Shipping costs across atlantic
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Shipping costs across atlantic
Looking at a Cessna 337 near chicago, with time expired engines.
Interested in the general costs in getting it freighted across the pond by container ?
Also would I have to get it driven across to an east coast port first ?
Interested in the general costs in getting it freighted across the pond by container ?
Also would I have to get it driven across to an east coast port first ?
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You have probably done your homework, ,but, is it not cheaper to have the engines overhauled in the US and fly the thing over?
My point is that getting a dismantled airplane with time expired engines on the UK register will cost you an arm and a leg.
With engines done in the US and an Export CofA by a DER would make it a lot easier in your dealings with the CAA.
I tried the other method many years ago and it was very difficult and I had US and UK licences.
Good luck.
My point is that getting a dismantled airplane with time expired engines on the UK register will cost you an arm and a leg.
With engines done in the US and an Export CofA by a DER would make it a lot easier in your dealings with the CAA.
I tried the other method many years ago and it was very difficult and I had US and UK licences.
Good luck.
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Thanks for the tip Speedbird
I'm looking for all the advise I can get on this. Could you email me @ [email protected] (my correct address, not the one listed on my profile)
with any more info.
My logic behind this is. I have chosen a C337 to meet my needs. A type not common in UK. Looking at all the examples available with various engine times against the tbo of 1500 hr for the Con 360's. It made financial sense to buy this example with expired engines (original) and low airframe time. Fit new motors either in USA or Here and have a zero times plane with known history of the engines as well. All for less than the low time examples on offer.
Also looking for info to decide on weather to put it on the Caa reg or keep in on a N number and gain a Faa licence to fly it over here.
Haven't found anyone overhere to offer any advise as yet. any appreciated.
I'm looking for all the advise I can get on this. Could you email me @ [email protected] (my correct address, not the one listed on my profile)
with any more info.
My logic behind this is. I have chosen a C337 to meet my needs. A type not common in UK. Looking at all the examples available with various engine times against the tbo of 1500 hr for the Con 360's. It made financial sense to buy this example with expired engines (original) and low airframe time. Fit new motors either in USA or Here and have a zero times plane with known history of the engines as well. All for less than the low time examples on offer.
Also looking for info to decide on weather to put it on the Caa reg or keep in on a N number and gain a Faa licence to fly it over here.
Haven't found anyone overhere to offer any advise as yet. any appreciated.
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Wasn't the C336/337 type banned from certain GA airfields on account of its noisiness a few years back? I recall seeing a few of them around in the 70s, but they seemed to disappear by the 80s. I recall Elstree banned them. Just a point that may be worth checking at your home & regular destinations before you bring it over.
I flew one in the states in '83. Great fun but it WAS noisy.
I flew one in the states in '83. Great fun but it WAS noisy.
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having imported aircraft my advice would be to get ALL the work done in the USA new engines from the maker and not some OH shop that will only honor the waranty if the engines are returned to the shop ,also overhaul the props ,do ALL the AD,s and get the radio fit the way you want it , this will all cost you about half the european price then when it is ready to come over you MUST i will repeat that MUST get an export C of A or puting it on the british register will be very costly if not imposable.
Keep away from maintenance outfits on the coasts as some who have had a lot of business with the brits know to much about european prices and load there prices acordingly.
and why put it in a box after a few hours of shakedown flying tha atlantic should not be to much of a problem for a good ferry pilot.
Keep away from maintenance outfits on the coasts as some who have had a lot of business with the brits know to much about european prices and load there prices acordingly.
and why put it in a box after a few hours of shakedown flying tha atlantic should not be to much of a problem for a good ferry pilot.
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Lightning,
From what I have read about registering an imported US a/c in UK on CAA or FAA register, FAA is far easier. I do not know what you are intending to use the 337 for, but you could get an FAA IR and fly IMC. Of course, this would be much easier than getting the JAA equivalent.
Could someone please confirm that FAA C of A checks are less expensive than the CAA equivalent. That could mean big savings with a twin.
Finally, I have read that the FAA have a unique category of license type for the 337 due to it's single axis engine mounting. Any benefits due to this might be worth looking into.
Good luck.
From what I have read about registering an imported US a/c in UK on CAA or FAA register, FAA is far easier. I do not know what you are intending to use the 337 for, but you could get an FAA IR and fly IMC. Of course, this would be much easier than getting the JAA equivalent.
Could someone please confirm that FAA C of A checks are less expensive than the CAA equivalent. That could mean big savings with a twin.
Finally, I have read that the FAA have a unique category of license type for the 337 due to it's single axis engine mounting. Any benefits due to this might be worth looking into.
Good luck.
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If done properly aircraft maintenance is expencive be it FAA or CAA but in the long run it is cheaper to do it properly than than to try to save a few dollars.
The FAA dont demand so much in the way of paperwork and dont charge large fees for everything that they do.
Due to the compleat joke that is the JAA pilot regulations i would advise you to keep the aircraft with the FAA as you will have less hassel with the paperwork both flying and maintenance.
For most people the fact that the FAA IR is not out of site cost wise is the biggest advantage but be warned the ground exams may be easy but the flight test was one of the hardest flying skill tests that i have taken because you dont know what the check airman will ask you to do next , unlike the british IR were you know exactly the form of the test and have spent the last three weeks practicing the whole thing.
The FAA dont demand so much in the way of paperwork and dont charge large fees for everything that they do.
Due to the compleat joke that is the JAA pilot regulations i would advise you to keep the aircraft with the FAA as you will have less hassel with the paperwork both flying and maintenance.
For most people the fact that the FAA IR is not out of site cost wise is the biggest advantage but be warned the ground exams may be easy but the flight test was one of the hardest flying skill tests that i have taken because you dont know what the check airman will ask you to do next , unlike the british IR were you know exactly the form of the test and have spent the last three weeks practicing the whole thing.
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A & C
The question on Caa or Faa is one I have looked at. My thoughts at present are to transfer it to the Caa reg. Mainly down to all the second hand info I have received about certain problems with the legal side, as perceived by other european countries. Including payment of VAT etc. Especially by the French. I was also told it is difficult to find an engineer to carry out the Faa checks etc.
The other advantage for G plate this 337 would have is that it is very original in spec. something I hear can ease a transfer.
Although I would like to carry out a certain mod before bringing it over, that of rear gear door deletion. A fairly major mod !
The question on Caa or Faa is one I have looked at. My thoughts at present are to transfer it to the Caa reg. Mainly down to all the second hand info I have received about certain problems with the legal side, as perceived by other european countries. Including payment of VAT etc. Especially by the French. I was also told it is difficult to find an engineer to carry out the Faa checks etc.
The other advantage for G plate this 337 would have is that it is very original in spec. something I hear can ease a transfer.
Although I would like to carry out a certain mod before bringing it over, that of rear gear door deletion. A fairly major mod !
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The FAA C of A is valid indeffinetely, so you don't have to worry about getting this done every 3 years or whatever it is - just an annual. Also keeping it on the N Reg should save you from paying VAT, there are various companies offering this service for around 1500 GBP I think......
If you want a ferry pilot, I'll do it for free !
Cheers
If you want a ferry pilot, I'll do it for free !
Cheers
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englishal,
Duff info i am afraid, if you import an N reg you STILL have to pay the VAT - a lot of people have tried and failed, and having personally imported 9 aircraft into the UK both fixed and rotary, believe me i have exhausted every conceivable channel to see if it is possible.
The only pointer i would say is make sure that the bill of sale reflects the price of the time - ex a/c not a shiny new one, as that is what the VAT will be based on.
Duff info i am afraid, if you import an N reg you STILL have to pay the VAT - a lot of people have tried and failed, and having personally imported 9 aircraft into the UK both fixed and rotary, believe me i have exhausted every conceivable channel to see if it is possible.
The only pointer i would say is make sure that the bill of sale reflects the price of the time - ex a/c not a shiny new one, as that is what the VAT will be based on.
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If you intend to do eny mods to the aircraft make sure that the mod has an STC this should keep the CAA fees down but remember they charge about £300/hr.
If you intend to keep the aircraft on the "N" register you must pay the VAT and keep the cirtificate in the aircraft for customs inspection also for flights in some europan states you must have a FULL FAA licence a licence based on your UK licence is not recognised but some states.
As for FAA maintenance that should not be a problem talk to ATS at booker 01494 473664 or metair at elstree 0208 207 3702 both companys work FAA aircraft.
If you intend to keep the aircraft on the "N" register you must pay the VAT and keep the cirtificate in the aircraft for customs inspection also for flights in some europan states you must have a FULL FAA licence a licence based on your UK licence is not recognised but some states.
As for FAA maintenance that should not be a problem talk to ATS at booker 01494 473664 or metair at elstree 0208 207 3702 both companys work FAA aircraft.
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Thanks for the info folks
I had already checked the situation on VAT with the dept. They conrmed that even if I keep it on a 'N' number I will still have to pay 17.5 % of the 'value', although they could't tell me how they reach the value and would send me some literature ?
Furthermore, even as a Uk limited company, registered for VAT as we are. If we keep the plane on the 'N' number we will not legally own the asset and therefore cannot claim the VAT back in the normal way on purchases.
To complicate this query even more. I am worried about how they might value the plane. Considering the ammount of money I am going to spend on it in the USA. Mainly the new engines. I know this is only a 1950 kg gross toy and not a 747, but if I keep it on the 'N' number. Can the engines be owned by someone other than the Aircraft owner. ie we own the engines but under the US laws are only a 'benificial' owner of the plane. Paying our VAT as due on the items seperately , but claiming the cost of the engines, plus tax on our VAT return.
Have I hit upon a brilliant idea to avoid paying the £ 3k plus VAT on the engines without gaining it back later. Or is it wishful thinking ? I am also aware I will have to pay VAT on any insurance and transportation costs.
As for the airframe mod. This is the part I am most concerned about. As I have no idea how the Caa treat these issues. (i assume I wont have to worry about it is I keep it on the 'N' number,as it is a faa approved mod.)
The aircraft is currently totally original with only a change in some radios since it was built. But I would really like to get this mod done over there.
The mod involves removal of the rear undercarridge clam shell doors and some actuators and pipes. Replacing only a small fairing into the wheel bay. This reduces the complexity of the system and prevents the negative rate of climb on one engines when cycling the gear.
If this is going to coast an arm and leg, the Faa route is looking more favourable by the day, even with the VAT issue
I had already checked the situation on VAT with the dept. They conrmed that even if I keep it on a 'N' number I will still have to pay 17.5 % of the 'value', although they could't tell me how they reach the value and would send me some literature ?
Furthermore, even as a Uk limited company, registered for VAT as we are. If we keep the plane on the 'N' number we will not legally own the asset and therefore cannot claim the VAT back in the normal way on purchases.
To complicate this query even more. I am worried about how they might value the plane. Considering the ammount of money I am going to spend on it in the USA. Mainly the new engines. I know this is only a 1950 kg gross toy and not a 747, but if I keep it on the 'N' number. Can the engines be owned by someone other than the Aircraft owner. ie we own the engines but under the US laws are only a 'benificial' owner of the plane. Paying our VAT as due on the items seperately , but claiming the cost of the engines, plus tax on our VAT return.
Have I hit upon a brilliant idea to avoid paying the £ 3k plus VAT on the engines without gaining it back later. Or is it wishful thinking ? I am also aware I will have to pay VAT on any insurance and transportation costs.
As for the airframe mod. This is the part I am most concerned about. As I have no idea how the Caa treat these issues. (i assume I wont have to worry about it is I keep it on the 'N' number,as it is a faa approved mod.)
The aircraft is currently totally original with only a change in some radios since it was built. But I would really like to get this mod done over there.
The mod involves removal of the rear undercarridge clam shell doors and some actuators and pipes. Replacing only a small fairing into the wheel bay. This reduces the complexity of the system and prevents the negative rate of climb on one engines when cycling the gear.
If this is going to coast an arm and leg, the Faa route is looking more favourable by the day, even with the VAT issue
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If you keep the aircraft on the "N" plate the CAA will have no involvment in the technical aspects ,however it wont stop them doing a ramp check on you , so remember that to fly IFR in europe the aircraft radio kit must be FM immune despite the fact that it is not an FAA requirment.
The FAA and CAA seem to work together on the checking of british based FAA aircraft and i,v been rampchecked twice by the FAA in the UK ,it was no problem to us as all the paperwork was in order but i,m sure that some might think that the FAA wont take an interest in UK based aircraft ....this is NOT the case !.
The FAA and CAA seem to work together on the checking of british based FAA aircraft and i,v been rampchecked twice by the FAA in the UK ,it was no problem to us as all the paperwork was in order but i,m sure that some might think that the FAA wont take an interest in UK based aircraft ....this is NOT the case !.
