PA-28 or PA-38?
Guest
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PA-28 or PA-38?
Anyone got strong feelings about which is better to learn on, the PA-28 or -38? So far, my lessons (both of them) have been in the Tomahawk, which is, as far as I can tell, fine. However, I can barely tell one end of an aeroplane from the other, so I thought I'd book the next two in the Warrior to see what the difference is. Cost is £20 more p/h, but given the cost in the first place that isn't such a big deal.
Anyone more experienced - i.e. pretty much everyone - got any thoughts about the two?
Cheers.
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The only comment I would make, is that most schools regard the Cherokee/Warrior as a more complex aeroplane, and therefore would normally consiider a succesful check ride/GFT/NFT as sufficient evidence to allow you to fly BOTH the Warrior and the Traumahawk.....er, um , sorry, Tomahawk. If you do it the other way round, then a further check flight would probably be required, although dont quote me on that. Secondly, get familiar with the type you will fly most.....It is better IMHO to use the 4 seater, as you will probably be carrying pax? It gives more flexibility.
Anyhow, both are good solid aeroplanes. Have fun,
Tailwinds,
Sky
Down, three greens, turning final
Anyhow, both are good solid aeroplanes. Have fun,
Tailwinds,
Sky
Down, three greens, turning final
Guest
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All I would say is save your money while you are training and stick with the Tomahawk. 50 hrs at £20 cheaper per hour is a lot of flying money saved while doing your licence. I learned in one and loved it. The £1000 saved would pay for an IMC rating too!
Guest
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I would suggest the first half of your training in the Tomahawk, and then switching to the PA28 for the cross country work and tests.
Although not required in the UK, get your instructor to show you some full spins in the Tomahawk, and then try it yourself under his supervision. You won't regret it.
No spins allowed in the PA28.
Although not required in the UK, get your instructor to show you some full spins in the Tomahawk, and then try it yourself under his supervision. You won't regret it.
No spins allowed in the PA28.
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Before starting my PPL training I had a trial flight in the PA28. My instructor said that I should really learn in the PA38 because once I have mastered that then going to the PA28 should be a doddle. I noticed that the PA38 seemed alot more 'twitchy' than the PA28 and so should teach me better control instincts. Maybe I am talking crap?? Either way, I really like the PA38. First solo on Tuesday possibly if the weather permits. OH **** !
Regards,
Simon
PS. I'll just get checked out on the PA28 once my I have got my PPL.
Regards,
Simon
PS. I'll just get checked out on the PA28 once my I have got my PPL.
Guest
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Some good thoughts chaps - thanks.
Toppers: Hadn't thought of the £20 a time in that sort of way. Good thinking.
And good luck, Simon W. Right now the thought of going solo scares the sh*t out of me ("Me, alone? in an aeroplane? With MY reputation? Whatever were they thinking...?"
) but that'll change. Hope the weather works out.
Oh, and why do people call it the Traumahawk? Just wondering...
(Edited for general UBBcode ineptness)
[This message has been edited by Evo7 (edited 14 May 2001).]
Toppers: Hadn't thought of the £20 a time in that sort of way. Good thinking.
And good luck, Simon W. Right now the thought of going solo scares the sh*t out of me ("Me, alone? in an aeroplane? With MY reputation? Whatever were they thinking...?"
) but that'll change. Hope the weather works out.Oh, and why do people call it the Traumahawk? Just wondering...
(Edited for general UBBcode ineptness)
[This message has been edited by Evo7 (edited 14 May 2001).]
Guest
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Traumahawk is just a nickname. Nothing to be scared of, honest little trainer.
Simon W's instructor is correct.
At the end of each week, tally your hours, multiply by 50 pounds then trot off to the bank to put this amount in your advanced training account.
The PA28 will be an easy and pleasant next stage.
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solly ocker she's chocka
Simon W's instructor is correct.
At the end of each week, tally your hours, multiply by 50 pounds then trot off to the bank to put this amount in your advanced training account.
The PA28 will be an easy and pleasant next stage.
------------------
solly ocker she's chocka
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Hi Fokker! Thanks for your posting elsewhere!!
I think one reason the Tomahawk got the name Traumahawk is due to its spin characteristics. There were a number of fatal stall/spin accidents in the States with instructors on board. Also, from memory, if you read the flight manual, you will see that the potential loss of height per rotation is actually quoted - it's high!
There were two flow strip modifications, one set inboard, and one set outboard in response to the accidents. (I am bewildered as to how the outboard set helps - its a long, long way out. Anyone know?)
Anyway, these modifications tame the stall and spin characteristics. You will note in the manual that there are different stall speeds quoted dependent on whether the flow strips have been fitted or not. Without the flow strips there can be a viscious wing drop at the stall.
The Tomahawk is a fun plane to spin, but I have only done it on a plane fitted with both sets of flow strips. Not sure I would want to give it a go on one without.
Also, with two persons of medium weight, to have the weight in the utility category, means that you can't carry much fuel. Please don't spin the Tomahawk outside its utility envelope!!!
[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 14 May 2001).]
I think one reason the Tomahawk got the name Traumahawk is due to its spin characteristics. There were a number of fatal stall/spin accidents in the States with instructors on board. Also, from memory, if you read the flight manual, you will see that the potential loss of height per rotation is actually quoted - it's high!
There were two flow strip modifications, one set inboard, and one set outboard in response to the accidents. (I am bewildered as to how the outboard set helps - its a long, long way out. Anyone know?)
Anyway, these modifications tame the stall and spin characteristics. You will note in the manual that there are different stall speeds quoted dependent on whether the flow strips have been fitted or not. Without the flow strips there can be a viscious wing drop at the stall.
The Tomahawk is a fun plane to spin, but I have only done it on a plane fitted with both sets of flow strips. Not sure I would want to give it a go on one without.
Also, with two persons of medium weight, to have the weight in the utility category, means that you can't carry much fuel. Please don't spin the Tomahawk outside its utility envelope!!!
[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 14 May 2001).]
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Do it all on a PA38, its probably the best 2 seat basic trainer commonly available and I have taught on them all. A nice option if you can afford it is to do all the PPL on a PA38 then do an IMC on a PA28 as they tend to be IFR equipped and you are combining a rating course with a type conversion course and then you can utilise the 4 seats for taking friends flying for petrol money.
Good luck,
WWW
Good luck,
WWW
Guest
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Hi,
I agree with GRpr - start with the PA38, and then move on to the PA28 at a later stage.
I have nearly completed PPL at BAFC (Wycombe) where the fleet consists mainly of these two types. I found the PA38 a great trainer, and slightly cheaper. I soloed in it, and stuck with it up until the cross-countries.
I started with PA28 on the first cross country (the conversion is very straightforward). The benefits are:
a) PA28 is faster, and therefore not necessarily more expensive on a long distance flight (this has been proven when another guy doing the same X-country as me on the same day at the same time, and he got back later than me and his bill was slightly higher!);
b) When I get my PPL, I don't want to fly alone! I want to be able to take my wife, kids, friends etc. So you'll eventually need to convert to a 4-seater if you have this in mind anyway.
c) The PA28's (at least those at BAFC) are better equipped for X-country flights. They have DME (not essential, but handy), an ADF with a timer/stopwatch built-in (again not essential, but handy), and a HEADING BUG on the DI, which I find invaluable! One less thing to remember! (having said that, I have once or twice set it to the wrong spot on the dial - but that's what the gross error check is for, right!?).
All in all, I have found both Piper a/c fabulous and reckon they are a great choice of trainer.
Hope this helps,
Andy
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"Andy sang, Andy watched, Andy waited 'til his billy boiled..." (It was written for me!)
[This message has been edited to fix the typo - yes I meant that PA28 is faster! (edited 14 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Aussie Andy (edited 14 May 2001).]
I agree with GRpr - start with the PA38, and then move on to the PA28 at a later stage.
I have nearly completed PPL at BAFC (Wycombe) where the fleet consists mainly of these two types. I found the PA38 a great trainer, and slightly cheaper. I soloed in it, and stuck with it up until the cross-countries.
I started with PA28 on the first cross country (the conversion is very straightforward). The benefits are:
a) PA28 is faster, and therefore not necessarily more expensive on a long distance flight (this has been proven when another guy doing the same X-country as me on the same day at the same time, and he got back later than me and his bill was slightly higher!);
b) When I get my PPL, I don't want to fly alone! I want to be able to take my wife, kids, friends etc. So you'll eventually need to convert to a 4-seater if you have this in mind anyway.
c) The PA28's (at least those at BAFC) are better equipped for X-country flights. They have DME (not essential, but handy), an ADF with a timer/stopwatch built-in (again not essential, but handy), and a HEADING BUG on the DI, which I find invaluable! One less thing to remember! (having said that, I have once or twice set it to the wrong spot on the dial - but that's what the gross error check is for, right!?).
All in all, I have found both Piper a/c fabulous and reckon they are a great choice of trainer.
Hope this helps,
Andy
------------------
"Andy sang, Andy watched, Andy waited 'til his billy boiled..." (It was written for me!)
[This message has been edited to fix the typo - yes I meant that PA28 is faster! (edited 14 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Aussie Andy (edited 14 May 2001).]
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Definitley PA28 ..... I flew both during my training and the PA28 is certainly a much friendlier aircraft to fly than its PA38 relation. If you can afford it, go PA28, it will teach you how to land properly as well, because the flare will seem to go on for ever during the early stages of your landing training. QXC's are also much less stressful since the PA28 is a very stable aircraft unlike the PA38 which constantly twitches about. 8-)
Aussie Andy I must correct you on one important point :
re: PA38 faster .... Andy, the PA28 is faster, its a bigger aircraft with a bigger engine, it climbs at 79 IAS, descends at 70 IAS and cruises happily at 100 IAS (or even a little more). The PA38 (if memory serves) will only climb at 70 IAS, descend at 70 IAS and is much happier cruising around 90 or 95 at a push. Your account of "the other guy" could be influenced by many factors, and you have not taken these into account from what I can tell.
The PA28 is great, especially at the later stages of the course. However, if you do train on a PA28, I would strongly advise everyone to get their instructor to take them for a SSAT lesson in a PA38, it is useful to see how different aircraft react.
TTFN
Aussie Andy I must correct you on one important point :
re: PA38 faster .... Andy, the PA28 is faster, its a bigger aircraft with a bigger engine, it climbs at 79 IAS, descends at 70 IAS and cruises happily at 100 IAS (or even a little more). The PA38 (if memory serves) will only climb at 70 IAS, descend at 70 IAS and is much happier cruising around 90 or 95 at a push. Your account of "the other guy" could be influenced by many factors, and you have not taken these into account from what I can tell.
The PA28 is great, especially at the later stages of the course. However, if you do train on a PA28, I would strongly advise everyone to get their instructor to take them for a SSAT lesson in a PA38, it is useful to see how different aircraft react.
TTFN
Guest
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Aparently during a spin the tail of the PA38 flaps from side to side like a fish on speed - not that I ever turned around to look at it, as I was too preoccupied with trying to convert the view of 'all green' out front to my preferred 'green at the bottom, blue on top'...
But I really did enjoy flying the Tomahawk and think it's a great little trainer - and being a glutton for punishment even did my IMC/Night ratings in one too!
But I really did enjoy flying the Tomahawk and think it's a great little trainer - and being a glutton for punishment even did my IMC/Night ratings in one too!