Single Pilot CRM
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Single Pilot CRM
Howdy,
I have a CRM course coming up early next month. Having looked through the relevant posts over at the CRM forum I was wondering what thoughts you good people had in relation to Single Pilot CRM courses and if you feel any benefits of them? Having looked over the book it is, to me at least, very similiar to HP&L with a significant focus on decision making (or how to not make bad ones) and airmanship.
From those of you who have been on a similar course do you have any thoughts?
Cheers
Ryan
I have a CRM course coming up early next month. Having looked through the relevant posts over at the CRM forum I was wondering what thoughts you good people had in relation to Single Pilot CRM courses and if you feel any benefits of them? Having looked over the book it is, to me at least, very similiar to HP&L with a significant focus on decision making (or how to not make bad ones) and airmanship.
From those of you who have been on a similar course do you have any thoughts?
Cheers
Ryan
Yes.
CRM is every bit as relevant to operation of an SEP as it is to a big jet - I'm familiar with both environments and carry much knowledge and experience between the two.
However, CRM training, done well, is done in a company environment and built around that organisation, it's aircraft, and their procedures. That doesn't map necessarily all that well into private PPL flying. In an ideal world, there would be tailored CRM training readily available for SEP operations / private pilots.
I have come across references to such courses, but don't have direct experience of one, and I don't think that they're all that widely available.
In a nutshell, your company CRM course will do you favours in your SEP flying - but only if you take time to think about how to map those principles over to a quite different flying environment.
G
CRM is every bit as relevant to operation of an SEP as it is to a big jet - I'm familiar with both environments and carry much knowledge and experience between the two.
However, CRM training, done well, is done in a company environment and built around that organisation, it's aircraft, and their procedures. That doesn't map necessarily all that well into private PPL flying. In an ideal world, there would be tailored CRM training readily available for SEP operations / private pilots.
I have come across references to such courses, but don't have direct experience of one, and I don't think that they're all that widely available.
In a nutshell, your company CRM course will do you favours in your SEP flying - but only if you take time to think about how to map those principles over to a quite different flying environment.
G
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How much "CRM" is relevant to single pilot ops?
What is really important to SP ops is good cockpit organisation. For example sort out the approach plates 0.5-1hr before arrival, etc.
There is a whole load of "operational" stuff which is not taught in the PPL or the IR.
What is really important to SP ops is good cockpit organisation. For example sort out the approach plates 0.5-1hr before arrival, etc.
There is a whole load of "operational" stuff which is not taught in the PPL or the IR.
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Is this something of interest to PPL's?
I have been playing with the idea of designing a short course (an hour or 2) for practical IFR flying, from arriving at the airfield to arriving at destination based on decision making, airmanship, crm etc and trying to bring my jet experience across into the Single pilot ops.
Its all for making GA a safer place and hopefully have some fun. Any thoughts?
I have been playing with the idea of designing a short course (an hour or 2) for practical IFR flying, from arriving at the airfield to arriving at destination based on decision making, airmanship, crm etc and trying to bring my jet experience across into the Single pilot ops.
Its all for making GA a safer place and hopefully have some fun. Any thoughts?
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How much "CRM" is relevant to single pilot ops?
What is really important to SP ops is good cockpit organisation. For example sort out the approach plates 0.5-1hr before arrival, etc.
What is really important to SP ops is good cockpit organisation. For example sort out the approach plates 0.5-1hr before arrival, etc.
CRM was a buzzword for some time. Others have taken it's place, but the concept is still very valid.
CRM is sometimes thought to be crew resource management, but it is originally cockpit resource management. That covers every aspect of the flight; CRM is learning to better manage the flight.
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I was originally Cockpit Resource Management but it was thought to be too exclusive so they changed the buzzword to Crew to include all aspects of the industry mainly from an airline perspective. I still believe it has great relevance in all aspects of aviation.
I have heard many people say experience lead to developing good airmanship and thats all CRM is.
I have heard many people say experience lead to developing good airmanship and thats all CRM is.
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Sky Leisure held a CRM course at Shoreham last year which I attended and personally found really useful.
Link here: http://sanews.info/PDF%20files/2010/may10_SAN.pdf (Scroll down to Page 2 for relevent article).
Link here: http://sanews.info/PDF%20files/2010/may10_SAN.pdf (Scroll down to Page 2 for relevent article).
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How much "CRM" is relevant to single pilot ops?
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How much "CRM" is relevant to single pilot ops?
Situational Awareness
Threat and Error management
Communication (causal factor in 70%+ of all accidents)
Management of emergency situations
etc. etc.
Other than the fact that you can't have a fight on a single pilot aeroplane, you have all the problems that any multi-crew flightdeck will have, just without the ability to share the workload.
Avoid imitations
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Other than the fact that you can't have a fight on a single pilot aeroplane,
Oh no, you can't!
Ouch!
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Situational Awareness
Threat and Error management
Communication (causal factor in 70%+ of all accidents)
Management of emergency situations
etc. etc.
Threat and Error management
Communication (causal factor in 70%+ of all accidents)
Management of emergency situations
etc. etc.
Speaking of labels, I was sitting in a cafe next to a river about 10ft below, and there was a fence with a sign "SUDDEN DROP".
G
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What you are really saying is that there is very little European training for private IFR pilots who fly for real.
You get the PPL which is pretty crap for flying for real.
You get the CPL which is a stylised VFR "precision compass+map" exercise.
You get the IR which is an IFR version of the above.
Commercial (transport) pilots learn the extra stuff on specific courses.
You get the PPL which is pretty crap for flying for real.
You get the CPL which is a stylised VFR "precision compass+map" exercise.
You get the IR which is an IFR version of the above.
Commercial (transport) pilots learn the extra stuff on specific courses.
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What you are really saying is that there is very little European training for private IFR pilots who fly for real.
You seem to have a problem with CRM training. You seem to believe that any additional training beyond bare-bones certification is little more than "common sense," and not worth your time.
Perhaps you've never attended advanced training or type-specific training at one of the better training facilities such as Simuflite or Flight Safety International. These facilities run continuous enrichment courses that attendees can take, in addition to their type-specific training, and which are highly beneficial. These courses run the gamut anything from risk management to better communication. Professionals take this additional training seriously, perhaps because we don't think we already know everything.
CRM training includes exercises in addressing one's cockpit organization, integrating ATC, passengers, other pilots, one's resources, one's instruments, radio use, and a host of other subjects, to more efficiently and safely operate.
For those who haven't been training in a while, CRM is an excellent way to seek additional refresher training, which may or may not present new material, but which may enhance the way one thinks about the conduct and planning of a flight, handling an emergency, or making better use of the resources that one already has available.
You received your basic training at some point along the line, to include your private, possibly commercial, possibly instrument. Did anyone spend much time teaching you the finer points of making an off-field landing during that time? Did anyone give you specific instruction on landing in the mountains, or on truly rough fields? Did anyone spend time giving you instruction on proper ditching?
I see many comments here, especially from EU and UK pilots who have had little or no instruction in the use of carburetor heat, mixture control, aircraft systems, performance calculation, or the use of the aircraft flight manual or pilot operating handbook. Many posters comment that they were never given this instruction, or that the flight manual was never made available to them. It's rare to find a pilot posting from the UK, for example, who owns an POH/AFM for the aircraft they fly; most haven't handled one at all.
Would you suggest that training in these deficient areas is wasted, or that use of the mixture, carburetor heat, or performance calculations using the AFM are merely "common sense?" Would you suggest that such training is unnecessary? Where this training hasn't been provided for quite a few posters here, making it available and seeking it out after one's primary training is done is a very good idea. It's wise. It's not wasted. It's not inappropriate. It's not common sense, as the many posts on the subject here bear out. Certainly the vast majority of the posters here haven't a clue when discussions here occur about the use of carburetor heat, nor about mixture usage. Likewise, systems understanding, I find, is severely lacking. Performance, and the calculation thereof, is not well understood.
These are all basic tenets of training that should have been ingrained early in the training process, but clearly were not. Numerous posters have responded, when I've queried them here, that they never received much, if any such training in these areas. This training isn't simply a good idea; it's essential. It's basic to operating the airplane safely.
Likewise, CRM is essential to operating the airplane safely. Whether one is flying in a crew environment or single pilot, proper CRM is essential. Such training, and the philosophy that surrounds it, comes in various packages and names, but it's certainly not wasted training, and is beneficial to anyone who has a mind open enough to receive it. The only time I find it's not beneficial is when provided to those arrogant enough to think they already know it all.
One may have passed the practical test for a certificate or rating, but it certainly doesn't mean one knows all there is to know, or that one couldn't use additional training. Take it where ever one can get it. That certainly includes a good course in resource management.
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IO540
The general tone of your postings always seems to dismiss professional pilots as being far inferior to your good self and needing the high levels of training they receive because they have all been trained incorrectly to start with and are all robots anyway.
Whilst I have met many who do indeed fulfil your criteria, I have met many who are exceptionally good operators, always strive to improve and have a level of knowledge and awareness I have never yet seen in someone who only flies a couple of hundred hours a year.
I read a lot of your postings and enjoy them. You are clearly knowledgable and informed. And the flying you do is serious stuff.
On this subject though your prejudice against all things airline is tainting your ability to have a balanced view.
IMHO CRM training is even more relevant to the private pilot as to the multi crew airline person. You are on your own, no one watching to give ideas to improve your operation which you just wouldn't have thought of and now you know them they seem perfectly obvious.
The private 'serious' pilot often travels for business purposes and has a lot of external influences on them bar the operation of the aircraft.
To get back to the point don't dismiss it too readily. A lot of far far more experienced guys than yourelf take something out of every CRM day they do. There can always be some grumpy old bugger who thinks he doesn't need to be there. Although thankfully increasingly less nowadays. Please don't let that be you, for your own sake. There are many reasons the accident rate is usually on a downward trend in commercial aviation. Courses like this are one such reason.
The general tone of your postings always seems to dismiss professional pilots as being far inferior to your good self and needing the high levels of training they receive because they have all been trained incorrectly to start with and are all robots anyway.
Whilst I have met many who do indeed fulfil your criteria, I have met many who are exceptionally good operators, always strive to improve and have a level of knowledge and awareness I have never yet seen in someone who only flies a couple of hundred hours a year.
I read a lot of your postings and enjoy them. You are clearly knowledgable and informed. And the flying you do is serious stuff.
On this subject though your prejudice against all things airline is tainting your ability to have a balanced view.
IMHO CRM training is even more relevant to the private pilot as to the multi crew airline person. You are on your own, no one watching to give ideas to improve your operation which you just wouldn't have thought of and now you know them they seem perfectly obvious.
The private 'serious' pilot often travels for business purposes and has a lot of external influences on them bar the operation of the aircraft.
To get back to the point don't dismiss it too readily. A lot of far far more experienced guys than yourelf take something out of every CRM day they do. There can always be some grumpy old bugger who thinks he doesn't need to be there. Although thankfully increasingly less nowadays. Please don't let that be you, for your own sake. There are many reasons the accident rate is usually on a downward trend in commercial aviation. Courses like this are one such reason.
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CRM may just be "common sense" (as IO540 claims) but the trouble with "common sense" is that it's not very common (as IO540 proves regularly).
One objective of CRM is to fast-track common sense into inexperienced pilots and then, as Ghengis correctly points out, refresher training proves to you that you never stop learning and reinforces the lessons learned previously.
Sadly IO540 would appear to be just the sort of pilot who would benefit from CRM training - because he thinks he knows it all. Equally sadly, these know-it-all types are usually the ones who are not prepared to embrace CRM because they think that they've learned all that there is to learn! It is a fact of life that experienced does not always equate to competent and in my previous position at an FTO based on an airfield used by lots of owner-pilots that fact was reaffirmed almost daily.
One objective of CRM is to fast-track common sense into inexperienced pilots and then, as Ghengis correctly points out, refresher training proves to you that you never stop learning and reinforces the lessons learned previously.
Sadly IO540 would appear to be just the sort of pilot who would benefit from CRM training - because he thinks he knows it all. Equally sadly, these know-it-all types are usually the ones who are not prepared to embrace CRM because they think that they've learned all that there is to learn! It is a fact of life that experienced does not always equate to competent and in my previous position at an FTO based on an airfield used by lots of owner-pilots that fact was reaffirmed almost daily.
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I never had the slightest issue with professional (actually working airline) pilots and enjoy flying with them because I always learn something useful.
What I don't like is pomposity and arrogance propped up by a self professed "professional" pilot status. I know they worked their balls off over many years and mortgaged themselves to their ears getting there but that is no excuse for being pompous.
What I don't like is pomposity and arrogance propped up by a self professed "professional" pilot status. I know they worked their balls off over many years and mortgaged themselves to their ears getting there but that is no excuse for being pompous.
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CRM as practiced by the airlines has little relation SP ops. MPA CRM is a set of techniques and practices that are designed to ensure an accurate and consistent view of situation awareness shared between the flightdeck crew. Evaluating MPA CRM means evaluating key behaviour markers, more than anything else.
Clearly a single pilot is not concerned with such synergies.
Obviously the subset of the NOTECHS system pertaining to levels of situational awareness and the subsequent process of risk and threat evaluatioin, error trapping, error mitigation and error correction is relevant to SP and MP alike. But I would regard that as the bedrock of airmanship and not CRM.
Clearly a single pilot is not concerned with such synergies.
Obviously the subset of the NOTECHS system pertaining to levels of situational awareness and the subsequent process of risk and threat evaluatioin, error trapping, error mitigation and error correction is relevant to SP and MP alike. But I would regard that as the bedrock of airmanship and not CRM.
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Hold up guys... I think we got some oversensitive people here, claiming that IO540's comments are degrading to 'their' profession!
I fly in a CRM jet environment most days, and I take IO540's side on this one - I came up the ladder as modular as it is possible to go modular! CRM makes my JOB much easier than I imagine it would have been decades before I was even born. But that's where it belongs - in a multi crew professional environment.
For PPL flying, anyone who's had a half decent instructor needs none of this, unless of course they are interested in it for their own knowledge. Because during the course of your PPL training, your instructor equips you with all the 'SP CRM' you will need to be a proficient pilot. It's organisation and multitasking effectively. Not CRM. Ok ok, it used to stand for one thing, now another, but that's besides the point. CRM is primarily in place to reinforce the 1+1= >2 concept, to utilise two minds working in a confined space so they are fluidly helping and reinforcing each other, as opposed to getting in each others' way. It is designed around company SOPs, therefore has little place in a private environment.
My standing is - there's no substitute for good cockpit and time management when flying as a single pilot. Somebody mentioned common sense is somewhat lacking - I disagree, I think most people who have become PPL holders have the where-with-all to learn from themselves as well as others. With the exception of, what always seems to be, the middle aged, lazy, aristocratic types. They're normally pretty dangerous in my experience... And hey, maybe they could do with a little CRM training, if only to understand their own limitations...
Hey ho
I fly in a CRM jet environment most days, and I take IO540's side on this one - I came up the ladder as modular as it is possible to go modular! CRM makes my JOB much easier than I imagine it would have been decades before I was even born. But that's where it belongs - in a multi crew professional environment.
For PPL flying, anyone who's had a half decent instructor needs none of this, unless of course they are interested in it for their own knowledge. Because during the course of your PPL training, your instructor equips you with all the 'SP CRM' you will need to be a proficient pilot. It's organisation and multitasking effectively. Not CRM. Ok ok, it used to stand for one thing, now another, but that's besides the point. CRM is primarily in place to reinforce the 1+1= >2 concept, to utilise two minds working in a confined space so they are fluidly helping and reinforcing each other, as opposed to getting in each others' way. It is designed around company SOPs, therefore has little place in a private environment.
My standing is - there's no substitute for good cockpit and time management when flying as a single pilot. Somebody mentioned common sense is somewhat lacking - I disagree, I think most people who have become PPL holders have the where-with-all to learn from themselves as well as others. With the exception of, what always seems to be, the middle aged, lazy, aristocratic types. They're normally pretty dangerous in my experience... And hey, maybe they could do with a little CRM training, if only to understand their own limitations...
Hey ho