Indifferent partner
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I'm not sure if this applies to many other ladies, but emphasizing the pleasures of private flying over the general interest in all things aviation may, just may!, help.
Subsequently she has come to with me to Marseille and also a trip from our place in Scotland down to London for a weekend. She's always been supportive, even on the occasion once when we had to delay a trip by a day due to fog at the airfield. By taking her places I think it keeps a purpose to flying which means she is more likely to view it in a favourable light.
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Since my partner is as obsessed with flying his aeroplane as I am mine, I cannot but add that I think it is about testing the water in the same way one does with other family members: a short flight in smooth air to start with, if at all possible. You can tell fairly soon if there's any interest beyond the sightseeing aspect, or getting from A to B, if that's part of the mission. More importantly, unless you are incredibly thick-skinned, it's fairly easy to judge what your partner/mother/sister/brother is doing. Beyond the polite response, at worst, (if you hate it, say so, you're allowed, you're family...), there are fewer subtle reactions than one might think.
So, having got the response and reactions & read the body language if necessary, you know whether to work on future flights or leave it there for the time being. At least at this stage they can see what a small aeroplane looks and feels like (how many people never get up close to anything with one engine (or none)?) and thus understand a whole lot more about what you are going to be enthusing. For all those who ask the questions and have enthusiasms of their own, there are as many who see what it is and how you love it, but are happy for you to do your thing and will likely be proud of you for doing it too, but just don't want to be involved. Different passions are a good thing too. Just be prepared to do that one round of golf or whatever in the interests of balance
So, having got the response and reactions & read the body language if necessary, you know whether to work on future flights or leave it there for the time being. At least at this stage they can see what a small aeroplane looks and feels like (how many people never get up close to anything with one engine (or none)?) and thus understand a whole lot more about what you are going to be enthusing. For all those who ask the questions and have enthusiasms of their own, there are as many who see what it is and how you love it, but are happy for you to do your thing and will likely be proud of you for doing it too, but just don't want to be involved. Different passions are a good thing too. Just be prepared to do that one round of golf or whatever in the interests of balance
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OMG so much of this seems soooooo familier.
Was into competition motor cycling when met wife to be, there was mild interest shown but being somewhat cynical these days I believe it was more my bank balance that held her main interest.
Due to failing down the stairs (slipped on something she'd left on them!) I sustained a back injury which ended the m/c stuff. Shortly after that met up with local PPL guys and having always had had an interest in aviation, to cut a long story I went and completed my PPL. During the learning phase there was very little interest shown and all I got was a "thats nice" when my licence dropped through the letter box.
Since then interest has been zero, she hasnt even been up to see my aircraft which is all of 15mins away. Ive tried the quite chat, what her concerns are etc etc all to no avail. However its a different story re her interest which involves horses. If 100% attention isnt paid to hearing about every hoof problem, jump, fall and latest horsey rumour all hell is let loose!! Our 2 daughters are also involved with them and I love to go an see them all riding and I try to help out at the stables when I can - love seeing them enjoying their hobby. Interesting thing is that they cost more than my flying (apparently they have to all have a spare horse as well) and need daily maintainece!
My wife used to be happy doing commercial flights to holiday destinations but that changed after a trip back from Tunisa on a UK airline when they just announced mid journey that there was "an issue with the plane" and that we were going into Gatwick. We flew back at low level so I presumed there was a pressurisation problem although we we never told and after a hairy landing (with attendant fire engines) the crew up and left us on the tarmac for 2hrs! The event freaked her out and I have every sympathy. She has announced that she hates flying, when Im at airshows for weekends she wont contact me, never asks how it was - basically if it was flying related I was blanked! Our relationship reached a point when on one occasion I returned happily home to be greeted with " I thought flying was dangerous but you keep comming back!" Had the impression she wasnt joking.
O how things have changed recently, met a female who is learning to fly so to help her with her map reading I took her for a few flights and then to an airshow or two. To my delight she loved the airshows and asks if she can go to more. My wife has now become VERY interested as to my flying to the point where its now 1001 questions on every trip out. Not sure what was worse, no interest or the inquisition on every flight!
Was into competition motor cycling when met wife to be, there was mild interest shown but being somewhat cynical these days I believe it was more my bank balance that held her main interest.
Due to failing down the stairs (slipped on something she'd left on them!) I sustained a back injury which ended the m/c stuff. Shortly after that met up with local PPL guys and having always had had an interest in aviation, to cut a long story I went and completed my PPL. During the learning phase there was very little interest shown and all I got was a "thats nice" when my licence dropped through the letter box.
Since then interest has been zero, she hasnt even been up to see my aircraft which is all of 15mins away. Ive tried the quite chat, what her concerns are etc etc all to no avail. However its a different story re her interest which involves horses. If 100% attention isnt paid to hearing about every hoof problem, jump, fall and latest horsey rumour all hell is let loose!! Our 2 daughters are also involved with them and I love to go an see them all riding and I try to help out at the stables when I can - love seeing them enjoying their hobby. Interesting thing is that they cost more than my flying (apparently they have to all have a spare horse as well) and need daily maintainece!
My wife used to be happy doing commercial flights to holiday destinations but that changed after a trip back from Tunisa on a UK airline when they just announced mid journey that there was "an issue with the plane" and that we were going into Gatwick. We flew back at low level so I presumed there was a pressurisation problem although we we never told and after a hairy landing (with attendant fire engines) the crew up and left us on the tarmac for 2hrs! The event freaked her out and I have every sympathy. She has announced that she hates flying, when Im at airshows for weekends she wont contact me, never asks how it was - basically if it was flying related I was blanked! Our relationship reached a point when on one occasion I returned happily home to be greeted with " I thought flying was dangerous but you keep comming back!" Had the impression she wasnt joking.
O how things have changed recently, met a female who is learning to fly so to help her with her map reading I took her for a few flights and then to an airshow or two. To my delight she loved the airshows and asks if she can go to more. My wife has now become VERY interested as to my flying to the point where its now 1001 questions on every trip out. Not sure what was worse, no interest or the inquisition on every flight!
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Sounds like you need to upgrade your relationship 
Men are such mugs, and I include myself in that 100%.
Tell me about it. My ex was horse mad too. It is a totally all-consuming hobby, with heavy emotions flowing whenever The Horse throws a wobbly, which given it has the intelligence and manipulative manners of a 2 year old child, is quite often. The whole thing is well supported by an army of horse dentists and farriers of whom most drive top end BMWs, not to mention some good looking guys who "fix fences"
This part of the UK (Sussex) is jam packed with women who desperately look for a man (any man, so long as he doesn't beat them up too often) who has enough money to buy a 4x4, a horsebox, and pay for stabling or a field, etc. I fell for that trap back in the 1980s
Compared to horses, a plane is no trouble at all... more expensive though - a horse costs about £3000/year and that is if you have your own field (we had 3 acres; my ex still lives there, on my account ). If you have to pay for a full livery it is probably comparable to flying 50-100hrs/year.
I would not have gone out with another horsey woman, after that.
The funny thing is that if a man was into horses, and was essentially jobless, no woman would go after him
Men are such mugs, and I include myself in that 100%.
However its a different story re her interest which involves horses. If 100% attention isnt paid to hearing about every hoof problem, jump, fall and latest horsey rumour all hell is let loose!! Our 2 daughters are also involved with them and I love to go an see them all riding and I try to help out at the stables when I can - love seeing them enjoying their hobby. Interesting thing is that they cost more than my flying (apparently they have to all have a spare horse as well) and need daily maintainece!
This part of the UK (Sussex) is jam packed with women who desperately look for a man (any man, so long as he doesn't beat them up too often) who has enough money to buy a 4x4, a horsebox, and pay for stabling or a field, etc. I fell for that trap back in the 1980s
Compared to horses, a plane is no trouble at all... more expensive though - a horse costs about £3000/year and that is if you have your own field (we had 3 acres; my ex still lives there, on my account
). If you have to pay for a full livery it is probably comparable to flying 50-100hrs/year.I would not have gone out with another horsey woman, after that.
The funny thing is that if a man was into horses, and was essentially jobless, no woman would go after him
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Backpacker, in post no. 38, brings up the most IMPORTANT suggestion of all.
The trouble with taking your lady up with you is that almost all men like to show off and impress the female. Sitting in the RH seat with a half-baked low time pilot who is mightily convinced of his ability is not usually a good experience for any woman. Especially if she is his partner and is well aware of all his shortcomings.
Say "I would love to take you flying, dear, but I would be much happier if first you could accept my gift to you of a day's flying with a PROFESSIONAL INSTRUCTOR!' Find a flying school with a female instructor - who will not only be safe, but can be a role model. The suggestion of Backpacker that your partner qualify as a Safety Pilot who can manage if you become incapacitated (any worse than usual) is excellent. Only after she has accepted this gift and still wants to fly with you, keep it short and smooth.
Buy her an airband set, arrange for her to learn to use the radio.
Let HER plan your trip together. Check the weather, use the charts etc.
Or even better, go on a course together at a gliding club next summer!
The trouble with taking your lady up with you is that almost all men like to show off and impress the female. Sitting in the RH seat with a half-baked low time pilot who is mightily convinced of his ability is not usually a good experience for any woman. Especially if she is his partner and is well aware of all his shortcomings.
Say "I would love to take you flying, dear, but I would be much happier if first you could accept my gift to you of a day's flying with a PROFESSIONAL INSTRUCTOR!' Find a flying school with a female instructor - who will not only be safe, but can be a role model. The suggestion of Backpacker that your partner qualify as a Safety Pilot who can manage if you become incapacitated (any worse than usual) is excellent. Only after she has accepted this gift and still wants to fly with you, keep it short and smooth.
Buy her an airband set, arrange for her to learn to use the radio.
Let HER plan your trip together. Check the weather, use the charts etc.
Or even better, go on a course together at a gliding club next summer!
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I found that the more I told my girlfriend about weather and possible system failure modes, the more concerned she has become about flying - not just ours but commercial flying too. She has a Philosophy PhD and is super bright and you would think an explanation of some risk factor would be accepted, but she has a point that when I am flying in IMC she asks "how can you be sure there is nothing lurking in there"? Fortunately I am no fan of long enroute IMC either...
GA pilots tend to have a gory interest in crashes, and the evidence thus far on the recent A380 "engine back end walkabout" suggests it was far more serious than what made the press. It is easy to get talking to one's family etc about these things, but it doesn't reduce their fears.
A good point about the copilot course but not many owners of the fairly advanced planes would let the typical PPL-scene instructor go off in their plane. Few instructors know about engine management for example.
But basically "normal" women tend to be more interested in the destinations, rather than flying there, and that's perfectly fine.
A nice clean modern plane does help a lot
GA pilots tend to have a gory interest in crashes, and the evidence thus far on the recent A380 "engine back end walkabout" suggests it was far more serious than what made the press. It is easy to get talking to one's family etc about these things, but it doesn't reduce their fears.
A good point about the copilot course but not many owners of the fairly advanced planes would let the typical PPL-scene instructor go off in their plane. Few instructors know about engine management for example.
But basically "normal" women tend to be more interested in the destinations, rather than flying there, and that's perfectly fine.
A nice clean modern plane does help a lot
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a little knowledge can sometimes be a bad thing
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Well I don't have the problem of a husband or partner haha but my family have no interest in flying at all- besides the cost and how many hours until I get the lisence! I can't remember mum askingbout safety really other than whn I mentioned going solo. My sister just cuts me off when I mention planes and my best friend talks to me but just doesn't understand the fun of it or hoe I'm so interested and obviously I can't take either of them up with me nor afford flying lessons for them so I'm stuck with telling all you guys how cool it is which you allready know!! And I don't like telling people at air cadets boitit either cus it seems like boasting. Sorry about spelling too I'm in a rush and my iPod corrects me- if I was your wife I'd be happy to talk to you about flying haha
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Good on you, Hannah! If you can find a copy on Amazon, get hold of Ernest K. Gahn's book FATE IS THE HUNTER.
And if you live in the midlands, we have 15 people near your age in our gliding club at Shenington who enjoy yakking about it all! They usually go solo on the 16th birthday! (weather permitting). Friday evening is the usual meet up time, but during winter, the kids turn up on Sundays.
as the old song has it, "....I became a bore when I learned to soar, just watch them edge away....!"
And if you live in the midlands, we have 15 people near your age in our gliding club at Shenington who enjoy yakking about it all! They usually go solo on the 16th birthday! (weather permitting). Friday evening is the usual meet up time, but during winter, the kids turn up on Sundays.
as the old song has it, "....I became a bore when I learned to soar, just watch them edge away....!"
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Which part? If you are referring to the acronym, it stands for "For Fυck's Sake", which curiously, is meant to be an euphemism for "For Christ/God/Someone important in your culture's Sake".
If instead you are referring to Gertrude's comment itself, he is pointing out that you have misquoted a line from a poem by Alexander Pope, and how that is a very common occurrence.
If instead you are referring to Gertrude's comment itself, he is pointing out that you have misquoted a line from a poem by Alexander Pope, and how that is a very common occurrence.
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a poem by Alexander Pope
The other bit that most people know from that poem, and are less likely to misquote, is "fools rush in where angels fear to tread".
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If you are referring to the acronym, it stands for "For F***'s Sake"
Well I don't have the problem of a husband or partner haha but my family have no interest in flying at all- besides the cost and how many hours until I get the lisence! I can't remember mum askingbout safety really other than whn I mentioned going solo. My sister just cuts me off when I mention planes and my best friend talks to me but just doesn't understand the fun of it or hoe I'm so interested and obviously I can't take either of them up with me nor afford flying lessons for them so I'm stuck with telling all you guys how cool it is which you allready know!! And I don't like telling people at air cadets boitit either cus it seems like boasting. Sorry about spelling too I'm in a rush and my iPod corrects me- if I was your wife I'd be happy to talk to you about flying haha
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Dublinpilot:
Well yes and no. If you lump all GA risk together then yes, you're correct. But then not all flights are of equal risk. Some of us, doing this as a hobby and not a necessity, simply stay in the airport restaurant drinking coffee and swapping lies when the weather is dodgy. Others using their plane as a "must get there" device, are more inclined to take risks. I for one have long realized that as a VFR day/night/on-top pilot, if I MUST get there, my VW is a better bet than my Beech so I play it safe and drive.
Flying VFR on a fine day in a basic, simple, spamcan doesn't carry the same risk as trying to do single-pilot IFR in icing conditions in a twin when the critical engine conks out. It is possible to manage one's risk, especially if one only flies for fun, by being selective in the types of flights we do and the conditions we fly in. At this time of the year in my part of the world, sometimes snoozing safely by the wood stove on a Saturday afternoon looks an awful lot more attractive than flying... or if I'm really up to it, an afternoon of skiing instead (which is probably at least as high risk as flying at my age
)
But that is only true of commerica air travel. The risks involved in light GA are significantly higher than that.
Flying VFR on a fine day in a basic, simple, spamcan doesn't carry the same risk as trying to do single-pilot IFR in icing conditions in a twin when the critical engine conks out. It is possible to manage one's risk, especially if one only flies for fun, by being selective in the types of flights we do and the conditions we fly in. At this time of the year in my part of the world, sometimes snoozing safely by the wood stove on a Saturday afternoon looks an awful lot more attractive than flying... or if I'm really up to it, an afternoon of skiing instead (which is probably at least as high risk as flying at my age
)
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Ah yes. Usually the pilot's fault, when a light aircraft goes splat. Either get-home-itis, or an exaggerated opinion of his capability....
Why do they call the Beechcraft Bonanza the Doctor Killer?
Why do they call the Beechcraft Bonanza the Doctor Killer?
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That's the good part of GA risk. It is down to you.
And simple things (like having some juice in the tanks) make a big difference to the individual's risk profile.
I read all the accident reports I can, and like all of us try to take something "home" from each of them, but sadly there is nothing to take home from most of them.
However, what we really see is many peoples' crap PPL training coming through. They were OK so long as they stuck to sunny Sundays flying down the coast, but they could not handle anything more tricky. I still know pilots who have done far more hours than I have and who can't read tafs or metars.
Unfortunately the accident reports leave out what to me would be the really interesting stuff: the pilot's psychology, and his detailed flying history. That stuff has to be relevant. Very occassionally, there is a crash where I happen to know a bit more of the background, and while this tends to throw up additional questions, it does provide a useful background.
The problem with that description is that there is another side to it.
To make a manufacturing success in GA, one has to appeal to new, young, and wealthy pilots. It is no good trying to flog modern stuff to the old anoraks who make up most of GA - in the UK, USA or anywhere else.
But every time somebody tries this type of marketing (which is totally necessary) they end up killing a bunch of "doctors"
And simple things (like having some juice in the tanks) make a big difference to the individual's risk profile.
I read all the accident reports I can, and like all of us try to take something "home" from each of them, but sadly there is nothing to take home from most of them.
However, what we really see is many peoples' crap PPL training coming through. They were OK so long as they stuck to sunny Sundays flying down the coast, but they could not handle anything more tricky. I still know pilots who have done far more hours than I have and who can't read tafs or metars.
Unfortunately the accident reports leave out what to me would be the really interesting stuff: the pilot's psychology, and his detailed flying history. That stuff has to be relevant. Very occassionally, there is a crash where I happen to know a bit more of the background, and while this tends to throw up additional questions, it does provide a useful background.
Why do they call the Beechcraft Bonanza the Doctor Killer?
To make a manufacturing success in GA, one has to appeal to new, young, and wealthy pilots. It is no good trying to flog modern stuff to the old anoraks who make up most of GA - in the UK, USA or anywhere else.
But every time somebody tries this type of marketing (which is totally necessary) they end up killing a bunch of "doctors"
I guess I have to be thankful. Both partners I've had in my flying career love flying. My wife is proud of us owning our Mooney and loves to fly in it, even the fact that we 'll have to shell out a lot of cash now for the engine revision has not really dampened her comitment to stay behind me here. I know I am lucky.
My first partner many years ago was more than happy to fly with me in my C150 at the time and we went all over Europe in it.
I hear a lot of negative things from others however, most having been said here already. I also think it is not a pheonmenon restricted to aviation but more of a general problem. Relationships today do often take on the character of a battle for dominance and a total lack of mutual understanding for the other's interest and needs. Even the very popular "try before you marry" option today is not foolproof, many partners change radically even during the honeymoon, once they got the papers signed.
Another issue these days is that many of us are simply overworked in all regards and can not really enjoy anything outside work anymore. It is sort of understandable that after collapsing on the sofa on Friday evening, some people won't simply have the energy to accompany their significant other for whatever pursuit they wish to share over the weekend and their idea of quality time is to finally get the sleep they lack from the 18 hours days they put in over the week.
Before I decided to go back into aviaiton after a 7 year hiatus I talked about it with my wife and she encouraged me, a bit to my surprise as she is usually economical with our finances. Yet she determined that I would be much nicer to have around if I have something to balance from my otherwise very stressful life and she'd not mind the occasional trip to the med herself. The very idea to be at the beach after 2 flight hours became pretty attractive to her as well.
I reckon communication is the most important bit about all of this. Make your intentions and wishes clear, and try to sell it by getting her to see what is in it for her. If all that does not work, then then it is a tough decision to take.
Best regards
AN2 driver
My first partner many years ago was more than happy to fly with me in my C150 at the time and we went all over Europe in it.
I hear a lot of negative things from others however, most having been said here already. I also think it is not a pheonmenon restricted to aviation but more of a general problem. Relationships today do often take on the character of a battle for dominance and a total lack of mutual understanding for the other's interest and needs. Even the very popular "try before you marry" option today is not foolproof, many partners change radically even during the honeymoon, once they got the papers signed.
Another issue these days is that many of us are simply overworked in all regards and can not really enjoy anything outside work anymore. It is sort of understandable that after collapsing on the sofa on Friday evening, some people won't simply have the energy to accompany their significant other for whatever pursuit they wish to share over the weekend and their idea of quality time is to finally get the sleep they lack from the 18 hours days they put in over the week.
Before I decided to go back into aviaiton after a 7 year hiatus I talked about it with my wife and she encouraged me, a bit to my surprise as she is usually economical with our finances. Yet she determined that I would be much nicer to have around if I have something to balance from my otherwise very stressful life and she'd not mind the occasional trip to the med herself. The very idea to be at the beach after 2 flight hours became pretty attractive to her as well.
I reckon communication is the most important bit about all of this. Make your intentions and wishes clear, and try to sell it by getting her to see what is in it for her. If all that does not work, then then it is a tough decision to take.
Best regards
AN2 driver
forgot something
Some time this year when going out to my plane on the apron of ZRH I noted a couple going for their obviously first flight together, both in their early 20ties. Either the guy had been a tad boastful when telling her what plane he was actually flying, or she had a totally wrong impression of the term private airplane, as she headed straight for a Falcon 20 sitting on the tarmac in the general direction they were walking. When he pointed out to her that, err, sorry, it's not that one but the Archer behind it, the lady did not take it too kindly and dressed the guy down quite vocally in the sense of "how dare you to even suggest that I step on anything but a business jet" e.t.c. to the stunned silence of some onlookers. She marched off on her high heels with surprising speed and vanished, probably never to be seen again.
Good riddance for him I reckon, she might have proven a much more expensive pasttime then flying.
Some time this year when going out to my plane on the apron of ZRH I noted a couple going for their obviously first flight together, both in their early 20ties. Either the guy had been a tad boastful when telling her what plane he was actually flying, or she had a totally wrong impression of the term private airplane, as she headed straight for a Falcon 20 sitting on the tarmac in the general direction they were walking. When he pointed out to her that, err, sorry, it's not that one but the Archer behind it, the lady did not take it too kindly and dressed the guy down quite vocally in the sense of "how dare you to even suggest that I step on anything but a business jet" e.t.c. to the stunned silence of some onlookers. She marched off on her high heels with surprising speed and vanished, probably never to be seen again.
Good riddance for him I reckon, she might have proven a much more expensive pasttime then flying.