Query Help. Looking for a US School.
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Query Help. Looking for a US School.
As far back as I can remember, I have wanted to learn to fly since. I am finally at a point in my life where I have both the time and the money at the same time.
After reading Flyer Magazine I was thinking of going to several schools including Ormond Beach Aviation. You are the only person I see recommend Ormand Beach. Tell me why I should go to them for my PPL.
Please Reply Soon,
TTF
After reading Flyer Magazine I was thinking of going to several schools including Ormond Beach Aviation. You are the only person I see recommend Ormand Beach. Tell me why I should go to them for my PPL.
Please Reply Soon,
TTF
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Time to Fly,
I can highly recommend Sierra Academy in Oakland, CA, as well as a couple of other schools here in the US. If you are still looking, e-mail me at [email protected] and I can point you in a good direction.
I can highly recommend Sierra Academy in Oakland, CA, as well as a couple of other schools here in the US. If you are still looking, e-mail me at [email protected] and I can point you in a good direction.
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Time to Fly,
Indeed Sierra is a good school, but I found it a bit overpriced.There are other schools that will get you through the ratings for a lot less money and most likely less time.Let`s face it, that Bay Area fog isn`t a lot of fun when you`re not working on your instrument rating.
I`m not going to sit here and bash flight schools.. .But if you mail me I`ll give you a few pointers on where to look, websites, and opinions from some other of my former flightschool pals. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Indeed Sierra is a good school, but I found it a bit overpriced.There are other schools that will get you through the ratings for a lot less money and most likely less time.Let`s face it, that Bay Area fog isn`t a lot of fun when you`re not working on your instrument rating.
I`m not going to sit here and bash flight schools.. .But if you mail me I`ll give you a few pointers on where to look, websites, and opinions from some other of my former flightschool pals. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I think you'll find that "some" US schools will expect you to commit yourself 100% to the course, leaving little time to attend to the needs of your family unless they are very self-sufficient. It might be more practical to bring them out beforehand and send them home before the course starts. It's your call, of course, but you may spend money on a family holiday and a PPL and acheive neither particularly well.
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If you are looking at Florida, you could have a quick look at Pelican Flight Training in North Perry (just out of Miami). I don't think they do the CAA stuff like Ormond Beach do, but they are as good as anyone else, and its not too far from Key West, so your family can go and play there too!
If you start by April, try to get yourself to Sun & Fun at Lakeland. Its well worth a visit - plenty of planes and plenty of aeroplane gossip. If you start in July, get yourself to Oshkosh,WI, for the EAA Air Venture - even more planes and gossip - a great way to spend some days. Florida in the spring is lovely, but in the summer its seriously hot and sticky <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
There's a previous topic covering insurance, which may be useful to you too.
Good luck....
If you start by April, try to get yourself to Sun & Fun at Lakeland. Its well worth a visit - plenty of planes and plenty of aeroplane gossip. If you start in July, get yourself to Oshkosh,WI, for the EAA Air Venture - even more planes and gossip - a great way to spend some days. Florida in the spring is lovely, but in the summer its seriously hot and sticky <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
There's a previous topic covering insurance, which may be useful to you too.
Good luck....
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ps - DO NOT be persuaded to pay up front and, great tho' lots of the flight schools are, watch your money, and the flying hours you do, like a hawk!
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Please excuse me if you have already thought through the US vs UK arguments and decided on the former. The subject has been debated since about 17th December 1903 and there is probably no right answer. Just in case you haven't run through the arguments, however, a few thoughts:
Cost: yes, hourly rates are cheaper in the States, but once you've added on travel/accomodation/use of valuable holiday time exclusively for PPL training/dual time spent after licence issue satisfying a UK club/flying group to rent you their aircraft/let you join the group, the actual costs may not be all that dissimilar.
Weather: yes, it's rubbish here, and drinking all that bad coffee in the club house whilst the rain thunders on the roof is doubtless bad for you, but here is where you will fly in the future, and some of us still somehow manage to rack up 50-150 hours a year, even with basic VMC licences, flying in the UK and Europe. Whilst learning amidst the rain, fog and gales, you make a start on the osmotic process of acquiring weather judgment, sometimes just by talking through the go/no go decision with the instructor on the phone, in the club house, at the hold, even in the air whilst one-eightying in the direction of base.
Tyre kicking: It is difficult to kick a tyre that is 4000 miles away. The way to judge a flying school is to go along and see it, squeeze it, lick it and sniff it. If not happy, bail out, and go looking for another. Difficult to do if you have committed to the big holiday and signed up with the club with the fancy website that you never visited before starting the course.
Hopefully someone else will come along in a minute and put cogent arguments in favour of doing it in the US. As I said, there is probably no right answer....
Cost: yes, hourly rates are cheaper in the States, but once you've added on travel/accomodation/use of valuable holiday time exclusively for PPL training/dual time spent after licence issue satisfying a UK club/flying group to rent you their aircraft/let you join the group, the actual costs may not be all that dissimilar.
Weather: yes, it's rubbish here, and drinking all that bad coffee in the club house whilst the rain thunders on the roof is doubtless bad for you, but here is where you will fly in the future, and some of us still somehow manage to rack up 50-150 hours a year, even with basic VMC licences, flying in the UK and Europe. Whilst learning amidst the rain, fog and gales, you make a start on the osmotic process of acquiring weather judgment, sometimes just by talking through the go/no go decision with the instructor on the phone, in the club house, at the hold, even in the air whilst one-eightying in the direction of base.
Tyre kicking: It is difficult to kick a tyre that is 4000 miles away. The way to judge a flying school is to go along and see it, squeeze it, lick it and sniff it. If not happy, bail out, and go looking for another. Difficult to do if you have committed to the big holiday and signed up with the club with the fancy website that you never visited before starting the course.
Hopefully someone else will come along in a minute and put cogent arguments in favour of doing it in the US. As I said, there is probably no right answer....
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FNG, a lot of very good points well made.
I went to Florida to complete my PPL that I started in the UK. Main reason was that I just didn't seem to be making any headway against the weather. Too much stop start, learn re-learn etc. So I have seen it from both sides.
From my observations in Florida, those poor chaps craming a PPL into 4 weeks were lucky if they knew what day it was. On top of the flying they had to do all the exams and study every evening with very little time to relax and take stock.
I went with the intention of spending 7 days and doing about 15 hours prior to the skill test. I had all my exams and RT test under my belt. However I had not banked on also having to study some of the FAA flight law so that I could satisfy my instructor that I knew how to fly on the right hand side of the road. The 4 week PPL guys also had to do this on top of all the CAA/JAA stuff.
There were so many different practices, RT procedures, circuit joining, method for filing flight plans, classes of airspace etc etc that I would imagine several hours of familiarisation would be required at a UK flight school on return just to get up to speed with the way we fly.
Where did I go? I went to Naples Air Center. I was treated very well, had a keen instructor, the set up was good, well run, and the aircraft were well maintained. I had no complaints.
I went to Florida to complete my PPL that I started in the UK. Main reason was that I just didn't seem to be making any headway against the weather. Too much stop start, learn re-learn etc. So I have seen it from both sides.
From my observations in Florida, those poor chaps craming a PPL into 4 weeks were lucky if they knew what day it was. On top of the flying they had to do all the exams and study every evening with very little time to relax and take stock.
I went with the intention of spending 7 days and doing about 15 hours prior to the skill test. I had all my exams and RT test under my belt. However I had not banked on also having to study some of the FAA flight law so that I could satisfy my instructor that I knew how to fly on the right hand side of the road. The 4 week PPL guys also had to do this on top of all the CAA/JAA stuff.
There were so many different practices, RT procedures, circuit joining, method for filing flight plans, classes of airspace etc etc that I would imagine several hours of familiarisation would be required at a UK flight school on return just to get up to speed with the way we fly.
Where did I go? I went to Naples Air Center. I was treated very well, had a keen instructor, the set up was good, well run, and the aircraft were well maintained. I had no complaints.
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I'm an instructor in the UK and have flown with alot of people who have obtained there PPL in the US. I myself have done alot of hours in America and even though the flying is fantastic and there's no doubting that, it is very different in respect to RT and Airfield joining. The majority of students I have flown with have taken quiet a bit of time adjusting to the Nav, Rt and Airfield procedures in the UK.. .One of my suggestions would be to get your ground exams out the way, then go over to the US and do all the basic flying upto the Nav. If you time it right, come back to a school over here and finish off the course in the summer. Your RT, Nav and even the paperwork will be more tuned to the UK way of doing things. Not suggesting at all that the US is wrong just different.. .Good luck and enjoy. Contact me on [email protected] if you want more info.
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Kitkat
Can't agree with you fully.
Yes there are some differences that are basic. Learning to fly in the US gives you a great deal of basic consistent training. I have flown with a number of people that have done the same and suggest that a more round number is 2-3 hours of differences training. A pilot who knows how to fly and can pass a JAA Skill test can adjust quite easily to a couple of changes in pattern work.
Sometimes I think that some FI's make a greater deal of it because they disagree with training outside the UK. I know of one pilot that went into Elstree and said that he got his PPL in the US and wanted to rent a plane. The FI threw his licence back at him and said "Well that's 15 hours of dual then".
He went to another school and completed 3 hours 10 mins of dual before they let him lose - and that was his choice for more as he wanted to get comfortable with the local are.
[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: Facts Not Fiction Pls ]</p>
Can't agree with you fully.
Yes there are some differences that are basic. Learning to fly in the US gives you a great deal of basic consistent training. I have flown with a number of people that have done the same and suggest that a more round number is 2-3 hours of differences training. A pilot who knows how to fly and can pass a JAA Skill test can adjust quite easily to a couple of changes in pattern work.
Sometimes I think that some FI's make a greater deal of it because they disagree with training outside the UK. I know of one pilot that went into Elstree and said that he got his PPL in the US and wanted to rent a plane. The FI threw his licence back at him and said "Well that's 15 hours of dual then".
He went to another school and completed 3 hours 10 mins of dual before they let him lose - and that was his choice for more as he wanted to get comfortable with the local are.
[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: Facts Not Fiction Pls ]</p>
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Time to Fly -
You haven't said when you are going, but I'm off to Florida (Orlando) mid-April for four weeks to do exactly the same.
The wife and out-laws (erm.. sorry in laws) are coming too so they can have a holiday (the wife can visit the mouse with the big ears and all his favourite haunts plus the big killer whale and the theme park built around him, etc etc).
We've hired a smart (I hope!) three bedroom villa with own pool, double-garage, en-suite golfcourse (ahem, sorry - getting a little too excited now). Cost for that is £1400 for the four weeks, a snip at £350 a week when most villas are nearer the 500 quid mark. And it's only a mile from the airfield...
As for what the FTO is like - I can't comment until mid-May when I get back, so if you are planning on going in the autumn I can let you know whether (or not) to use the same school I'm going to. I have heard lots of things about them (good and bad) but don't feel it's fair to comment until I have experienced it myself (and even then I won't go into print on the website, but feel free to e-mail me direct).
One thing everyone has been saying is that it is just not possible to cram all the study AND flying AND exams into three of four weeks without working until the early hours and missing those huge American-portion meals. So get the ground exams out of the way first (I've done three so far, number four is on Monday and then two more to go - excluding RT - before I depart for the Land of the Free). That way I hope to get the flying done in three weeks and have a week's holiday, and do the usual tourism stuff (I think a shuttle launch is scheduled whilst I'm there).
If you are taking relatives with you it makes sense to deposit them somewhere where there's plenty to do (should be ample in Orlando) so they'll stay out of your hair and let you concentrate on the reason you really went.
Whatever you choose to do and wherever you go, good luck - you are about to embark upon the rest of your life - as a pilot! Which is far better than most people who seem to settle for being a pillock instead...
You haven't said when you are going, but I'm off to Florida (Orlando) mid-April for four weeks to do exactly the same.
The wife and out-laws (erm.. sorry in laws) are coming too so they can have a holiday (the wife can visit the mouse with the big ears and all his favourite haunts plus the big killer whale and the theme park built around him, etc etc).
We've hired a smart (I hope!) three bedroom villa with own pool, double-garage, en-suite golfcourse (ahem, sorry - getting a little too excited now). Cost for that is £1400 for the four weeks, a snip at £350 a week when most villas are nearer the 500 quid mark. And it's only a mile from the airfield...
As for what the FTO is like - I can't comment until mid-May when I get back, so if you are planning on going in the autumn I can let you know whether (or not) to use the same school I'm going to. I have heard lots of things about them (good and bad) but don't feel it's fair to comment until I have experienced it myself (and even then I won't go into print on the website, but feel free to e-mail me direct).
One thing everyone has been saying is that it is just not possible to cram all the study AND flying AND exams into three of four weeks without working until the early hours and missing those huge American-portion meals. So get the ground exams out of the way first (I've done three so far, number four is on Monday and then two more to go - excluding RT - before I depart for the Land of the Free). That way I hope to get the flying done in three weeks and have a week's holiday, and do the usual tourism stuff (I think a shuttle launch is scheduled whilst I'm there).
If you are taking relatives with you it makes sense to deposit them somewhere where there's plenty to do (should be ample in Orlando) so they'll stay out of your hair and let you concentrate on the reason you really went.
Whatever you choose to do and wherever you go, good luck - you are about to embark upon the rest of your life - as a pilot! Which is far better than most people who seem to settle for being a pillock instead...
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I've done training in both UK and USA, and agree with all that's been said. If you fly for fun in the US, you can have a lot of fun. If you try to get a licence there, it will be hard graft.
There are some awful schools there - either lousy aircraft or lousy instructors or financial sharks or several thereof.
I've heard nothing but good about Naples Air Center from folks who've been there. I'm off there in a couple of weeks to do an FAA IR and have a crack at a CPL. More when I get back ;-)
There are some awful schools there - either lousy aircraft or lousy instructors or financial sharks or several thereof.
I've heard nothing but good about Naples Air Center from folks who've been there. I'm off there in a couple of weeks to do an FAA IR and have a crack at a CPL. More when I get back ;-)
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Having flying in the UK and US heres my 2p worth, I got my intial JAA PPL in the US at a school owned by a Brit instructor.
Cost - You will definitely save money! Hours are cheaper and acoomodation is also cheap (I went to California), even taking this into account I saved I lot of money. I went for a month passed in 62.5 hrs and it cost me about £4000, in the UK it would have cost me nearly twice that for the aircraft & extra instructor time required at my local field. On top of this you wont be driving up and down to the airfield to be sent home and wasting time and money...having said this see 'Weather'
Exams - Yes could not agree more. If you are going to go over there then have all your exams out of the way BEFORE you show up! I did it with the JAA PPL and also when I did my FAA IR, if you arent going to then add another couple to your course time!!!
Weather - I cannot speak for Florida as never flown there but I think there are a few misconceptions about the weather in the US. Flying round CA you can basically find whatever weather you want to fly in, whilst PPLs were marvelling about the weather around Longbeach we went off finding A/Ps with dodgy wethaer to practice actual instrument approaches into instead of being under the hood all the time - bloody good fun! They even have ski resorts you can fly into, its pretty weird being sat on a snow covered mountain looking down at blazing hot desert...
RT - yes it is different but if you can handle the RT at somewhere like Longbeach which has 5 active runways then I think you can handle a grass strip somewhere in the UK countryside <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> ) No one I have spoken to has had any trouble picking it up, it just like the first time you drive a car abroad on the otherside of the road - you get off to a bit of a shaky start but then you get on with it.
Schools - A big point brought up here, you have a disadvantage that you cant go and tyre kick a school before you sign up! There is no real answer to this one apart from asking on here or other boards what people thought of various schools.
Arrival back in the UK - There is , quite frankly, a lot of cr@p spoken about this area. On my return I had two checkflight for two clubs I wanted to hire aircraft from, the max time was 1h 15m, both clubs were quite happy to hire aircraft to me. The '15 hrs dual' mentality is basically perpetuated, as stated before, by instructors who do not the fact that students have taken their money outside the UK to learn. I have heard instructors state that the quality of training is worse in the US but there again I have watched UK trained pilots bounce their aircraft down the runway and commit airspace violations. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
There are pros and cons to the UK & US but wherever you end up you have a lot of fun!
Julian.
Cost - You will definitely save money! Hours are cheaper and acoomodation is also cheap (I went to California), even taking this into account I saved I lot of money. I went for a month passed in 62.5 hrs and it cost me about £4000, in the UK it would have cost me nearly twice that for the aircraft & extra instructor time required at my local field. On top of this you wont be driving up and down to the airfield to be sent home and wasting time and money...having said this see 'Weather'
Exams - Yes could not agree more. If you are going to go over there then have all your exams out of the way BEFORE you show up! I did it with the JAA PPL and also when I did my FAA IR, if you arent going to then add another couple to your course time!!!
Weather - I cannot speak for Florida as never flown there but I think there are a few misconceptions about the weather in the US. Flying round CA you can basically find whatever weather you want to fly in, whilst PPLs were marvelling about the weather around Longbeach we went off finding A/Ps with dodgy wethaer to practice actual instrument approaches into instead of being under the hood all the time - bloody good fun! They even have ski resorts you can fly into, its pretty weird being sat on a snow covered mountain looking down at blazing hot desert...
RT - yes it is different but if you can handle the RT at somewhere like Longbeach which has 5 active runways then I think you can handle a grass strip somewhere in the UK countryside <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> ) No one I have spoken to has had any trouble picking it up, it just like the first time you drive a car abroad on the otherside of the road - you get off to a bit of a shaky start but then you get on with it.
Schools - A big point brought up here, you have a disadvantage that you cant go and tyre kick a school before you sign up! There is no real answer to this one apart from asking on here or other boards what people thought of various schools.
Arrival back in the UK - There is , quite frankly, a lot of cr@p spoken about this area. On my return I had two checkflight for two clubs I wanted to hire aircraft from, the max time was 1h 15m, both clubs were quite happy to hire aircraft to me. The '15 hrs dual' mentality is basically perpetuated, as stated before, by instructors who do not the fact that students have taken their money outside the UK to learn. I have heard instructors state that the quality of training is worse in the US but there again I have watched UK trained pilots bounce their aircraft down the runway and commit airspace violations. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
There are pros and cons to the UK & US but wherever you end up you have a lot of fun!
Julian.
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Good luck with the trip 'Time to Fly'. I'm jealous because I can never seem to find the time and money simultaneously, the same problem it seems you’ve had.
Just to slightly hijack the thread, I need some advice on a similar subject. I'll be over in the States (Arizona) in March on a family holiday but having never flown over there I thought it would be good to go up for a couple of hours, just to get used to what it's like over there, before committing to an intensive course.
I am only about 10 hours into my PPL, and I don't want to be accused of running before I can walk, but it just seems too good an opportunity to miss really. I thought I'd do perhaps 4 or 5 hours over a couple of days. I have solo’d but I know I would need an FAA medical to do so over there – this isn’t really what I want to do anyway.
Three specific questions:
1. The only schools I've identified do not do JAA certified training. Am I right in assuming that any time I fly can be logged, but not towards my 45hr requirement for the JAA PPL? If so this is fine.
2. With the current security situation, does anyone who's been recently know how easy I'll find it to just walk up to a school and fly the same or next day. Obviously I'll have ID etc. but are there any other requirements?
3. Does anyone from that part of the world have any specific recommendations or where to go (or avoid)?
I'm aware of all the UK vs. USA arguments so don't want to go into that. Basically I want to find out for myself and have a bit of fun while I'm at it.
Just to slightly hijack the thread, I need some advice on a similar subject. I'll be over in the States (Arizona) in March on a family holiday but having never flown over there I thought it would be good to go up for a couple of hours, just to get used to what it's like over there, before committing to an intensive course.
I am only about 10 hours into my PPL, and I don't want to be accused of running before I can walk, but it just seems too good an opportunity to miss really. I thought I'd do perhaps 4 or 5 hours over a couple of days. I have solo’d but I know I would need an FAA medical to do so over there – this isn’t really what I want to do anyway.
Three specific questions:
1. The only schools I've identified do not do JAA certified training. Am I right in assuming that any time I fly can be logged, but not towards my 45hr requirement for the JAA PPL? If so this is fine.
2. With the current security situation, does anyone who's been recently know how easy I'll find it to just walk up to a school and fly the same or next day. Obviously I'll have ID etc. but are there any other requirements?
3. Does anyone from that part of the world have any specific recommendations or where to go (or avoid)?
I'm aware of all the UK vs. USA arguments so don't want to go into that. Basically I want to find out for myself and have a bit of fun while I'm at it.
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If you can fly in the US, you can fly in the UK ! Laws of Physics don't change from the US to Europe....Besides, if you learn to fly in the US then you'll be used to their way of doing things, and it'll make it a hell of a lot less stressful if you ever go back for a flying holiday.....
Don't be put off by UK Instructors trying to protect their jobs by offering 'helpful' advice like 'you will need x hrs to convert....blah blah...'. When I first joined a club in the UK, as we were taxying out to the runway for my dual check, the instructor asked me where I learned to fly. When I said the US, his response was 'oh...we don't like those here....'...(tosser sprang to mind).... When we landed his response was 'you flew very well...'
RT...not a problem. Learned at Long Beach, and did my dual check in a 'busy' class D airport....oooh...it was so scary, think there must have been at least 10 other people on the radio during my checkout and I think a 737 even came in to land!
cheers
Don't be put off by UK Instructors trying to protect their jobs by offering 'helpful' advice like 'you will need x hrs to convert....blah blah...'. When I first joined a club in the UK, as we were taxying out to the runway for my dual check, the instructor asked me where I learned to fly. When I said the US, his response was 'oh...we don't like those here....'...(tosser sprang to mind).... When we landed his response was 'you flew very well...'
RT...not a problem. Learned at Long Beach, and did my dual check in a 'busy' class D airport....oooh...it was so scary, think there must have been at least 10 other people on the radio during my checkout and I think a 737 even came in to land!
cheers
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As was said, the US v UK for PPL debate has been well-rehearsed here and for decades !. .It attracts, also, the ('email me') recruiters.. .I am not recommending anywhere but these points may assist.
If you can't devote 3 or 4 weeks to a course and have plenty of money, learning in the U.K. is the only way, despite the weather and other problems.
In my experience, most people who have a problem would have it anywhere, although being in a different country/culture might make it worse. In any case, gaining a PPL in 3 weeks will, obviously, require reasonable ability, high commitment and plenty of effort. Even with good preparation, it isn't going to be a holiday, although you may be in Florida or California, so just forget bars, the beach and any bonking until you've passed.
I'm sure it's true that a few do it in 2 weeks or less but, if you have the time, wouldn't the school allow you to take longer than 3 or, even, 4 weeks as it would only require booking (and paying for) extra accommodation?
I believe you would need plenty of time or have to be very clever to perform properly on a combined PPL course/family holiday.
Ham said - "some" US schools will expect you to commit yourself 100% to the course. Unless you are paying by the hour (in which case they don't care how much you spend !) wouldn't any school anywhere expect you to be 100% commited to their course?
If you can't devote 3 or 4 weeks to a course and have plenty of money, learning in the U.K. is the only way, despite the weather and other problems.
In my experience, most people who have a problem would have it anywhere, although being in a different country/culture might make it worse. In any case, gaining a PPL in 3 weeks will, obviously, require reasonable ability, high commitment and plenty of effort. Even with good preparation, it isn't going to be a holiday, although you may be in Florida or California, so just forget bars, the beach and any bonking until you've passed.
I'm sure it's true that a few do it in 2 weeks or less but, if you have the time, wouldn't the school allow you to take longer than 3 or, even, 4 weeks as it would only require booking (and paying for) extra accommodation?
I believe you would need plenty of time or have to be very clever to perform properly on a combined PPL course/family holiday.
Ham said - "some" US schools will expect you to commit yourself 100% to the course. Unless you are paying by the hour (in which case they don't care how much you spend !) wouldn't any school anywhere expect you to be 100% commited to their course?
