land?'. Perhaps better not to mention the two others being 'I'm lost please help' and I'm on fire please help'
All the controller ever says to you is basically yes go here, or no (not usually no but try it later) , and look out there's someone else around. They will never lose their temper with you and all of them have infinite patience because they are professionals.
Not sure if that helps you but it took me years to work out its not magic, its just talking. I wish my instructor had explained it to me. Hope that helps. Also remember some aircraft fly without radios. Convoluted speech isn't what keeps aircraft flying.
